Which hybrid to pick ? Looking for advice :)

dummin4fun · 05-22-2012, 11:10 AM

I have been reading this forum for a while and it has been very helpful. I was hoping to get some advice on hybrids for us to pull with our 2010 GMC Acadia. We are a family of 5 (mom, dad, kids 7 & 9, and our australian shepherd puppy). I am a researchaholic, and have a handful of floorplans I like (3 bed pop outs), my husband wants space, I want more storage. Does anyone have any advice for me . . . looking at the Roo 183 / 233S, Surveyor SP224T & Coachmen 21 TQX. Thanks in advance! Mary

Triguy · 05-22-2012, 11:33 AM

Mary!

I'm moving this thread to the Expandable and Hybrid forum.

Just some initial thoughts for you to help in your decision...

The 233S is great when you have 4 or 5 to sleep. With your family, each kid has their own bed, which they will prefer as they get older.

The slideout on the 233S provides a lot of walking space, which we find is nice with our dog. Its always a shocker at how much extra space it gives when opened up. We love that feeling of openness.

I note that the 21TQX has a couch in front of one of the bunks. Some people don't like to climb over or on them to access the bunk.

The 183 is 3-4 feet shorter. But, its also the lightest trailer of the four. The 224T has a huge CCC so be careful loading it to the point that its over your TVs ability to tow. Weight will be critical with your tow vehicle.

You can play around with the towing calculator on Changingears to understand your ratings for any of these trailers with your truck. The Acadia has a max tow cap of 5,200lbs with the towing package, doesn't it? Check your truck's door sticker. That could limit your options.

Let us know if you have any specific questions. There are lots of 233S owners on board, a few 224T and not a lot of people with 21TQX but we'll help as much as we can

dummin4fun · 05-22-2012, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the info Scott, and for moving my post. I noticed it there and could not figure out how to move it. My husband really likes the 233S but the hitch weight is high (647#). We do have the tow package which is 5200#, 600# for tongue (stated on sticker by hitch). Is that a really big deal being over by 47#? Mary

mhartzel · 05-22-2012, 12:33 PM

as listed on the mfg site seen here: Roo 233S specs

Quote:

Dry Hitch Weight 647 lb. (293 kg )
Dry Ship Weight 4,351 lb. (1,974 kg )
GVWR 5,764 lb. (2,615 kg )
Cargo Carrying Capacity 1,833 lb. (831 kg )

The hitch weight listed is the "dry" weight. Anything you add to the trailer will transfer between 10-15% to the tongue. Also, the "Dry Ship Weight" is less than 700 pounds from your max tow weight. Subtract the family, dog, and supplies and you'll quickly be at or over the limit of your Acadia.

I have a 1999 Blazer with the same tow rating. We just picked up the Coachmen Apex 151RBX. GVWR of 3890 so we still have "room" for our gear, family and dog. The interior is a little snug for staying inside, but that fits our camping style anyways. We're not inside unless we're changing, sleeping or the weather is REALLY bad. My first trip is in 3 weeks to Michigan International Speedway for the NA$CAR weekend.

Triguy · 05-22-2012, 12:34 PM

When doing tow calculations, don't bother with the dry weights in the brochure as most people will load 500-1500lbs into their trailer.

The dry tongue weight is 647lbs but will be much more in real life after you load the trailer with cargo, propane, batteries, a little water, food, etc. My 233S has a tongue weight of 675-750lbs depending how heavy I loaded it and where I packed stuff. Usually closer to the lower end of that range, though.

But the real issue is the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) for the Acadia. My wife and I looked at one a few years ago. Verify this but I think its GCWR is around 9,500lbs. Subtract the actual weight of the truck including all people in the truck from 9500 and this leaves you with the maximum loaded trailer you can tow safely.

edit: I should add that is only one number. The calculator above will address all of your ratings. The bottom line is the 233S is too much trailer for the Acadia

