towing with 1/2 ton truck

[B and B]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

Well, the ecoboost in the F150 is in boost almost all the time and I haven't heard of any systemic problems with the turbos on them. The parts of an F150 that would 'get overused' are not the turbos. The suspension and brakes would come into question well before the motor.

Driving dry the Turbos run all the time. The truck peels rubber with the least pressure of my right foot.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by B and B

Driving dry the Turbos run all the time. The truck peels rubber with the least pressure of my right foot.

True that^^^^

The truck by itself will put the engine in boost unless you are stopped at a light or coasting downhill.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

I am not understanding how you are saying that adding the listed items will make a standard truck more capable than a max tow equipped truck? Yes, those items will help, but they won't make it more capable TV than a max tow equipped truck.

In order to have max tow, his truck would be required to have 3.73 gears. Max tow adds a heavier front suspension and in some cases (not all) adds a heavier rear suspension. The 7650/7700 cannot be had without 3.73 and max tow. If he has 3.55 he would have the GVWR would likely be in the lesser 7200 range.


OP: You didn't state whether or not you have max tow or the 535 towing package. Good info to know would be rear end gears, GVWR, FGAWR, RGAWR, particular tow package, current tires, any suspension mods (current or planned), etc. . . As others have stated, without this type of information, it would be difficult to truly answer your question correctly.

The MaxTow package gives: 3.73 gears, different rear spring code than the 18" wheel trucks but same as 20" wheel trucks(I have one and have compared codes), tow mirrors, IBC, and an "upgraded bumper". The gear change makes little difference in newer 6 speed transmissions. The more gears you have the less space you have between gears. Older 4 speeds that were actually 3 speeds when you locked out OD were much more dependent upon lower gear ratios to be able to move loads. Also, lower gears were more necessary with naturally aspirated engines that needed to rev higher to produce power- not an issue with the EB. Very experienced drivers I know that run EB's with 3.55's claim no real need in gearing the EB that low. New F250's with the 6.7 actually come standard with 3.31s. That would have been unheard of in a 4 speed diesel of the late 90s! The only upgrade to a MaxTow that would actually have any affect on the trucks load carrying (not load pulling) capacity is the rear spring upgrade. Once again, my truck with the 20" wheel option has the same front and rear spring codes as the MaxTow trucks. By adding air bags, I now have 3 load contact points on the frame as opposed to 2. Also, MaxTow trucks come with the P rated tires that are known to be "squirmy". By upgrading tires you have eliminated that issue. So, yes, I stand by my comment that my truck is more capable than a MaxTow truck. BTW, I added the Ford tow mirrors and the package mine came with had the IBC and the rear view camera.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

The MaxTow package gives: 3.73 gears, different rear spring code than the 18" wheel trucks but same as 20" wheel trucks(I have one and have compared codes), tow mirrors, IBC, and an "upgraded bumper". The gear change makes little difference in newer 6 speed transmissions. The more gears you have the less space you have between gears. Older 4 speeds that were actually 3 speeds when you locked out OD were much more dependent upon lower gear ratios to be able to move loads. Also, lower gears were more necessary with naturally aspirated engines that needed to rev higher to produce power- not an issue with the EB. Very experienced drivers I know that run EB's with 3.55's claim no real need in gearing the EB that low. New F250's with the 6.7 actually come standard with 3.31s. That would have been unheard of in a 4 speed diesel of the late 90s! The only upgrade to a MaxTow that would actually have any affect on the trucks load carrying (not load pulling) capacity is the rear spring upgrade. Once again, my truck with the 20" wheel option has the same front and rear spring codes as the MaxTow trucks. By adding air bags, I now have 3 load contact points on the frame as opposed to 2. Also, MaxTow trucks come with the P rated tires that are known to be "squirmy". By upgrading tires you have eliminated that issue. So, yes, I stand by my comment that my truck is more capable than a MaxTow truck. BTW, I added the Ford tow mirrors and the package mine came with had the IBC and the rear view camera.

I think you are misunderstanding some of the things Ford has done.

The max tow package "requires" 3.73 gears. Meaning you cannot select Max Tow unless you have previously selected 3.73 gears. Yes, that is a little semantics, but it is from Ford not me.

Not sure what you mean on the "rear spring code" comment, but if your truck was upgraded to 20" wheels, Ford selected/upgraded your truck to the 4050 GAWR rear end (which is the 9.75 version). It says exactly that in the Ford F150 spec document.

