The RV industry death spiral

[bclemens]

"would anyone in the class like to show an example of people posting the same complaints on multiple threads and multiple sub-forums over and over?"

<raises hand>
Ooh, ooh, pick me !! Pick me!!!

Oh, wait...never mind I would end up violating most if not all of the forum rules.

<lowers hand>

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by bclemens

"would anyone in the class like to show an example of people posting the same complaints on multiple threads and multiple sub-forums over and over?"

<raises hand>
Ooh, ooh, pick me !! Pick me!!!

Oh, wait...never mind I would end up violating most if not all of the forum rules.

<lowers hand>

"Would anyone in the class like to show an example of different people posting the same complaints on multiple threads and multiple sub-forums over and over?"

[Coolharts]

After reading 13 pages of posts and the articles I am glad that (knock on wood) my Surveyor has had very few issues. Have I fixed some stuff, yes but only 1 week after we took delivery we took a weeks long vacation to Ft Wilderness.


Our dealer has been wonderful, we have had some furniture issues and I have done the leg work for her to keep from having the camper get stuck in "service jail". It seems that FR is not the problem getting parts, it is the parts supplier giving the troubles. The Inverter went bad (residential fridge) I contacted the parts vendor, they sent me an RMA and I replaced the unit, was very easy.


If you are willing to work with the dealer or vendor, they will help you out, if you are difficult with them you are at their mercy.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Coolharts

After reading 13 pages of posts and the articles I am glad that (knock on wood) my Surveyor has had very few issues. Have I fixed some stuff, yes but only 1 week after we took delivery we took a weeks long vacation to Ft Wilderness.


Our dealer has been wonderful, we have had some furniture issues and I have done the leg work for her to keep from having the camper get stuck in "service jail". It seems that FR is not the problem getting parts, it is the parts supplier giving the troubles. The Inverter went bad (residential fridge) I contacted the parts vendor, they sent me an RMA and I replaced the unit, was very easy.


If you are willing to work with the dealer or vendor, they will help you out, if you are difficult with them you are at their mercy.

Well Said and spot on.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by bclemens

It's funny that people that post their complaints don't like to get bashed for it...but yet when people post positive results those same people are bashing them for it. Really, I think no one should be bashing anyone for their opinion. (unless that's bashing right there...then it is so totally acceptable)

Maybe, just maybe we have two people on here and they had two different experiences (both accurately described). A person that says they love Forest River and will always buy is not saying that you are stupid and overly picky (at least I hope not) but on the same token, someone that had an issue cannot possibly say that everyone will.

Greg did in fact generalize the entire industry and he is entitled to his opinion....but posters are also entitled to post their positive experience as a counter point. That does not mean the industry is perfect....simply sharing their personal experience just as Gerber did his.

JMO but the dealer is just as important as the builder. In 9 years I have purchased 2 TTs and a 5er. Not one was perfect, not one had a major problem either. CW of Myrtle Beach handled warranty and non-warranty repairs from FR, Heartland, and Keystone. Our next purchase is already being considered and when the time comes it will either be another FR or Keystone depending on which model has the floorplan we like best.

Just as GM eliminated Pontiac and Oldsmobile the manufacturers need to stop the duplicate floorplans/models the manufacturers need to do the same.

[dblr]

bclemons, will you be at the FROG Rally at all, I think some here would like to meet you in person to thank you for being on the board here and putting up with some of us.

[bclemens]

I'll do my best to make it down for dinner and spend some time in the display. Based on the tone of some of the posts...you'll be able to spot me pretty easily.

[KatanaPilot]

To read about problems like this from FR owners -

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...lp-113903.html

Don't think this was due to inadequate PDI, or unreasonable demands from an unreasonable owner. Many of us simply want to take our MH on a trip of a lifetime and not worry about preventable failures interrupting or ruining a trip. I know I would like to do that. Maybe that's too much to ask?

[Oakman]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I'll do my best to make it down for dinner and spend some time in the display. Based on the tone of some of the posts...you'll be able to spot me pretty easily.

LOL! I'm thinking you might need something more like this bclemens. You'll be able to fly away if necessary. My hats off to you sir.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I usually see both sides (hahahaha)..........but at least I do here. I hear too many horror stories on RV quality for them all to be wrong! Yet mine is fine. I don't know the answer. I do know for a FACT that good ones are built and bad ones are built.

On the campgrounds, I disagree with the guy. Go get 15 acres in the country, away from civilization, but on a paved road (to where is immaterial), and make a campground. Put in septic, electric, and water. Get a lawn mower. And a good vehicle that will make it to the bank. Every one in America is full, including the ones that are sardine cans.....every single one. The complaints are always "there aren't enough nice camp sites", not that they are too empty.

