Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2016, 09:34 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by OntarioFireFighter View Post
A 30A circuit is designed to be used to 24A (80% of rated OCP) - A 50A circuit will have more available power; so if you're pushing the 30A to it's max, there may be an advantage to using the 50A..
No, this isn't true. If your unit is a 30 amp then you will have a 30 amp breaker on your converter. The breaker is designed to heat up and trio at 80% (24 amps). You can have 200 amps available and it won't matter if your 30 amp main breaker is working properly.

The only advantage I can see is if the 30 amp service is overloaded or if the plug is badly worn and needs replaced. This can be a problem with the 50 amp service also as 50 amp is becoming more popular.


One last thought, use a good surge protector!

Jim
__________________

__________________
07 Dodge 1500 crew cab with 20" wheels, 08 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultra-lite 8280SS
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
oldtool2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 10:10 AM   #52
CDR USN Ret
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Full-Time
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rhino View Post
Since my portable Progressive Industries PT30C is at the pedestal, the 50A adapter/receptacle would have to fail which would only damage the plugs/receptacle & trip the breaker prior to the PT30C. Everything after the PT30C should, in theory, be protected..... .
There is a serious misunderstanding concerning protection provided by the Progressive Industries devices. It is based on a misunderstanding of the term "surge". A surge is a transient higher-than-normal voltage. It is a short-term (less than a second or so) excursion of voltage. If you understand Ohm's Law, you recognize that a surge will cause an increase in circuit current (overcurrent - too much amperage).
A surge protector monitors VOLTAGE and opens the circuit if a high VOLTAGE is detected and does this in a very short period of time (Progressive says less than a nanosecond). It does not monitor circuit current.
If you overload a circuit by adding too many loads, if the circuit is shorted, if a load is shorted, there is no abnormal voltage (surge) but there is an overcurrent situation. A surge protector will not shut down the circuit in these cases. An overcurrent device (fuse or circuit breaker) monitors current directly and opens to shut down the circuit. These devices are very slow acting (a couple of seconds to minutes).
Progressive Industries literature only indicates that their devices protect against abnormal voltage situations and frequency excursions - they never make the claim that they act as approved overcurrent protection devices. (The term "overcurrent protection device" carries a very specific meaning.
If you overload a circuit and there is no accompanying voltage problem, the surge protector/EMS will not protect the circuit.
__________________

__________________
2015 XLR415AMP
2011 3500HD Duramax/Allison/90 Gal Aux
2015 HD Limited Low
DSQR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 10:23 AM   #53
Canadian Member
 
