Military Campgrounds

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by spock123

Well its not right, besides MWR is not in the money making buisness. I may not can do anything about it but I intend to make someone mad. I think I can call enough people to get someone mad, anyway I don't have alot to do on a cold day, its not right that people like me earned those benefits and civilians can take advantage of it.

Oh contrare, They are a non appropriated fund activity and have to pay there own way, which is why many of them prefer full campgrounds, so they have the $$$ to pay and hire staff.

Still they should accommodate ALL active duty and retired service members, and clear them a spot when they come in. Just fair, I would think. They could have a policy that let the civilians in with the understanding that they would have to vacate if a service member came in.

That's not the reg but certainly the way I would want it done.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

On the other hand my brother in arms....

Still working for the Army in a somewhat senior position, I get to sit in on a lot of the budgetary briefings and....well we are not the size of force we were back in the '80 (or '90s for that matter!) Base Alignment and Closures (BRAC), force drawdowns, budget cuts and lack of appropriations are making for lean times - not just big Army (Navy/AF/Marines/CG) but IMCOM (Installation Command) as well.

Lots of hard choices are being made - there is even a plan on the Hill (Congress) to close Commissaries. Secretary Hagel has his 2014 budget proposal to draw the force down to pre-WWII (Yes, World War II!) levels.
So this will have a huge impact all the Morale, Welfare & Recreation (MWR) facilities.

Not sure if you are aware of this Spock, but MWR is part of the Non-Appropriated Fund (NAF) activities on a installation. NAF is funded solely by generated income. (Unlike Appropriated Funds – Appropriated by Congress and used to pay for Service Member & DOD Civilian wages, new equipment, and physical plant .

This translates into a two-edge cut for benefits: Less Active Duty and DOD Civilian users of these facilities means less income for these MWR Activities. Less generated income means less funds for maintenance, repair and improvements. This is why some military facilities are allowing a limited number of local civilians to “Buy” memberships to their golf courses – it’s either do this or close the course (to the detriment of the Service Members and authorized DOD Civilians)

Even the Appropriated fund facilities are feeling the Sequestration pinch – here in Huntsville Alabama on Redstone Arsenal, Post housing – which used to be available only for military members – is now advertising that DOD Civilians can lease quarters on post as well.

It’s a tight budget out there battle buddy and benefits are not just eroding but disappearing. Not for lack of trying either – the bank account is just empty

Hope this explains what is going on a bit better to you.

X2 what he said better than what I said at the same time.

[Terier]

Originally Posted by spock123

I thought only military and DOD civilians could use military campgrounds but I am wrong, civilians can use them too. I was at Ft Fisher military campground this past weekend and the place was full of campers but only one had ever been in the military, that was the one that signed for all the spots. A good Sam club that had a one member of the military had signed for all the spots. This does not seem right to me

Just curious - how many sites were there? Are you saying that only one person in the entire campground was in the military while everyone else was not? I just make to double check that you are not talking about a large group but rather everyone except for one person.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

On the other hand my brother in arms....

Still working for the Army in a somewhat senior position, I get to sit in on a lot of the budgetary briefings and....well we are not the size of force we were back in the '80 (or '90s for that matter!) Base Alignment and Closures (BRAC), force drawdowns, budget cuts and lack of appropriations are making for lean times - not just big Army (Navy/AF/Marines/CG) but IMCOM (Installation Command) as well.

Lots of hard choices are being made - there is even a plan on the Hill (Congress) to close Commissaries. Secretary Hagel has his 2014 budget proposal to draw the force down to pre-WWII (Yes, World War II!) levels.
So this will have a huge impact all the Morale, Welfare & Recreation (MWR) facilities.

Not sure if you are aware of this Spock, but MWR is part of the Non-Appropriated Fund (NAF) activities on a installation. NAF is funded solely by generated income. (Unlike Appropriated Funds – Appropriated by Congress and used to pay for Service Member & DOD Civilian wages, new equipment, and physical plant .