As for "getting back to nature vs. comfort", some of us spent a lot of time in a tent.......and now later in life we developed heart conditions (I had an L.A.D. -M.I., go look it up), asthma (no clue where that came from), and the days of tents are over. So the house gets paid off cause the Lord let me live long enough, and I just moved to a moving-house-on-wheels mortgage. So, I'm not supposed to use that because some guy likes tents better? (I bet he doesn't live in the south where it's 100+ starting today through September 25 or so)..........

My nine cents.

Not that easy in many locales. In our area the county gets involved, we looked at developing about 15-17 acres as an RV park. We were looking at a cost approaching $500,000 by the time we met all of the requirements. Going to take a long time to earn that back. Location and region also play into it. In somewhere like the Midwest or New England you only have 6 months of RV season, here in NC you might get 9 months. Hard to make a mortgage payment and keep the rates affordable.

I know several campground owners, most live a paupers life while owning and running the campground, they might get their money out of it when they sell, or maybe not.

Aaron

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

As usual the Forest River glee club comes out to defend them at all costs, while having a good long sip of the kool aid. What's funny is Greg's opinions in the series are directed at the entire Industry, but the faithful here feel they must defend Forest River.

I was handed, well lets say almost handed, a total POS of a trailer. No PDI involved....we never made it that far. I saw it a few hours after the dealer received it. I have copies of the 19 pages of warranty work orders approved to the dealer (official Rockwood forms) to repair that unit to the tune of $5000, and I did not even own it. I have resisted posting those pages here, along with the massive amount of pictures I have, but maybe I should? I had discussed the issues directly with the factory on more than one occasion prior to and during those approvals. There was only a few items they refused to do or considered "unreasonable". One was the TV antenna hits the radio antenna when rotated. Why? 184 sq ft of roof and you can't mount one antenna 6" further from the other? Nope, that's the way we build them......so was the official response. Maybe I was unreasonable.

Long story short. The ball was dropped, not by the dealer but the manufacturer, as they could not get parts to the dealer to repair the screw ups they shipped. I was intimately involved and know almost to the hour when the parts orders were sent by the dealer. Ultimately the unit was rejected by us. Unreasonable? I was being patient for weeks and trying to remain positive. I was trying to buy something and the manufacturer could not provide it.

We wanted the model / floorplan, and gave them a second chance. Add another 7 weeks. We had discussions with the factory more than once. We were given some excellent advice behind the scenes here that I will not mention regarding factory inspections. We were told things and promised things. Not by the dealer, by people at the factory.

The 2nd unit showed up in much better shape but still had some of the same issues as the first, and not minor inconsequential things either. By that time I was tired of it and I gave up. I'll fix it myself, where do I sign. Its now April and I placed the original order in October. I have already missed a yearly fishing trip and the season has started. I just want this entire ordeal over with. I am guilty of exactly what Greg describes in part 7....

On the way home the water tank started falling out. The first trip out the fridge stops working and the microwave go's up in a plume of smoke. I know....... those are components not made by Forest River........ A very common response here...................BS!

It was not rushed/incomplete/nonexistent pickup PDI nor unreasonable demands. All I expect for my lowly $20K is something I don't have to rebuild and repair right out of the gate.....It's not the dealers fault, unless hes building trailers in Indiana. I didn't have to work on my cheap $50K GMC pickup yet or my wife's measly cheap 22K CRV. I remember when we bought the CRV and drove it home. The next day I did not have to tighten up the fuel tank.


Well guess what?..I am actually happy with the unit now. That's after I have spent countless amounts of time and effort, along with who knows how much money, to finish building it correctly. I am also quite happy with Rockwood's support after the fact. They reimbursed me for the fridge element, and sent a new microwave to me. Fairly painlessly too. I am thrilled with the dealer, Campers Inn of Pittsburgh (formally Clems).

This industry has some huge problems that they created themselves and Forest River is just as guilty as anyone else, no matter what the fan club thinks or says. When I see the Kumbaya posts I want to stick my finger down my throat and hurl on my monitor. Believe me, the below does not solve much. I need a drink..........and not Kool aid either.

How is your current trailer? Anything good to say about this unit?

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

"Would anyone in the class like to show an example of different people posting the same complaints on multiple threads and multiple sub-forums over and over?"

Well technically that would NOT be in violation of any forum rules. I guess officially ok too

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Oakman

LOL! I'm thinking you might need something more like this bclemens. You'll be able to fly away if necessary. My hats off to you sir.

Attachment 114883

Fly away, or obliterate all the evidence. Problem? What problem?

[B and B]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Well technically that would NOT be in violation of any forum rules. I guess officially ok too

FTR. Your name is the SAME as my name. Middle initial A. And no I did not write the avengers !

Back to the Downward spiral of the RV Industry.

Like all all things in life. Your cup is 3/4 full of a good R V with some things that need repair or worse things that need more work.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by B and B

FTR. Your name is the SAME as my name. Middle initial A. And no I did not write the avengers !

Back to the Downward spiral of the RV Industry.