itat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,902
DSQR, is there a commercially sold product you can add before your 30A power cord to protect from overcurrent?
__________________
itat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 10:24 AM   #54
CDR USN Ret
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Full-Time
Posts: 104
My comments on terminology. Although we all use electrical energy we often use improper terms.
Voltage is not power - it is the "pressure" which causes current to flow.
Amperes are not power - it is a flow of electrical energy
Watts is power - it is the product (multiply volts x amps)
We are not alone in this - a quote from PI's own literature "The EMS continuously monitors AC power. When AC power deviates below 104 volts or above 132 volts, the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV." This tells you the EMS is monitoring voltage, not power. If the voltage is incorrect, the device shuts off power to the RV (no voltage or current).
__________________
2015 XLR415AMP
2011 3500HD Duramax/Allison/90 Gal Aux
2015 HD Limited Low
DSQR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 10:44 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
Evereddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pfafftown NC
Posts: 2,068
DSQR.
Now there is a voice of knowledge. One of my pet peeve is people using technology words improperly. The brilliant marketing sector has polluted our language with improper use of words to sell their products. I hated seeing the changing of an "outlet strip" to calling it a Surge Protector. I have people where I work ask me for a surge protector and when I give them a real plug in wall surge protector they look at me like I'm crazy. An outlet strip may have a surge protector built in but it should not be called a surge protector when it is an outlet strip. So calling a power management system a surge protector is just plain wrong and doesn't accurately describe what the device does.
__________________
Evereddie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 10:45 AM   #56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NE Florida
Posts: 781
30 amps protects 10 gauge wire, which is the size wires in a 30 amp RV power cord. If plugged in to 50A recept. you are over your wire capacity plus your plug capacity on both ends of cord. I have done it, but not a good idea.
__________________
Papa GLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 11:21 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSQR View Post
There is a serious misunderstanding concerning protection provided by the Progressive Industries devices. It is based on a misunderstanding of the term "surge". A surge is a transient higher-than-normal voltage. It is a short-term (less than a second or so) excursion of voltage. If you understand Ohm's Law, you recognize that a surge will cause an increase in circuit current (overcurrent - too much amperage).
A surge protector monitors VOLTAGE and opens the circuit if a high VOLTAGE is detected and does this in a very short period of time (Progressive says less than a nanosecond). It does not monitor circuit current.
If you overload a circuit by adding too many loads, if the circuit is shorted, if a load is shorted, there is no abnormal voltage (surge) but there is an overcurrent situation. A surge protector will not shut down the circuit in these cases. An overcurrent device (fuse or circuit breaker) monitors current directly and opens to shut down the circuit. These devices are very slow acting (a couple of seconds to minutes).
Progressive Industries literature only indicates that their devices protect against abnormal voltage situations and frequency excursions - they never make the claim that they act as approved overcurrent protection devices. (The term "overcurrent protection device" carries a very specific meaning.
If you overload a circuit and there is no accompanying voltage problem, the surge protector/EMS will not protect the circuit.
I just looked at the list of errors my potable surge protector has and it appears the unit is primarily a voltage monitoring device. For an over currant problem the breaker on the converter will have to trip. but, figuring in ohms law, an over currant problem could be caused by a low voltage problem tripping the surge protector. PI covers everything pretty well. They don't miss any problem that I can think of off the top of my head. They make the best affordable device I have seen.

All the trailers I have had, 5 so far, have been 30 amp units. I carry a 50 to 30 amp converter plug but I have not had to use it yet. IMO it is like insurance, a waste of money till you need it, if you ever need it. When I rolled my Jeep and trailer I was glad I had it!

Jim
__________________
07 Dodge 1500 crew cab with 20" wheels, 08 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultra-lite 8280SS
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
oldtool2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 11:33 AM   #58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa GLS View Post
30 amps protects 10 gauge wire, which is the size wires in a 30 amp RV power cord. If plugged in to 50A recept. you are over your wire capacity plus your plug capacity on both ends of cord. I have done it, but not a good idea.
Does anyone make a device that converts a 50 amp plug to a 30 amp plug with a 30 amp breaker? This would protect the cord.

Jim
__________________
07 Dodge 1500 crew cab with 20" wheels, 08 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultra-lite 8280SS
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
oldtool2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 12:00 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer55 View Post
all you have to do is use it as a thirty, bigger wire never hurts, just reduce it down with the smaller breaker, and receptacle and waalla
Huh?? I want to know if anyone makes a 50 to 30 mp plug with 30 amp breaker in it. This would protect the 10 guage wiring used in a 30 amp power cord used on a 30 amp trailer. As was pointed out, using the plugs I have seen supply no protection to the power cord because you are plugging into a 50 amp breaker. Your reply makes no sense.to me.

Jim
__________________
07 Dodge 1500 crew cab with 20" wheels, 08 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultra-lite 8280SS
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
oldtool2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 03:10 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Orlando
Posts: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSQR View Post
You're confusing a single 240V 50A circuit (as used in your sticks and bricks house) with two separate 120V 50A circuits (as used in a 50A RV). Both use a 50A two-pole circuit breaker. This is made by connecting two single pole 50A circuit breakers side-by-side, and tying the two single pole breaker handles together with a handle tie.
Thanks for the explanation.
__________________

__________________
Brewhedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
50 amp, power

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 PM.