Pink Stuff: all the same?

[5picker]

If blowing out is 'good enough,' I wonder why R/V manufacturers have not begun to install blow out ports instead of winterizing/antifreeze ports?

Ingesting R/V antifreeze into the plumbing is the industry accepted method for freeze protection, hence the winterization port on many units straight from the factory. You are certainly welcome to do whatever you want or don't want.

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by 5picker

If blowing out is 'good enough,' I wonder why R/V manufacturers have not begun to install blow out ports instead of winterizing/antifreeze ports?

Ingesting R/V antifreeze into the plumbing is the industry accepted method for freeze protection, hence the winterization port on many units straight from the factory. You are certainly welcome to do whatever you want or don't want.

It would be a nice option, thats for sure. but the little brass plug for $5 gets the job done. not all of us have a compressor that is up to the task (or have a compressor at all) or even a place to do it (renters and people with an HOA that ban it).

it is interesting though that in ground sprinkler systems only blow out and do not add an antifreeze.

[NJKris]

I have had a hot tub up here in freezing winters NJ for past 18 years. Many winters I've drained the tub and blown out the lines using the exhaust on my shop vac. Never had any damage from ice. Probably double the plumbing any RV has with the two dozen or so jets.

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by IsleDog

It would be a nice option, thats for sure. but the little brass plug for $5 gets the job done. not all of us have a compressor that is up to the task (or have a compressor at all) or even a place to do it (renters and people with an HOA that ban it).

it is interesting though that in ground sprinkler systems only blow out and do not add an antifreeze.

I do have a compressor in my garage but I also have a little $20 slime brand 12v tire inflator that will do the job in a pinch.

I have a little portable air tank from Harbor Freight. They list it as a "5 gallon" tank but it's obviously not that big. Maybe 3-4 gal. Cheap and light. I use that to blow out my rig. I can fill it in the garage (or use the cheap 12v inflator) and easily carry it to the trailer for blow out prior to pumping in the AF. I have actually filled the tank at home and taken it to Florida for use when we are ready to come home in the middle of February. Some years the forecast is warm enough that I wait until I get back in my driveway to winterize and some years it's gonna be well below freezing on the trip home and I have to do it the last afternoon before we head north.

I have a brass male garden hose fitting to attach to the city water port in my trailer. I have quick connect air fitting on the garden hose fitting and just use a short air hose so I can sit the air tank on the ground.

I open a faucet inside before connecting the tank because the tank is typically charged to 90 psi.
With a faucet open the water lines don't see that much pressure due to the restriction of the small air fitting.

I plug in the air hose and run inside and cycle the faucets on and off starting at the farthest away from the inlet.

If I'm home in the driveway I will pump in the AF and then blow it out again just so I don't have so much AF in there to flush out in the spring.

Sounds like a lot but I can do the whole thing in less than 30 min and use about 1 2/3 gallons of AF.
YMMV!

[mrfikser]

first off I was thinking the question was about insulation (pink stuff= pink panther/owens corning fiberglass insulation), now we got that straight... the main reason for the 2 types of antifreeze for RVs is that one (propylene glycol) costs more and the other (ethanol) readily evaporates in its [more] pure form (ethanol when mixed with certain other liquids evaporates much more slowly), so if you mix the 2 you get a cheaper more stable low freezing point liquid... Also (from personal experience) I have found that pure propolene glycol tends to 'gel' over time, so if you leave it in the pipes/lines of your RV for a long time (say, you don't take your RV out for a year) it can gel and stick to the walls of the pipes and take a long time to remove, with several fillings of the lines- waiting a day or so and then rinsing to get it all out ...I found this out the hard way when I bought a used trailer that had be sitting for a few years with pure ethelene glycol in the pipes (although it probably wouldn't have mattered if it was a mix or not at that point)….Also for the blow out the lines with air group, on RVs this works much better than say a house or some other structure with ridged piping, copper/iron/PVC piping expand very little before they break also the fitting are mostly 90degrees so that when the expanding water freezes in them it pushes directly on the corner fitting, whereas pex (used in most RVs) usually is just bent gently around corners so lengthwise expansion is not such a big deal....Don't get me wrong, you still need to blow out the lines being extra careful to make sure that valves/pumps are mostly dry such as the main water pump and the valve for the toilet flush and that you drain any water filters and hot water tanks but some water left over in the long pex water lines that run under the floor etc. are much less prone to breaking than in a 'real house'....

[MR.M]

rv anti freeze does not have ethanol in it it has ethyl alcohol , good but evaporates and can dry out seals . i will only use the propylene glycol mix way better

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by MR.M

rv anti freeze does not have ethanol in it it has ethyl alcohol ,

Uh.... Um..... Uh....... Well... I guess you can't argue with that.



It also contains dihydrogen monoxide and hydroxyl acid as well--both of which are well known to accelerate the corrosion of certain metals and cause suffocation, and in extreme exposure incidents, skin burns and blisters.