BoldenCampers · 05-22-2012, 12:38 PM

Is that 600# tounge capacity with or without a WDH? We are a family of 4, me, DW, DD & DS and have recently purchased a Shamrock 233S which is the twin to the Roo 233S, so far we love it, the openness of the main living is awesome, tons of storage, the kids have their own beds with room to carry friends & coming from a Pop Up to this we have actually found that once we have loaded all our gear back in that we still had so much room to spare that we feel like we have forgotten a few things. Agree that if you are going to stick to the Acadia that you confirm towing capacities before you decide on which camper to go with. Wish you the best of luck in your search.

dummin4fun · 05-22-2012, 12:56 PM

Thanks for all the replies. We have AWD, GCWR is 10,450. Just picked up some bricks this weekend and asked them to tell me the weight of me and the car. It was 5100#, so figuring me, huband, kids and dog, that will be about 5,500 plus 4,335 of the trailer and subtract that from the 10,450, that only leaves us with 625 to load in the vehicle or camper. Am I doing the math right? If so my husband and I either need to go on diets or pick a lighter trailer.

prof_fate · 05-22-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dummin4fun

Thanks for the info Scott, and for moving my post. I noticed it there and could not figure out how to move it. My husband really likes the 233S but the hitch weight is high (647#). We do have the tow package which is 5200#, 600# for tongue (stated on sticker by hitch). Is that a really big deal being over by 47#? Mary

Tow ratings are VERY optimisic.

First, they assume the car/truck has JUST the driver and he/she weighs 150lbs. In your case you've got more people and a dog - and probably cargo (games, food, clothing, toys, bikes...etc). For us that's more like 700 lbs as I'm not close to 150lbs and neither is the DW and the kids keep growing.

What you need to watch more closely IMO is GCWR - the total weight of your tv and tt and cargo/passengers rolling down the road. This figure is what you have to get moving, keep moving, steer, stop, etc. I googled and found a GCWR of 9500lbs for an acadia. that may vary by year/options.
So if it lists a tow rating of 5200, then the acadia weighs about 4150 lbs.

So start adding:
truck 4150, people/dog 600(?), hitch 60ish.
Trailer is what, 3550 or so empty. Add battery and propane for 150lbs more.
You're gonna have food, clothing, sheets, dishes, chairs, firewood and a grill, etc. What, 500lbs? More? And if have water/waste in the tanks add for that too (figure 150 lbs as you're not likely to drain every drop every move so the lines, water heater, etc have something in them)

Now you've got 9160 lbs total. That's assuming only 500lbs of cargo (firewood, pool toys, bikes, computer, dog food/leash/dishes, etc, etc).

You're close to the max of the acadia. What this means if you live in kansas and never exceed 55mph and camp 50 miles from home 3 times a year is you're fine. Want to do 70mph over the rockies every weekend for 500 miles and you're gonna kill your tow vehicle in short order.

There are other numbers you can figure out too - what is the GVWR of the acadia? Add up the people/dog/cargo/hitch and tounge weight and see that you don't go over, or overload the rear axle.

**bikendan** · 05-22-2012, 03:43 PM

with the Acadia as a tow vehicle, you're going to be really limited in trailer size and weight, especially for a big family.

dummin4fun · 05-22-2012, 09:08 PM

Thanks everyone for your replies. My husband had a pop up in California and would go out with friends, but I never had anything other than a tent, and now with kids there is a lot to consider. So, do we get something smaller so we can get started, or look at upgrading our Acadia to somethinig bigger. Wow, then I'm really going to drive my husband crazy because there is a lot of fun stuff out there!

Happy camping everyone. Thanks for your kind suggestions and input, will look forward to talking again!

Mary

Triguy · 05-22-2012, 09:18 PM

Hi Mary,
I know it's got to be a little disappointing. If you keep the Acadia there are lighter trailers to consider that are very good. Or, maybe you do want a more tow-worthy vehicle and a used 233S would fit the bill. Good luck in your search.

prof_fate · 05-22-2012, 09:23 PM

Enjoy the process (the best you can).

We went hybrid shopping and ended up with a much bigger 'traditional' trailer which forced us to buy a much bigger (as in cost, fuel consumption) vehicle and even then it's borderline spec-wise.

