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Old 09-25-2016, 05:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Walking thunder View Post
Ok. First piece of advice is take it to an RV repair facility and have them do a full winterization. If they let you watch you will see it done correctly. DO NOT USE AUTOMOTIVE ANTIFREEZE. RV antifreeze is non toxic and safe to use in water lines.
When we do a winterization for a customer the low point drains are opened and use air to blow out all the lines. The bypass valve on the water heater is put in the correct position then RV antifreeze is pumped through out the water system. All water filters must be removed if you have a washer/dryer or dish machine there is a process that must be follows as well as an ice maker in the fridge. Don't let anyone tell you that blowing out the lines only is ok. Too many places for the water to hide and freeze/break. If storing outside I would invest in an RV cover. Your rubber roof will be better off. Make sure to put rodent poison in all exterior comp and inside as well.
I've been blowing out my lines, with no antifreeze, for a number of years and have never had a problem; many others on this forum do the same. I only put antifreeze in the P-traps. We've been through -20 degrees for 3 straight weeks in my neck of the woods. You just have to do it WELL.

Also, in addition to putting the HWH bypass valve in the "correct position" (i.e., open), you forgot to mention putting the inlet and outlet valves in the "correct position" (i.e., closed). If you don't, and you use the RV antifreeze, you'll be pumping AF into your HWH. You don't really want to do that.
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Old 09-26-2016, 12:06 AM   #12
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:26 AM   #13
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The goal is to get as much water out as possible. There are several places that the water cannot be completely removed, and as long as there is ample room for freeze/thaw expansion, its not a problem.

This is generally how I do my winterization:

http://www.2001mirada.com/winterizing/

The Black and gray tanks must be drained and the drain valves left open. When draining the rest of the system and blowing or pumping water out of the lines, the water will flow into the black and gray tanks and must be allowed to drain out of those tanks.

Here are my key areas that I like to make sure have antifreeze.

City water connection and plumbing.

This line usually has a back flow prevention valve that prevents draining or winterization any other way other than forced air.

On mine the back flow valve is leaking, (probably damaged from not being winterized) I can loosen the outside connection cap, turn my pump on, and water will flow out of the city water connection. This is great, when I winterize and pump antifreeze through my system, I loosen the cap and watch for pink. I know antifreeze is now in this portion of the plumbing.

Water Heater

I drain the water heater (and the rest of the plumbing) , With my pump drawing out of the antifreeze jug, I turn the pump on until I see pink coming out of the water heater drain.

On mine, I now close the bypass valves and run antifreeze to all the working faucets and toilet.

Water pump

The pump is sucking out of the jug, so it will have antifreeze in it.


Fresh Tank

A small amount of water will remain in the fresh tank after draining, I dump a little antifreeze in the fresh tank for my piece of mind.


P traps, Sinks, shower, etc

I dump about 1 cup of antifreeze into each sink / drain to ensure there is antifreeze in the p-trap.


Toilet

Dump a cup of antifreeze into the toilet bowl.


BLACK and GRAY tank


Leave the dump valves open, anything water that is inside will drain out.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:30 AM   #14
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antifreeze

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Originally Posted by Toddupton View Post
Sure it might freeze at 12 degrees but it will not expand above -50

The way I see it.
If it starts to freeze at +12 it is expanding more and more from that temp all the way to bursting a COPPER pipe at -50.

I have yet to see what the bursting temperature is for pex tubing.

Does anyone out there know?

That's why I use -100 antifreeze.


C. B.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:20 AM   #15
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The way I see it.
If it starts to freeze at +12 it is expanding more and more from that temp all the way to bursting a COPPER pipe at -50.

I have yet to see what the bursting temperature is for pex tubing.

Does anyone out there know?

That's why I use -100 antifreeze.


C. B.
RV antifreeze will (and does) freeze/get slushy but DOES NOT expand when frozen so even if it freezes, it WILL NOT burst pipes. In fact, it contracts slightly.

Water is the ONLY liquid that expands when frozen.
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:13 AM   #16
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rv antifreeze

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Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
RV antifreeze will (and does) freeze/get slushy but DOES NOT expand when frozen so even if it freezes, it WILL NOT burst pipes. In fact, it contracts slightly.