Assuming you have a 7200/7350 GVWR, you should check your FGAWR again. The front GAWR of a Max Tow is higher than a non-Max Tow. That is why they rate the GVWR higher. That is definitely a "load carrying" capability. That rating comes from an upgraded wire diameter on the front springs(again listed in the Ford F150 spec document). IMO that allows you to move more weight forward on the truck. You cannot match that on a non-Max Tow truck. In my case ('13 FX4 w/20" wheels, 145" WB, Screw, 3.55), the truck is a 7200GVWR with 4050 RGAWR and a 3750 FGAWR. A similar truck with Max Tow would be 4050 RGAWR and a 3900 FGAWR. No the 150 does not make up for what would be a 7650GVWR(7700 for 157" WB), but it is Ford's version of Congressional math.

The upgraded rear bumper allows another 100ish pounds of weight on the hitch itself.

EDIT: C rated 18" LT tires are an option on the F150, although I am unsure whether they are "only" optional on a Max Tow (which I am sure of) or whether they are optional on any F150(which I have personally never seen from the factory).

Are the non-Max Tow trucks with the 9.75 rear end under-rated for GVWR and payload? IMO the answer is a firm, yes.

In the end, the addition of air bags and E rated tires can also be done to a Max Tow to make it even more capable. So if I made those changes to mine and a similar Max Tow owner made those same changes we would not be equal.

[donanddona]

I have been towing my 5r for five years now. The only thing I did to my Tundra was to remove the "P" type passenger tires and install "LT" Continental's. It pulls fine. However I'm retired and average 53-55mph/at 9.5 mph avg.. Lots of 5rs pass me. Now come to think of it just about everybody passes me. But, it saves my brakes!!!

[Rockwoodjoe]

I have a 2013 F-150 5.0 3.55 and pull a Rockwood 2703 ws dry weight 6471. tongue weight adjusted to about 750 lbs. MY F-150 cargo/passenger weight is rating is 1761 lbs. I wouldn't want to pull anything heavier especially a fiver. I wish I had gotten the HD towing package.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by joe wessling

I have a 2013 F-150 5.0 3.55 and pull a Rockwood 2703 ws dry weight 6471. tongue weight adjusted to about 750 lbs. MY F-150 cargo/passenger weight is rating is 1761 lbs. I wouldn't want to pull anything heavier especially a fiver. I wish I had gotten the HD towing package.

The eco can out-pull the 5.0 easily. More weight on the suspension is more of an issue IMO.

The HD confuses some people. The HD is a payload package, but in etis on the build details it lists "Heavy Duty Trailer Towing" on 535 towing equipped trucks. That is the lesser package compared to the Max Tow option.
I assume you were talking about the payload package.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

I think you are misunderstanding some of the things Ford has done.

The max tow package "requires" 3.73 gears. Meaning you cannot select Max Tow unless you have previously selected 3.73 gears. Yes, that is a little semantics, but it is from Ford not me.

Not sure what you mean on the "rear spring code" comment, but if your truck was upgraded to 20" wheels, Ford selected/upgraded your truck to the 4050 GAWR rear end (which is the 9.75 version). It says exactly that in the Ford F150 spec document.

Assuming you have a 7200/7350 GVWR, you should check your FGAWR again. The front GAWR of a Max Tow is higher than a non-Max Tow. That is why they rate the GVWR higher. That is definitely a "load carrying" capability. That rating comes from an upgraded wire diameter on the front springs(again listed in the Ford F150 spec document). IMO that allows you to move more weight forward on the truck. You cannot match that on a non-Max Tow truck. In my case ('13 FX4 w/20" wheels, 145" WB, Screw, 3.55), the truck is a 7200GVWR with 4050 RGAWR and a 3750 FGAWR. A similar truck with Max Tow would be 4050 RGAWR and a 3900 FGAWR. No the 150 does not make up for what would be a 7650GVWR(7700 for 157" WB), but it is Ford's version of Congressional math.

The upgraded rear bumper allows another 100ish pounds of weight on the hitch itself.

E rated LT tires are an option on the F150, although I am unsure whether they are "only" optional on a Max Tow (which I am sure of) or whether they are optional on any F150(which I have personally never seen from the factory).

Are the non-Max Tow trucks with the 9.75 rear end under-rated for GVWR and payload? IMO the answer is a firm, yes.

In the end, the addition of air bags and E rated tires can also be done to a Max Tow to make it even more capable. So if I made those changes to mine and a similar Max Tow owner made those same changes we would not be equal.