Had a customer in tonite with a ford diesel with oh, just a few mods..he's aiming for 800 hp. He says he can (and has) towed just about anything, including pull sleds in competition. His next upgrade is $3000 for new injectors to hit his 800 goal. Of course, he sheepishly says around town he gets ~6mpg.

dummin4fun · 05-23-2012, 09:11 PM

Thanks for the responses, we are looking at all our options. My brother has a Ford Expedition which he likes and we could save money by trading our Acadia in which could go towards our trailer purchase. I really like the more traditional self enclosed trailers as well, so that would give us more options to choose from, or, just have the peace of mind knowing that we are not at maximum capacity with what we have to tow. Any way we go, I hope to get out this season. Since we have been looking, my other brother bought a Class A, his father in law sold his 5th wheel trailer to his son and he and his wife purchased a Class A (they are retired). Don't mind being the runt of the litter, just dont want to be left behind.

Enjoy the summer everyone! Hope to get more help down the road as we continue our search. Mary

Triguy · 05-23-2012, 10:10 PM

Have fun with your search, Mary.

I think you're doing the right things (for what it's worth).

Your asking good questions and keeping your options open. Post away and keep us updated.

Rsgtivr6 · 05-23-2012, 10:32 PM

We had a 05 Trailblazer and were seriously considering the 183. It is a great camper for its size and RV Direct quoted us just under $15k for a custom ordered one this spring. With the beds all folding out, it leaves a good bit of space for the livinf area, plus the storage seemed to be quite good as well. We traded up on TV and were able to do the same on TT. Choosing the right trailer is probably 75% of the battle lol. Happy hunting!

Grady Camping · 02-20-2013, 08:22 AM

Hello,

I am a new member to this forum with a very similar situation... we also have a GMC Acadia (2011), 2 kids age 7 and 9, and are seriously looking at Coachmen 21 TQX. Absolutely love the layout. We have a pop up now, which has been no problem for the Acadia. We can't upgrade the trailer and vehicle in the same year, so we were hoping to use the Acadia for a couple more years with this (possibly) new trailer. All the posts above have been very helpful to us in making plans - thank you! We went to the Changingears site and did the calculations, and intend to drive as lean as possible (no water, wood, bikes, waste water, etc.), but are planning to go long distances (possibly 2000 miles round trip) for a few weeks in the summer. What I am wondering is...

* any other advice for such a situation (weight and tow ability)?

* any suggestions on where to locate a fair and reasonable price for the Coachmen 21TQX? With the hybrids being so new, it seems there is a range of prices available on the internet, but no steady way of determining the "going rate." I could not find anything on NADA, and I'm not sure how to approach any negotiations. I like the dealership, but feel like I am going in blind without some research to back me up. If they are not too flexible on the price, are there other things I should look into asking them to add (i.e., maintenance service, covers, etc.)?

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Colleen

**bikendan** · 02-20-2013, 11:04 AM

Grady,

1. i believe your Acadia has a towing capacity of 5500, IF it has the factory tow package? does it?
2. that 5500 number is rated with only a 150lbs. driver in it. anyone or anything else in it, will lower that number by its weight, including the WDH.
3. the main issue will be the trailer's tongue weight. with a fictional "dry" weight of 430lbs., loaded for camping and with the WDH, it'll probably exceed the max hitch weight of the Acadia.
4. not sure what you mean about hybrids being "new". they've been around since 1998.
5. as far as price, Coachmen sells very few hybrids, so it will be hard to find prices on them. i would get prices for the Roo 183 from RVW and RVDirect. the 183 is a similar floorplan and can give you a ball park amount.
6. i'm not sure if you'd be able to wait a couple of years, pulling this trailer with the Acadia. pulling a full-height trailer with a mid-sized SUV will not be fun.
7. it helps if you specify what area of North America you are.

jeeplj8 · 02-20-2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dummin4fun

I have been reading this forum for a while and it has been very helpful. I was hoping to get some advice on hybrids for us to pull with our 2010 GMC Acadia. We are a family of 5 (mom, dad, kids 7 & 9, and our australian shepherd puppy). I am a researchaholic, and have a handful of floorplans I like (3 bed pop outs), my husband wants space, I want more storage. Does anyone have any advice for me . . . looking at the Roo 183 / 233S, Surveyor SP224T & Coachmen 21 TQX. Thanks in advance! Mary

I have a very good friend that downsized to the Acadia for mileage. They tow a 23 ft boat with a gross weight on trailer of about 4600 lbs. It does not tow well. The Acadia gets pushed around quite a bit by the boat, which is of course longer than the Acadia. Add to that the wind resistance of a travel trailer and I am afraid you will not enjoy your towing experience at all.