[Midnight Barbecue]

Originally Posted by Jamnut

I once destroyed the FW system in our pop-up using ethanol based RV antifreeze. I did not know that ethanol is a marvelous host for a black mold called Baudoinia. It doesn't even have to be liquid ethanol. Baudoinia is a very aggressive mold that will grow when exposed to ethanol vapor in less than 1 part per million in air. The inside of my white FW tank was completely black. I can only imagine what the inside of the plumbing lines looked like.

I recently scrubbed it off 3 gasoline cans in my shed. All the gas in my area has at least 10% ethanol in it.

I now only use propylene glycol based RV antifreeze.

Happy Trails,
Jamnut

An advertised quality of the brand 'RV Plus' is that it doesn't contain glycerin, which "has been known to grow mold". It does list both glycol and methyl alcohol as ingredients

[mrfikser]

Originally Posted by MR.M

rv anti freeze does not have ethanol in it it has ethyl alcohol , good but evaporates and can dry out seals . i will only use the propylene glycol mix way better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

[MR.M]

[QUOTE=BriaBeck;1956643]Uh.... Um..... Uh....... Well... I guess you can't argue with that.



It also contains dihydrogen monoxide and hydroxyl acid as well--both of which are well known to accelerate the corrosion of certain metals and cause suffocation, and in extreme exposure incidents, skin burns and blisters.[/QUOTE
prestone rv antifreeze only contains water and glycol .http://midsouthsales.com/wp-content/...1/SDSAF222.pdf

[kevin79]

The dealer I got my TT from said they used to just blow out the water lines but when it got really cold a couple years ago, they had a lot of lined that froze so they now use RV antifreeze.

[wanderer26]

I live in southwest michigan not far from the big lake. All we have ever done is blow everything out with air. Have never had a problem. Been doing it that way since 1970. Some winters here are mild. But we have our share of below zero wx for days on end. I will never put antifreeze of any kind in my water system as i don’t trust the companies that make it. 3M told us there was nothing wrong with the agent orange i sprayed in vietnam. I have had cancer for over two years now from it. I rest my case!!!

[joeuncool]

Originally Posted by IsleDog

it is interesting though that in ground sprinkler systems only blow out and do not add an antifreeze.

Psst, a properly installed sprinkler system doesn't need a blowout but the sprinkler system industry won't tell you that. Too much money in it. Haven't blown out my sprinkler system in 30 years and I live in Colorado.

I do blow out my RV though. No chemicals for me.

[bobstepsup]

They are all pretty much the same. Just pay attention to the lowest freeze point. Menards had it on sale for $1.95 a Gallon. Can't beat that price. Here in Michigan it can get real cold.

[rk06382]

I'm in Alaska & and it get down to -20F where I live. I had a local RV dealer winterize my FR3 yesterday. They offer a certified winterization & summarization package for $100. I only had to do the sewer dump first. Another local RV dealer will do the winterization & summarization package for $119.95.

I know the RV Tech and we talked as he winterize my FR3. He only used compressed air & a half gallon of red propylene glycol. The air compressor has an air dryer to remove water from the compressed air.

First he opened the pressure relief valve on the hot water heater to remove any water pressure. Then he put the hot water heater into bypass and removed the anode and drained the water.

Then he opened the low point drain to empty the FW tank. Then he pulled out the winterization hose and connected the air hose to it. This is to blow out the water from the water pump. Then he opened and closed each water faucet, shower and toilet valve till air came out for a few minutes.

Then he moved the air hose to the City water connection repeated the opening and closing of each water faucet, shower and toilet water valve. Then he moved the air hose to blow out the FW fill connection. Finally he blew out the black tank flush connection.

His last step was to use the red propylene glycol. He poured some into each sink, shower drains and filled the toilet bowl to cover the gasket.

This is not meant to be a complete list of things to do to winterize. I may have missed a step. The point I am making is no propylene glycol went into my water lines and I will not have pink water in the spring. Also the propylene glycol is good to -50F.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by joeuncool

Psst, a properly installed sprinkler system doesn't need a blowout but the sprinkler system industry won't tell you that. Too much money in it. Haven't blown out my sprinkler system in 30 years and I live in Colorado.

I do blow out my RV though. No chemicals for me.

i call bs on that . if you don't blow out the system the valves will freeze as they are only a foot or less below the surface . the poly lines can freeze and they will expand but the plastic head will crack . the back flow preventer and lines heading to the system will freeze . how do i know this i liv e in colorado and have done hundreds of systems and seen what happens when they don't get blownout

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by rk06382

I'm in Alaska & and it get down to -20F where I live. I had a local RV dealer winterize my FR3 yesterday. They offer a certified winterization & summarization package for $100. I only had to do the sewer dump first. Another local RV dealer will do the winterization & summarization package for $119.95.

I know the RV Tech and we talked as he winterize my FR3. He only used compressed air & a half gallon of red propylene glycol. The air compressor has an air dryer to remove water from the compressed air.

First he opened the pressure relief valve on the hot water heater to remove any water pressure. Then he put the hot water heater into bypass and removed the anode and drained the water.

Then he opened the low point drain to empty the FW tank. Then he pulled out the winterization hose and connected the air hose to it. This is to blow out the water from the water pump. Then he opened and closed each water faucet, shower and toilet valve till air came out for a few minutes.

