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Old 07-18-2016, 07:20 PM   #81
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Now that was interesting reading.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:26 PM   #82
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Can they now?

RV Industry Death Spiral – Part 6: Associations can influence change | RV Daily Report

Here is a cut and paste of the most interesting couple of paragraphs in the latest offering.


"For the reasons alluded to in my other columns – the biggies being inability to get RVs serviced and product quality – the RV lifestyle is a dream of many until they buy one and run into the problems that force them out of the lifestyle as the fun dissipates.

RVIA is in the prime position as the leader of the industry’s manufacturers to dictate product quality as part of the seal requirements. Like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, an RVIA seal should convey to consumers that the RV has been inspected, tested and is ready to be used. However, the seal only indicates that it has been constructed according to RVIA’s standards.

However, people cannot review RVIA’s standards, nor are they offered for sale on the association’s website. Therefore consumers really don’t know whether the RVs they buy are built to those standards. Some of the standards are available through other organizations, like the National Fire Protection Association. But, there is no one central location where consumers can find the standards dictating RV construction."
RVIA standards are a joke . it' only real purpose is to create an illusion of quality or that safe plumbing , electrical , building standards are being met and WE know they are not . it's nothing more then a slush fund for RV manufactures to say they meet certain requirements . WE either need federal requirements or an outside entity to set up something
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:30 PM   #83
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I can say we have owned 4 RVs overs the years 22' to 36' Last two are 5th wheels. None were in the dealer more than a day or so and have had no major issues. I will say the older Terry was the worst quality but that was almost 30 years ago.

Our dealer has changed brands several times due to issues. (Not all Forest River)

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Old 07-18-2016, 07:32 PM   #84
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That's the tricky part. For sure, we discuss with them the issue, what went wrong and encourage them to involve us sooner in the future. We can send out a service rep to do training, offer in house training, be more proactive on our end in asking more questions. I think we have given the consumer more direct access to get in touch with us before it becomes a problem. We send a letter with every unit asking the customer to contact us directly if their coach is out of service too long. While we all wish there was one, there is no silver bullet. Some state laws give us little to no authority to force a dealer to do anything.

Sad part is we sometimes see this wth really big, previously good dealers. I think just like a lot of RV related things, the infrastructure is taxed. Not enough qualified staff to handle the issues as they should be handled.

My immediate response has been to raise prices so we can put in the best components we can, pay employees more and provide the service people expect. We'll see how that goes.
Not fighting you. I don't even have a motorhome and I search for every word you say. I appreciate your input here vastly.

But........um..........I'm no lawyer, but if you have a contract, either it's written poorly and too unilaterally on dealer's side, which is your fault......or he's breaching it. I am having a hard time (though NOT disputing you, just being incredulous) that any state law stops you from taking hard, hard measures against some of these dealers I read about.

Sorta like interstate entrance ramps.........those, and RV dealers......should be about 2 in every state. Lots of exits, but only two entrances! Things would run a lot smoother.........

And yes, I do understand the direct relationship between overall quality and pricing.

But thank you for all your input.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:11 PM   #85
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That's the tricky part. For sure, we discuss with them the issue, what went wrong and encourage them to involve us sooner in the future. We can send out a service rep to do training, offer in house training, be more proactive on our end in asking more questions. I think we have given the consumer more direct access to get in touch with us before it becomes a problem. We send a letter with every unit asking the customer to contact us directly if their coach is out of service too long. While we all wish there was one, there is no silver bullet. Some state laws give us little to no authority to force a dealer to do anything.

Sad part is we sometimes see this wth really big, previously good dealers. I think just like a lot of RV related things, the infrastructure is taxed. Not enough qualified staff to handle the issues as they should be handled.