Like all all things in life. Your cup is 3/4 full of a good R V with some things that need repair or worse things that need more work.

Fine. But what are you supposed to do when the 1/4 that is "not good" is a Dometic A/C that doesn't cool, a Schwintek slide that won't retract, a Curt Controller that gets wet and turns on your tail lights, a Cummins generator that fails while boondocking in 90 degree weather, or some other primary system fails while you are on the road 3500 miles from home? Seems to me that 3/4 of a "good" RV is pretty useless at that point.

[Wobbles]

The articles were meant to raise conversation. That has been evident here. I think that this is an industry wide issue with the failures that are displayed here. I understand that you go after the mfg that produced your product or the dealer that accepted it (as the blogger blamed).

This is where it goes off the rails for me. The dealer should stand behind the product vs "duh, we get no mfg help there". The consumer is left outside in the cold for whatever reasons.

Why does the dealer not hold the mfg to a standard? They are the ones that loose respect/future sales when the product is lacking. If you get a POS then blame your dealer for turning a blind eye to the issues, I am sure they hear about them every day they would be happy to steer you to another product that they are pushing.

Some issues are not readily seen. The mfg needs to look inside and determine production issues when forwarded to their attention. If they do not effort a correction then sell your stock.

In closing, Some have had some real bad experiences. Some are capable of handling it within their own means. If you have the skills, yes, you got hammered, help those that are without your skills. Move on with your life and bring along those that need really need the help.

This does not mean you should stop pointing out failures. This is a good discussion.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

Fine. But what are you supposed to do when the 1/4 that is "not good" is a Dometic A/C that doesn't cool, a Schwintek slide that won't retract, a Curt Controller that gets wet and turns on your tail lights, a Cummins generator that fails while boondocking in 90 degree weather, or some other primary system fails while you are on the road 3500 miles from home? Seems to me that 3/4 of a "good" RV is pretty useless at that point.

I also had a Schwintek Slide that failed first trip out on my Travel Trailer, the TV mount fell off the wall, I fixed that and it took 10 minutes with some screws and glue. Was I upset, dang right I was and the dealer knew it. Calmed down and addressed it to get a smooth resolution. We dropped it there on Sunday night after the first trip. They rebuilt the slide, had FR approval for the repair in 2 days, has a full slide system there in 3 days and all was well. They seem to be an exception to a lot dealer dissatisfaction.
We traded 14 months later for a 5th Wheel and FR even helped the dealer get the deal with a discount.
The factory tours were eye openers for us. I saw the Rockwood plant, we have one. Told at the Columbus tour that they had some issues and are fixing them, just happen to run by Rockwood now, the reason in my view was Rockwood/Flagstaff quality. I went to the Sabre Factory, jettisoned from Palamino. They also say said straight up they have some problems, have dropped some lines and refocus business on core product and quality improvement.I have seen there trailers at shows and the quality has improved.

Bclemens is at Dynamax now working at improving the the product there. Maybe the Trilogy will come back some day, I really liked that trailer and it had issues too.

So I will sum up. There are issues, I have seen them and dealt with them like many have. I see a company trying to fix problems, I would rather give them a chance than throw them under the bus. I see time and time again a person buys a TT or MOHO 3 states away then is mad the local dealer they bypassed won't service their "good deal". Who is to blame on this? The purchaser to save a buck.

I would rather believe that Forest River is trying to make things better, lighter and have more longevity.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by B and B

How is your current trailer? Anything good to say about this unit?

???? In my post that you quoted......maybe you missed


"I am actually happy with the unit now. That's after I have spent countless amounts of time and effort, along with who knows how much money, to finish building it correctly. I am also quite happy with Rockwood's support after the fact. They reimbursed me for the fridge element, and sent a new microwave to me. Fairly painlessly too. I am thrilled with the dealer, Campers Inn of Pittsburgh (formally Clems)."

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

???? In my post that you quoted......maybe you missed


"I am actually happy with the unit now. That's after I have spent countless amounts of time and effort, along with who knows how much money, to finish building it correctly. I am also quite happy with Rockwood's support after the fact. They reimbursed me for the fridge element, and sent a new microwave to me. Fairly painlessly too. I am thrilled with the dealer, Campers Inn of Pittsburgh (formally Clems)."

Very good Mr Havercamp. Great to hear. I also have done the same thing to my trailers over the years, we sometimes like things finished better than supplied.

[rockfordroo]

Well, I've been following this thread for 14 pages now. I am neither defaming nor defending FR or the RV industry, but other than the "affected equipment" being different, all the issues I've read here, I can read almost verbatim comments on the Chevy Traverse forum I follow.

I have a 2011 Traverse with (knock on wood) no problems; BUT I can tell you all about timing chains, power steering pumps, water pumps, steering racks, throttle bodies, air conditioner evaporator cores, tail gate lift mechanisms, headlights repeated burning out, and more. And the people with the problems say the same things about GM that folks here are saying about FR.