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Old 07-20-2016, 06:15 PM   #101
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The BUZZ: What’s with Gerber’s ‘Death Spiral?’ | RV Business
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:42 PM   #102
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Talking I am not so sure...

The author of the blog is preaching to the choir. Just reading here, many examples are given that are just horrible. I communicate with members that have displayed the bad product or construction. Some go into detail with photos to prove it. It is a horrible circumstance to be in.

People/customers vote with their feet. If it is bad they will not go there again. I cannot believe the industry is based on one time sales. The one and done plan is not a business model.

I have read member posts that have been in those horrible situations themselves with some crappy things from the factory or dealer. They do share how to handle it yourself. If a member has hit the wall of crappy service or response, look for these guys. Not hard to figure out the complainers that quit right there and those that lived it and survived.

A majority of post answers I read here are members reaching out to share what they have done to resolve an issue. Warnings and advice make this place a resource.

I cannot begin to think that every member here has a POS. Many have bought the product again.

I am just having another knee jerk reaction.

My wife requires that I have a disclaimer that states that I am in no way representing her thoughts or views.

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Old 07-20-2016, 07:46 PM   #103
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[QUOTE=Wobbles;1265198]e horrible situations themselves
I cannot begin to think that every member here has a POS. Many have bought the product again.

I am just having another knee jerk reaction.

My wife requires that I have a disclaimer that states that I am in no way representing her thoughts or views.





Bob,

You are so right!! The few that complain will be the loudest yet the silent majority are the ones that are happy with there TT, FW or MH and the pleasure they have camping or RVing.

I believe this thread has run its course and should be closed.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:05 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
We certainly have flat rates for some items, but we also know some things take time.

The other items you mention are overhead. I have the same thing...when a supplier part fails, they pay for the part (occasionally labor)...but what I mark up all those parts is what pays the overhead. Now, if I have a supplier that is eating up all my overhead in an unbalanced manner...guess what, I change suppliers or get a better part. Same thing dealers do. If a product comes in with too many issues and is costing them too much in overhead support, they should drop the product.
the only ones that eat it with flat rate are the techs . they simply do not get paid . and then some flat rates are fair but many are not . when you get all your cheap faucets from china there bound to go bad . call a plumber to replace it cost 129.00 pay the tech flat rate at 12 mins to replace that same faucet he gets $3.00 . not the tech fault cheap faucets are being used . but he gets stuck losing an hr of time for $3.00 no wonder dealers can't find qualified techs . no wonder the RV manufactures can't fill the labor force . the only thing that matters is how much profit can we make and how can we get more for less .
I'll never work for a dealer again 5 months was enough last winter . i mean why should anybody work for free . now i charge full rate . people are happy cause it cost less then going to a dealer . If it's a warranty item i let the owners try to collect I get paid my rate . i won't do it and it will get worse with dealers because you can't get quality techs that knows plumbing , electrical , HVAC systems , carpentry , supension, propane systems , boiler systems , appliances ETC ETC. for $20 to $30 bucks an hr and flat rate at that .
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:14 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by B and B View Post
I believe this thread has run its course and should be closed.

You are aware that no one is twisting your arm to follow this thread?
Based on the amount of views I believe it has not run its course.
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Old 07-21-2016, 06:33 AM   #106
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Is this Russia or Venezuela?

[QUOTE=B and B;1265204]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobbles View Post
e horrible situations themselves
I cannot begin to think that every member here has a POS. Many have bought the product again.

I am just having another knee jerk reaction.

My wife requires that I have a disclaimer that states that I am in no way representing her thoughts or views.





Bob,

You are so right!! The few that complain will be the loudest yet the silent majority are the ones that are happy with there TT, FW or MH and the pleasure they have camping or RVing.

I believe this thread has run its course and should be closed.
You don't like the subject matter or the comments so you want the thread closed?
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Old 07-21-2016, 07:07 AM   #107
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[QUOTE=KatanaPilot;1265446]
Quote:
Originally Posted by B and B View Post

You don't like the subject matter or the comments so you want the thread closed?

Excellent point, for those who are advocates for censorship:

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Old 07-21-2016, 07:34 AM   #108
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[QUOTE=B and B;1265204]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobbles View Post
e horrible situations themselves
I cannot begin to think that every member here has a POS. Many have bought the product again.

I am just having another knee jerk reaction.

My wife requires that I have a disclaimer that states that I am in no way representing her thoughts or views.





Bob,

You are so right!! The few that complain will be the loudest yet the silent majority are the ones that are happy with there TT, FW or MH and the pleasure they have camping or RVing.