Water is the ONLY liquid that expands when frozen.

The below statement is copied from the label on 1 gallon bottle of Star brite -100 RV Antifreeze.

"When we say that an antifreeze fluid protects to -100 F, it means that a copper pipe filled with that product will burst at -100 F. The actual undiluted solution will start to form ice crystals at approximately -60 F. The temperature at which ice crystals start to form is called the freezing point.

As the temperature drops, the solution continues to form denser ice crystals and EXPANDS. As the solutions EXPANDS, it puts pressure on the pipe and at -100 F the copper pipe will burst. A PVC pipe will burst at about -80 F since it is not as strong as a copper pipe."


So Who is right?????????

All I know is I'm sticking with -100 F

Better safe than sorry.


C.B.
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Old 09-26-2016, 12:28 PM   #17
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Something many fail to mention when winterizing. On the city water inlet there is a checkvalve (backflow). Carefully remove the small screen and stick you little finger in and release water trapped behind the checkvalve.
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Old 09-26-2016, 12:49 PM   #18
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I believe that either of the two methods alone will work fine, that being compressed air and antifreeze. FWIW I use both. Below are my steps:

* switch water system in bypass mode
*remove caps form water low point lines and open up a hot & cold water tap to let the lines drain. then replace caps
*remove anode and drain water heater and flush out any debris (mineral deposits)
*replace anode, including new teflon tape
*attach water lines (City water fill) to compressor (set compressor at 35PSI)
*start at the farthest point from water pump and open each tap, including o/d shower until water is blown out of system. don't forget the toilet.
*disconnect compressor and pump RV antifreeze through the lines until it starts coming out each tap (and toilet).
*dump a cup or two down each P trap.
*wipe rubber gasket on toilet stopper with silicone grease
*push drain plugs into place in the sinks
*dump a couple of cups of antifreeze in grey and black tanks.
*add nothing to the fresh waster tank.

Next spring: hook up city water and push out the antifreeze (leave in by pass mode). Sanitize the fresh water tank and line with bleach, then take the system out of bypass mode ans you should be good to go.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cbvp View Post
The below statement is copied from the label on 1 gallon bottle of Star brite -100 RV Antifreeze.

"When we say that an antifreeze fluid protects to -100 F, it means that a copper pipe filled with that product will burst at -100 F. The actual undiluted solution will start to form ice crystals at approximately -60 F. The temperature at which ice crystals start to form is called the freezing point.

As the temperature drops, the solution continues to form denser ice crystals and EXPANDS. As the solutions EXPANDS, it puts pressure on the pipe and at -100 F the copper pipe will burst. A PVC pipe will burst at about -80 F since it is not as strong as a copper pipe."


So Who is right?????????

All I know is I'm sticking with -100 F

Better safe than sorry.

C.B.

I don't know about right or safe???

The MSDS for that stuff indicates they do not know the freezing point.
Page three indicates: "melting/freezing point - Not available."

Not sure how they can make the claim -100 or -200 or the formation of 'ice crystals' if they don't know the freezing point?

They also go on to say...
"Symptoms/Injuries After Ingestion: Acute exposure of humans to ethylene glycol by ingesting large quantities causes three stages of
health effects. CNS depression, including such symptoms as vomiting, drowsiness, coma, respiratory failure, convulsions, metabolic
changes, and gastrointestinal upset are followed by cardiopulmonary effects and later renal damage.

Pay close attention to the words I highlighted... Ethylene glycol.
This is automotive antifreeze and is poisonous.

They do state (prior to that statement) it is made from Propylene glycol.
My point is... there is a BUNCH of confusing stuff being 'stated' about this particular product so believe what you think appropriate.

They also say on their web site it is suitable for use in engines and has corrosion inhibitors added.

-110 or -200 protection or not... I'm not putting any of that product in my potable water plumbing.

*HERE* is a link to the product. Click on the MSDS link and read for yourself.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:51 PM   #20
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Pex u saly will expand and contract not bust but the fittings will split.
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