I am fully aware that 3.73's are included and not optional on MaxTow. Not sure why you think I don't know that? Also, you do NOT get a different size ring gear until you step up to the HD Payload. As far as the spring code comment- if you'll look at your build tag on the door jamb, it will list the spring codes. The front spring code on a MaxTow is exactly the same as all regular tow package EBs, whereas the rear code is different from EBs without 20's, but the same as ones with 20's.

[OldCoot]

This thread is like kids arguing, "My old man can whip your old man!"

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

The eco can out-pull the 5.0 easily. More weight on the suspension is more of an issue IMO.

The HD confuses some people. The HD is a payload package, but in etis on the build details it lists "Heavy Duty Trailer Towing" on 535 towing equipped trucks. That is the lesser package compared to the Max Tow option.
I assume you were talking about the payload package.

If I'm reading this correctly, you have it exactly backwards. The HD Payload INCLUDES everything the MaxTow has and more. The MaxTow is the lesser package. HD payload adds 7 lug wheels with E rated tires, the 9.75" rear diff and heavier springs and shocks.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

This thread is like kids arguing, "My old man can whip your old man!"

I'm not arguing, I'm just proving why I'm right!!!!

[madmaxmutt]

Ummm, I got it from your statement here.

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

The MaxTow package gives: 3.73 gears, . . .

You are not giving any facts here. I am not sure where you are getting your info from, but I get mine from Ford documents.

HD Payload package:


2013 Spring ratings:


2013 Leafs:



What is your FGAWR? If it is 3900, then you are correct. Otherwise, a similarly equipped Max Tow will not have the same one as your non-Max Tow.

I also don't imagine your truck has XA code front springs. What does your truck list as it's spring codes?
Here is a (157" 7700GVWR) max tow example of spring codes directly from a build list:
"
4L34 5310 XA Left Front Coil
4L34 5310 XA Right Front Coil
CL34-5560-J* Left/Rear Leaf Spring
CL34-5560-J* Right/Rear Leaf Spring"

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I'm not arguing, I'm just proving why I'm right!!!!

I am merely providing accurate information.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

If I'm reading this correctly, you have it exactly backwards. The HD Payload INCLUDES everything the MaxTow has and more. The MaxTow is the lesser package. HD payload adds 7 lug wheels with E rated tires, the 9.75" rear diff and heavier springs and shocks.

Good Lord man!

The 535 is not the Max Tow package.

Of course, the HD Payload is bigger than the Max Tow (and therefore the 535). That wasn't the point of the post.

[TURBS]

Man I'm so over popcorn!

Prime rib and a beer for this one.

Turbs

[offroad]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

New F250's with the 6.7 actually come standard with 3.31s. That would have been unheard of in a 4 speed diesel of the late 90s!

Depends on how they were ordered, my 97 has a 3.54 LSD in it.

[dustman_stx]

Once again, my statements clearly indicate that the MaxTow comes with 3.73's

Also, you clearly stated that the HD is the "lesser of the packages". That's not the case. It is basically an upgraded MaxTow.

I did find the fleet doc you are referring to in your last image. I wrongly assumed that since the HD package CLEARLY indicates "9.75 gear set" non HD's would have something different. Not sure why it's listed as an upgrade in that package when it isn't????

As far as my comment about the springs. I have compared my spring codes from my door jamb (145" SCrew, 4x4, 20" wheels) to a MaxTow SCrew and the codes were identical. UUGG, if I remember correctly. Another truck identical to mine except for 18" wheels had UUAA, if I remember correctly.

If you analyze your doc closely, you'll see that the FAWR doesn't change on any truck, regardless of MaxTow or HD package. The only change is when going from 145" to 157".

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by offroad

Depends on how they were ordered, my 97 has a 3.54 LSD in it.

I think it actually would have had a 3.55 LSD, as I had one.

But that was the highest ratio you could get. And I THINK that 3.73's were the lowest you could get in the 99-03's. And those were considered "highway gears". Everyone knew those serious about towing went with the 4.10's, which was the only other option in 97.

[dustman_stx]

madmax, I just caught the footnote about the 20" tire option having the 4050 GAWR. I assume that change in GAWR is there because of the rear spring being the same as the max tow rear spring. Therefore, I have exactly the same axle capacities and the exact same springs as the MaxTow. Further solidifies my position that the only difference is the number on the sticker, as far as payload goes.

[offroad]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Everyone knew those serious about towing went with the 4.10's, which was the only other option in 97.

FIL ordered the truck new and was happy with the higher ratio towing a high profile 36' three slide 5'ver (he was patient).
Its now mildly modded, and meets my needs towing a similar length but much lighter TT just fine.