I believe this thread has run its course and should be closed.
Brian (and others)

Not sure the thread should be closed - I am enjoying reading Bclemens forthright replies -- refreshing that a Forest River rep is actively participating in the forum (Thanks Bclemens!!)

I DO think that the 2000 lb. elephant in the room DOES need to be addressed - and simply put: why do people think that a $20,000 RV needs to have the fit and finish of a $100,000 one?

RV manufacturers can only do so much and still make a profit - you really do get what you pay for.

Having said that, I really DO wish that the RV industry can move forward to adopt automobile industry-like standards whereby dealerships are held accountable by the manufacturer. Only when this happens can buyers be assured that the product they purchase will be adequately warranted.

THIS is the next big thing that the RVIA should address if they want to be seen as anything more than a $165 decal added to the purchase price of a RV.
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Old 07-21-2016, 07:51 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevejahr View Post
Sacred cows... What I believe:

1. Our society overall is more interested in getting things as cheap as possible. I do it much of the time and so does everybody else. This is NOT an RV industry issue.
2. Our society overall is more interested in bells and whistles than functionality. This too is NOT an RV industry issue.
3. Free market economics mean that manufacturers are trying their best to offer the product that will sell the most by balancing features and price. They are selling what the market seems to want, after all if you have complaints you must have chosen and bought the product.
4. Ditto for dealers. Again you chose where to purchase and could have gone somewhere else.
5. The internet will always have 100x more detracting opinions than supporting opinions for *anything*. While there are problem units how many units have no problems? We will NEVER know but everyone is sure they must be rare just because you do not hear about them.
6. Today's RVs are more of a little house and, well, have you bought a new house? I have bought a few and they all had issues not unlike many of the RVs.

My RV is not perfect but has never been in to the dealer. I don't take it to the dealer because they are a couple hours away and because I am a throwback to another time and believe in fixing stuff myself. I do not have to pay myself so I know I can often do it better than having somebody else do it who may care more about fast than right (see #1 above). And I like learning about how stuff works or is put together. I would probably be a good RV service tech because I know at least something about most of the systems in an RV, but I doubt the pay/income would meet my current standard of living. Maybe someday when my high tech gig runs out

That reminds me, I need to fix that front power stabilizer jack that I took the motor out of...

Death Spiral my butt.
Agreed
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Old 07-21-2016, 08:11 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by northstar1960 View Post
the only ones that eat it with flat rate are the techs . they simply do not get paid . and then some flat rates are fair but many are not . when you get all your cheap faucets from china there bound to go bad . call a plumber to replace it cost 129.00 pay the tech flat rate at 12 mins to replace that same faucet he gets $3.00 . not the tech fault cheap faucets are being used . but he gets stuck losing an hr of time for $3.00 no wonder dealers can't find qualified techs . no wonder the RV manufactures can't fill the labor force . the only thing that matters is how much profit can we make and how can we get more for less .
I'll never work for a dealer again 5 months was enough last winter . i mean why should anybody work for free . now i charge full rate . people are happy cause it cost less then going to a dealer . If it's a warranty item i let the owners try to collect I get paid my rate . i won't do it and it will get worse with dealers because you can't get quality techs that knows plumbing , electrical , HVAC systems , carpentry , supension, propane systems , boiler systems , appliances ETC ETC. for $20 to $30 bucks an hr and flat rate at that .
Northstar, I applaud your hourly rate of $20-30 a hour. Where do you live? You are my tech for life!!

As I get to the end of my career (I retire next Year) service fees are yet another area that irritates the 'grumpy old man in me'

How is it that a RV dealer (or plumber, electrician, auto mechanic or other service tech) justify their hourly labor rate? $125 a hour for repair services? Really? REALLY?

Our son Brian, BSRN, CCRN and soon to be Nurse Practitioner makes $29/hr. with shift differential. As a CRNP, he will boost that salary to $53/hr. 7 years of college education & student loans to repay.

So a person who saves lives in a Emergency Room (maybe the life of you, your wife, or your child!) Makes 1/2 the pay of a trade school trained technician?!?

Really? REALLY!?

(Yes I realize that RV dealerships pay techs crap, but independent techs, electricians & plumbers still charge the same rates)


(And before someone tries to justify those outrageous salaries - don't forget that the medical profession writ large is vastly overpriced in my opinion as well!)

All I am doing here is addressing the issue of fair wages for services preformed.

/rant

(Northstar - at $20-30/hr. I believe you are charging a fair rate for services performed so this rant is NOT directed toward you!)
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