My immediate response has been to raise prices so we can put in the best components we can, pay employees more and provide the service people expect. We'll see how that goes.
I can't help but ask - is this because of the record numbers of RV's being produced or record numbers of RV's with issues? In the automotive industry, I don't see the dealer service infrastructure being taxed - despite record numbers of vehicles being sold. Perhaps this is because the domestic automotive industry has finally embraced quality being job one (and maybe because the lemon laws actually have teeth). And why is the RV industry lobbying so hard against lemon laws?
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:11 PM   #86
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I can only speak for our division, we do allow for diagnostic time. However we also expect the dealer to call when they are stumped and have certified techs that can diagnose problems in a timely manner. It irritates me
When a customer calls, frustrated because the dealer failed to repair their issue after three tries. When we check the file, not one warranty claim was filed, (dealer behind) and we have no calls. We end up fixing it ourselves to try and salvage the situation and have to repair their repair in most cases.
you do ! what division ? not once was diag ever offer for me for any unit any brand . did get some from thor and LCI . it's not the techs . it's the system put in force by the manufactures . most all diag is done in timely manners. Techs spend more time taking photos , ordering parts that always seem to be wrong or broken and waiting for warranty approval . of course it could all be different if the good work started at the factory and there was some actual quality control . maybe it's the way the workers are paid , rush rush rush get-er done . as always it's bad management not a lack of skilled workers
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:34 PM   #87
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That's the tricky part. For sure, we discuss with them the issue, what went wrong and encourage them to involve us sooner in the future. We can send out a service rep to do training, offer in house training, be more proactive on our end in asking more questions. I think we have given the consumer more direct access to get in touch with us before it becomes a problem. We send a letter with every unit asking the customer to contact us directly if their coach is out of service too long. While we all wish there was one, there is no silver bullet. Some state laws give us little to no authority to force a dealer to do anything.

Sad part is we sometimes see this wth really big, previously good dealers. I think just like a lot of RV related things, the infrastructure is taxed. Not enough qualified staff to handle the issues as they should be handled.

My immediate response has been to raise prices so we can put in the best components we can, pay employees more and provide the service people expect. We'll see how that goes.
I have to hand it to you for coming on here and listening to the issues . your a brave man . nothing i write is directed to you personally . thanks for being here
Now i know the dealers have major management issues . but as a manufacture they can control the dealer . simply do not let them sale their units . they either fall inline , offer the good tech service . it's the after the sale that counts and service should be a # 1 priority .now you don't want to give up market share by losing dealers . but the techs can't keep up with all the warranty work .Example we had 3 winniebagos adventures come it all brand new and the slides didn't work on any of them . the techs shouldn't be seeing these units for at least 3 to 5 yrs .
and yes by all means pay the techs and workers more . charge some more for the units and make a little less profit a little give and take . but what manufacture will take the step to offer a first class unit for a little more bucks . back to not wanting to lose market share !
i'm sure the market will bear the extra cost of a well built ,properly built , clean solid unit where things actually work .
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:31 AM   #88
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I find all of this very informative, interesting and inspiring.
(I'm sorry if you take this the wrong way....but Firemen, EMTs and Police have their own place in this imperfect world, as do repair shops.)

I have decided that all of the problematic issues that have been plaguing the rv industry, have just opened a huge opportunity up for the private sector, where timelyness and quality repairs can be a profitable endeavor.

I have had a strong construction and automotive background in Comercial and residential construction, and automotive, truck and industrial mechanical and collision repairs at dealers and private companies.
This along with the need for quality and timely repairs to rvs and boats, the lack of places that can do it, insurance companies not having a "book" for most of the repair procedures needed to work on this stuff and me living in a very central location both state wise and nationally........has me actually looking to do something about all the "problems".
I'm opening my own repair facility for service and collision repairs for boats and rvs. Granted we are in the land purchasing, rezoning, and equipment purchasing stages....but I'm working in that direction.
We will see how it all works out with doing manufacturer warranty work, but I'm sure we will get plenty of dealer bodyshop work, as I've been asked for years to do some.

Im hoping this Millennial can do something to help the industry and to also fund our future retirement! There are about 10k boomers retiring every day......thats going to be a lot of rvs hitting the road and needing something worked on properly!!
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:32 AM   #89
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I'm new to the RV life but I agreed with most of his opinions on quality and repair issues. Where he lost me is on the campgrounds. Seems he wants tons of amenities, quality web design, free spaces whenever he wants one and cheap. Uhhhh I've talked with and been in meeting with many small campground owners and most are just trying to keep from going out of business. Realize that many campgrounds only make money during the summer season so they have to make a good profit to then be able to upkeep the property in the winter while they bring in no cash.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:08 AM   #90
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you do ! what division ?

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