This translates into a two-edge cut for benefits: Less Active Duty and DOD Civilian users of these facilities means less income for these MWR Activities. Less generated income means less funds for maintenance, repair and improvements. This is why some military facilities are allowing a limited number of local civilians to “Buy” memberships to their golf courses – it’s either do this or close the course (to the detriment of the Service Members and authorized DOD Civilians)

Even the Appropriated fund facilities are feeling the Sequestration pinch – here in Huntsville Alabama on Redstone Arsenal, Post housing – which used to be available only for military members – is now advertising that DOD Civilians can lease quarters on post as well.

It’s a tight budget out there battle buddy and benefits are not just eroding but disappearing. Not for lack of trying either – the bank account is just empty

Hope this explains what is going on a bit better to you.

Hey lets put a big sign on the gate and say for $25 anyone can camp, we are not making enough money on the the PX and commissaries lets open everything up. Hey that goes for the VA hospital too and the base hospital.

[markb5900]

Originally Posted by spock123

Hey lets put a big sign on the gate and say for $25 anyone can camp, we are not making enough money on the the PX and commissaries lets open everything up. Hey that goes for the VA hospital too and the base hospital.

What about us disabled veterans that are not retired, we can't use them either.
The rules are there and we all abide by them.
I think as a DAV I should be able to use military campgrounds also, but I can't. Life goes on.

[BombDoc]

Here is my 2 cents, and it don't mean much!!

I work on Parris Island, and I'm a retired Marine. You can't move in the PX on Thursday and Friday. Almost every Friday is a graduation. Thursday's are "family day" and the base is open to droves of civilians walking around looking at everything with their new Marine. The sole purpose of opening the PX is to allow those family members to purchase everything under the sun that has an Eagle, Globe and Anchor (The Marine Corps Emblem) on it. The emblem is similar to my avatar. The avatar is a buzzard, bomb and hook, to kinda mimic the EGA. No disrespect intended.
The CG of the base is considering extending family day to include Wednesday. The sole purpose.....more money to be spent in the PX.
Parris Island has a campground too, and guess who uses it most....families of those attending a graduation.
I don't agree with it either, but when we used to have "special services" it seemed like they were there to take care of the service member. Now that it's MWR it feels like a total money issue. We've had several restaurants on board the depot leave because MWR wants more of the take. We used to jokingly call MWR, "Marines We Rob" when I was in the fleet.

[NO3putt]

That's what they did at one of the Navy FAMCAMPS (Adm Baker FAMCAMP) but charge civilians $5 more. Looked up the FAMCAMP you are refering to, it's a small one that accepts resverations, but says nothing in their policy about civilians, sounds like the good old boy network rules, be willing to bet who ever took the resverations for the group are good old buddies with someone.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by Terier

Just curious - how many sites were there? Are you saying that only one person in the entire campground was in the military while everyone else was not? I just make to double check that you are not talking about a large group but rather everyone except for one person.

I checked with four campers and they had never served a day in the military and were not DOD civilians, they were in a Good Sam group that had over one hundred members and only four were retired military and they can reserve a spot 1 year in advance. It said on there web site that groups could not reserve spots in June, July and August but we go there every month. We have not been in about a year and we were surprised to find the campground full, they only have 21 spots with full hookups, its a good little campground and we do go a lot, they know us by first name. It is normanly full in the summertime with full time military. It use to be active duty military could rent 90 days in advance and retired military 75 days in advance. It use to stay full in the summertime with active duty and that was find with us I am going at Easter and I have to move for two days with only 20amps and no water or sewer

[markb5900]

Just curious Spock, did you not get the site you wanted?
Someone with you not able to camp because of this group?

[spock123]

Originally Posted by markb5900

What about us disabled veterans that are not retired, we can't use them either.
The rules are there and we all abide by them.
I think as a DAV I should be able to use military campgrounds also, but I can't. Life goes on.

100% disabled veterans can use the campgrounds

[spock123]

Originally Posted by markb5900

Just curious Spock, did you not get the site you wanted?
Someone with you not able to camp because of this group?