I think you mentioned your husband previously owned a pop-up. When looking for our first trailer we looked at both hybrids and pop-ups. We ended up with a high wall pop-up, specifically this model:
Flagstaff Tent Pop Up Camper by Forest River

you will notice that is has most of the same creature comforts as the hybrid, but is much smaller and easier to tow. Our plan was to tow with a heavily modified Jeep, more power than your Acadia but similar wheelbase.

We felt that we were much better off in the pop-up for ease of towing. The hybrid was nice, but as we discussed it, it really did not give that much advantage over the pop-up. The interior floor space was still quite small for a family of four plus animals. The beds were smaller than a pop-up and you still had to open it and let it dry if you ever put it away wet.

The pop-up also weighed MUCH less. It would be far easier for your Acadia to tow. Also much easier to store etc. And finally, was much cheaper. Here is the outside kitchen model (which we would have gotten if it was available back then) for comparison.
Flagstaff HW27KS High Wall Pop Up Fold Down Tent Camper Outside Kitchen Shower Toilet

Just throwing out this option as well.

jeeplj8 · 02-20-2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grady Camping

Hello,

I am a new member to this forum with a very similar situation... we also have a GMC Acadia (2011), 2 kids age 7 and 9, and are seriously looking at Coachmen 21 TQX. Absolutely love the layout. We have a pop up now, which has been no problem for the Acadia. We can't upgrade the trailer and vehicle in the same year, so we were hoping to use the Acadia for a couple more years with this (possibly) new trailer. All the posts above have been very helpful to us in making plans - thank you! We went to the Changingears site and did the calculations, and intend to drive as lean as possible (no water, wood, bikes, waste water, etc.), but are planning to go long distances (possibly 2000 miles round trip) for a few weeks in the summer. What I am wondering is...

* any other advice for such a situation (weight and tow ability)?

* any suggestions on where to locate a fair and reasonable price for the Coachmen 21TQX? With the hybrids being so new, it seems there is a range of prices available on the internet, but no steady way of determining the "going rate." I could not find anything on NADA, and I'm not sure how to approach any negotiations. I like the dealership, but feel like I am going in blind without some research to back me up. If they are not too flexible on the price, are there other things I should look into asking them to add (i.e., maintenance service, covers, etc.)?

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Colleen

That is a neat looking trailer, but with a gross weight rating of at least 6,000 lbs, it is pretty heavy for your Acadia.

Just curious, what is the driving force to go from your current pop-up to this trailer?

prof_fate · 02-20-2013, 11:45 AM

YOu need a 30' trailer and a dually cummins 3500 truck.

See..we started wtih a little popup and wanted more comfort, less setup and were thinking hybrids as well. And mid size SUV (explorer).

Hybrids cost more (new) than a full TT and require setup like a popup (or close to it). So for the weight, price, convenience we opted for a 26' TT. I mean, only 3 or 4' longer than a hybrid so what's the big deal? It even had a big sticker inside "small suv towable"!

Sticker from the factory on the door says it weights 5335 lbs. We bought an expedition which is 'rated' at 8900 lbs. Easy peasy, right?

Nope, not even close. Certain options on the ford reduced tow capacity, add people, gas, hitch, battery/propane and the sundries (food, bath, bedding, chairs, clothes) and suddenly we're at the edge of the TV's GCWR!

We just bought a new silverado 1500 -with a careful choice of options - and we'll be fine - but still can't put much in the back of the truck or we'll be nearing the GVWR of the truck (and it's got an upped rating!)

Reality seems to be as soon as you get away from popups you need a 2500/three quarter ton truck or you'll be at the edge of things, safety, capacity, reliability wise.

I love our TT and hope the new TV makes longer trips a possibility (we took our pop up all over). A hard side has definite plusses, but it's not 'camping' the way the pop up was.

Our next one will either be a big pop up or a 5vr (and full timing).

Enjoy whatever you get and be safe out there.

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