Then he moved the air hose to the City water connection repeated the opening and closing of each water faucet, shower and toilet water valve. Then he moved the air hose to blow out the FW fill connection. Finally he blew out the black tank flush connection.

His last step was to use the red propylene glycol. He poured some into each sink, shower drains and filled the toilet bowl to cover the gasket.

This is not meant to be a complete list of things to do to winterize. I may have missed a step. The point I am making is no propylene glycol went into my water lines and I will not have pink water in the spring. Also the propylene glycol is good to -50F.

Glycol will not hurt the water lines nor cause any taste issue or health issues . they use it in food products , make ice cream etc with the glycol that's in the antifreeze . when i did my house for a few winters i used a 50% mixture of pure glycol and water and was good to well below -100

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by joeuncool

Psst, a properly installed sprinkler system doesn't need a blowout but the sprinkler system industry won't tell you that. Too much money in it. Haven't blown out my sprinkler system in 30 years and I live in Colorado.

I do blow out my RV though. No chemicals for me.

I too lived in Colorado and never blew out my sprinkler system. Installed it myself and incorporated low point automatic drains in every "run".

System "winterized" itself every time it shut off. Moment pressure left the system the automatic drain valves opened and lines merely drained by gravity. Of course it helped that all my lawn area was on a slope.

If RV's were plumbed so all water lines sloped to a true low point we could do the same. Just open the low point drain and all water in the system would just drain out. Unfortunately that doesn't work for water pumps, strainers, filters, elbows and points along the lines that just 'droop'.

If one were to blow the system out like most sprinkler companies do around here, leaving the compressor running for about an hour until no vapor is visible from sprinkler heads, then I would agree that just a good blow out is enough. Unfortunately, most people I know just hook up their small portable compressor, blow until most water is out, then stop. Remaining water then drains back into one of the low areas, often an elbow or hard fitting, and when it freezes the fitting cracks.

I asked the question, what's the difference, in a different thread not realizing this one had already started. Found by just looking at contents that nor all "Pink Stuff" is equal. Some is clearly marked "Non Toxic" and others caution to make sure system is cleanly flushed before using FW system again.

I went with the "all propolene glycol" product. Around here there is no such thing as ''$2.99 RV Anti-Freeze". Entry level stuff (Ethanol-Poly) sells for just under $5 on sale. Considering the hassle of repairing pump and any other seals I figure I can afford an extra $20 for the non-alcoholic stuff (my TT uses about 4 gallons total).

I can also go with the fact that the non-alcoholic stuff doesn't leave a lingering bad taste in the water system in the spring.

[joeuncool]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I too lived in Colorado and never blew out my sprinkler system. Installed it myself and incorporated low point automatic drains in every "run".

System "winterized" itself every time it shut off. Moment pressure left the system the automatic drain valves opened and lines merely drained by gravity. Of course it helped that all my lawn area was on a slope.

Yup, a properly installed system.

Also what you said about blowing out the RV is correct. You have to blow that out until you get nothing. I blow out each line one at a time until I think I get nothing. Then, once I blow them all out, I go around one more time. In most instances it is dry buy now and then get some vapor the second time around. Must take your time. Took me 2 hours total time.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I too lived in Colorado and never blew out my sprinkler system. Installed it myself and incorporated low point automatic drains in every "run".

System "winterized" itself every time it shut off. Moment pressure left the system the automatic drain valves opened and lines merely drained by gravity. Of course it helped that all my lawn area was on a slope.

If RV's were plumbed so all water lines sloped to a true low point we could do the same. Just open the low point drain and all water in the system would just drain out. Unfortunately that doesn't work for water pumps, strainers, filters, elbows and points along the lines that just 'droop'.

If one were to blow the system out like most sprinkler companies do around here, leaving the compressor running for about an hour until no vapor is visible from sprinkler heads, then I would agree that just a good blow out is enough. Unfortunately, most people I know just hook up their small portable compressor, blow until most water is out, then stop. Remaining water then drains back into one of the low areas, often an elbow or hard fitting, and when it freezes the fitting cracks.

I asked the question, what's the difference, in a different thread not realizing this one had already started. Found by just looking at contents that nor all "Pink Stuff" is equal. Some is clearly marked "Non Toxic" and others caution to make sure system is cleanly flushed before using FW system again.

I went with the "all propolene glycol" product. Around here there is no such thing as ''$2.99 RV Anti-Freeze". Entry level stuff (Ethanol-Poly) sells for just under $5 on sale. Considering the hassle of repairing pump and any other seals I figure I can afford an extra $20 for the non-alcoholic stuff (my TT uses about 4 gallons total).

I can also go with the fact that the non-alcoholic stuff doesn't leave a lingering bad taste in the water system in the spring.

Very few systems are installed with self draining valves and most of the ones that are designed that way are not installed correctly. Blowing out systems is a Necessity in most cases. Using 150psi is not 40 will do just fine . Even good self draining system can leave enough water in the valves to damage them . Though sprinkler systems can tolerate some water freezing in the lines and will not damage the n in a RV it.s a different story . RV get blown out and then pumped with glycol . Why chance it !