No just me and DW, I just don't think its right to let people thats not in the military get the benefits I paid for with the 22 years I spent in the Army. That someone who has never served a day can get all the benefits. I have spent the night in every spot they have and one site is no better than the other.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by danno2u

I'm not judging your frustration but just providing another perspective.

According to the DOD Instruction, a member with MWR privileges can sponsor guests into the facility, with limitations set by the installation commander. Each Service mimics this instruction in their own particular fashion. So, presuming no one was speeding, your "beef" will be with the installation commander's use policy. As a former commander, we answered these kinds of Congressional Inquiries several times a month and nothing changed as a result.

Personally, I think there are bigger issues to tackle and when some time has elapsed, this one won't seem worth calling your Congressman. *break break * Abraham Lincoln had a unique way of handling his frustration. When he got really mad at someone, he would write them a scathing letter. He would take out all his frustration in that letter. Then he would put it in his drawer and wait until the next morning. In almost every case, he never sent the letter. (From the book Lincoln on Leadership).

Reference:
U.S. Military Campgrounds and RV Parks - Authorized Users of Military Campgrounds

I'm briefly staying in a FamCamp right now and I can say I have never seen a situation where I thought unauthorized users were in the RV camps.

Danno
(30 years in the USAF -- loved 29 years of it!)

I am sorry but if I take the time to write a letter then I am not going to waste the time I took to write the letter, I am going to mail it. If I see something wrong then I am going to try to fix it if I can , just to sit back and do nothing because thats the way its always been is not me. Thats like the blind leading the blind and they all fall in the ditch. They had 5 people working inside and 1 waiting on campers. I have been to big campgrounds and not seen that many people working. Senator Kay Hagen from North Carolina will get a call, she wants my vote, lets see whats she is good for. I know a few more. There use to be a show on tv called have gun will travel and mine is have phone will call, its costs nothing to call, write letters it does, I get up in the morning with nothing to do and I try to make it last me all day, so now I have a goal

[dcheatwood]

Seems a reasonable solution might be to charge more $$ for civilians and limit the number of spots open to civilians. Always keep 10% or so reserved for walk-in military (no reservations) so that they aren't turned away.

Sent from David's RAZR M.

[ourflat]

spock123, I am retired USAF and live in the Goldsboro area. I stayed at SJ AFB FAMCAMP several times and haven't experienced your situation yet.

Have you spoke to a supervisor in the MWR chain of command yet?

[spock123]

Originally Posted by ourflat

spock123, I am retired USAF and live in the Goldsboro area. I stayed at SJ AFB FAMCAMP several times and haven't experienced your situation yet.

Have you spoke to a supervisor in the MWR chain of command yet?

I have stayed there a lot and I did not know until this past weekend about the new policy, new rules. I don't think the supervisor would change the rules but I will ask him tomorrow, I called today and the lady that answered the phone said he was out everytime I called, she knew what I wanted to talk about, I had told her, that was like peeing in the ocean

[WEMig]

Fort Fisher, is that DOD military? Never heard of it.

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[ourflat]

Let's take the discussion to their supervisor if you would like. Send me a private email with whom you have spoke to so far.

[WEMig]

This is what i found,
YOUR PLACE AT THE BEACH
Fort Fisher Air Force Recreation Area
(Available to Active Duty Military,*Reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Retired Military, DoD Civilians and 100% Disabled Veteran with DoD Id card)

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[spock123]

Originally Posted by WEMig

This is what i found,
YOUR PLACE AT THE BEACH
Fort Fisher Air Force Recreation Area
(Available to Active Duty Military,*Reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Retired Military, DoD Civilians and 100% Disabled Veteran with DoD Id card)

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no place in there about Good Sams club, a group can rent all the spots it needs and just have one military person to pay for all the spots, seems like a good deal to a civilian at $25 a night for full hookup and cable and the spots are wide too, not close like in a lot of campgrounds

[WEMig]

That's definately can't be the intent of the rules, but a loophole that is being exploited by the manager and military guest reserving the spots.

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