4 big trips, time for a little warranty work, right?

[boondoggled]

Since getting our 2514G in January we've had four nice trips so far!

One at Mueller State Park for 4 days. A week at Yellowstone. A few days at Turquoise Lake, and Pearl Lake State Park.

We don't have any trips planned for the next several weeks so are going to take it in for to have some warranty issues resolved. A couple are easy but one for wrinkles in the roof fiberglass has me concerned. Curious about your thoughts on any of these.

1. The furnace does not blow hot air. Tried it on battery and shore power. Fan comes on, ignitor clicks but no heat. Should be no problem getting them to fix this.

2. One of the screws that holds the velcro onto the slide out (where the vinyl tenting attaches) comes out/ has no bit on the structure. Not sure if I should just plan on gluing the velcro down and taking care of it myself.

3. The roof has some wrinkles on the front right. They don't flex and are 'hard'. I've taken a picture and posted it. Do you think it's worth worrying about? Do you think they'll simply call it a 'cosmetic' issue and not warranty-able? For over $12,000 brand new I'd rather not have blemishes in one of the major components of my new camper. Seems a bit invasive to have the top replaced though. I'm kind of worried getting a new top would cause 5 other issues depending on the quality of the repair.

4. The 'lid' for the storage area has developed 'ripples' if I push down on them you can hear it 'sticking' to the under structure and then popping back off. Again, it doesn't affect the function and there are no leaks or anything. Not sure if I'm supposed to just 'accept' this as standard workmanship. I can post a pic if need be.

Here's the roof. What do you guys think? Does it warrant a new top?

[f5moab]

Yes. New top. The quality of these trailers is really bad. Probably the same as other manufacturers. But I personally, would not live with that roof.

[boondoggled]

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. New roof.

Agreeably I can't say I'm impressed with the build quality of these trailers. Lots of self tapping screws, staples, etc. However, it's about what I expected. And it's been fun to have - has certainly made our camping experience more fun especially for longer stays. Don't regret the purchase.

It doesn't seem there would be too much involved with replacing the top from a labor point of view. Raise it up, undo some fasteners, disconnect the electric (maybe cut and splice wiring) remove some of the decorative bits and put the new one on?

If they decide a replacement is in order, I'm guess it will be a good month or two for it to come in. Any wagers on how long that takes? I could start a pool.

[f5moab]

What I've been trying to figure out is what type of coating is applied over top of the fiberglass vacuum bonded radius roof that us used on these trailers. My understanding is that the fiberglass vacuum bonded radius roof is flat, and the pebbling surface is spray on over top. That's my understanding and it is probably not correct.

[Bluepill]

Originally Posted by f5moab

Yes. New top. The quality of these trailers is really bad. Probably the same as other manufacturers. But I personally, would not live with that roof.

The roof issue would certainly effect resale value. I have been going through my new Hardside Pop-up, and have found many issues with quality. Half a dozen points on the frame that are already rusting, no sealing caulk at penetrations through the floor (Hello ants and bugs), and the most important safety-wise is the wiring for the lights and brakes sits directly on top of sharp frame members in 5 places. The eventual short circuit could take out the lights or brakes, and possibly start a fire.

I have covered the wiring with protective tubing, cleaned and repainted the rusty frame points, and caulked the penetrations.


These faults could and should be addressed by the factory. A few more minutes during assembly would be all that it takes.


It is rather disappointing that a vehicle that retails for just a few thousand dollars less than a Civic or Corolla has the build quality of a 1870's stage coach.

[NCBBA11043]

Don't count on a quick turn-around. You might want to stop at the dealer to show/discuss your issues so there is record of it. Then arrange to take it back when you are done for the season, but the warranty is still in effect. I've heard too many stories of peoples trips being ruined/cancelled 'cause the unit is in the shop for repairs. What looks like a 2 week repair can take them 2 months to get around to it - especially warranty work.

[cap2015]

If the ripples are not leaking it is unlikely the roof will be replaced. We went through this with our TT before we bought our class A. Good luck!

[vinmaker]

I too would not be happy with the ripples. I hope you do not get any push back from them. With things like this...who knows.

Vin.

[nineoaks2004]

I would think seriously about taking it in fr warranty work, it looks like DE-lamination to me. The Velcro can just be glued back with contact cement, but if it is under warranty why not let the dealer do it, after all he will get paid for the repairs. I would do it before the warranty runs out.. Happy Camping

[boondoggled]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

The 'ripples' are hard. Can't push them in or anything. I think the pebbled part is a fiberglass layer as I've seen videos where they show the roofs on these things going through big rollers to have the adhesives pressed. My guess is as it was going through the roller, one of the layers got a kink in it and cause the ripples.

Thankfully I've got a 5 year warranty so if there is pushback I can keep an eye on it for a few seasons and if a non-cosmetic issue such as leaking, cracks etc. does develop I'll certainly qualify for a replacement. Frankly, I'm not fond of the idea of some mechanic or mechanics replacing the top on my camper (have a feeling further issues would arise).

I'm taking this weekend to get it nice and clean and will call on Monday to schedule an appointment to take it in. I'll give them the list and go from there. I spoke to them about the heater in between trips and they said they should only need it for a week for that - but we were between trips and didn't expect to need it so I elected to wait.

It is interesting the lack of craftsmanship that's put into these things. Nothing like my Toyota 4Runner that was built in Japan by some anal Japanese factory worker. Not a rattle in that thing after 140k miles.

I've lactated several screws and fasteners on this camper. Also used some black touch up paint on several places on the frame that have flash rust on welds etc.

There's probably something to be said for the extra cost of one of the smaller manufacturers such as Alto or Cricket trailers. They cost more than these pop ups but you get what you pay for eh?

We do like this pop up though. For the money it's been a great adventure rig. It would be so easy and add so little cost for the manufacturer to do a few things right at the factory though - such as vacuuming out the sawdust and chips as they go, using good fasteners, covering electrical wires (as posted above) etc.

oh well.

Will followup as the story unfolds.

[vinmaker]

Pop ups tend to represent the entry level into the RV world. As with all entry level products it is a tug between cost and quality.

[boondoggled]

Yeah, don't take this personally, but I've heard the 'pop ups are entry level' excuse before and honestly I don't really accept it. At least, not within the same brand. Entry level can/should define features but never quality. Some brands are known for quality others are not. FR should decide where they stand on that. The best companies have entry level products that are still of world class quality - just without the rich features of their higher end products. There is of course a huge spectrum there.

If that's truly their excuse for making an 'inferior' product and if the dealership or factory told me that buying their top of the line 'Premier' brand pop up was going to be low quality because I wasn't buy another line of their products that didn't fit my needs I would be appalled. I simply don't want a TT or 5'er, so I got the best pop up they make.

Thy should protect their brand with quality standards across the product line. Otherwise, at what price point can a customer expect to 'get one of the good ones'? A friend of mine recently sold his StarCraft Pop up and got a 23-24k Forest River Freedom Express. Does that price qualify for 'good quality' yet? They make much more expensive TTs. Is it only the 5'er that qualify for decent build quality? He did look at a Cherokee that was about 5 thousand less and indeed it had a wood frame vs. aluminum so the 'feature' of aluminum vs wood defined the quality to some extent and there is overlap there, but I would still expect the wood framed Cherokee to be built to the best standard available to the manufacturer. They should toss out warped sticks and fix mis-applied fasteners as it moves down the production line. I doubt FR (and likely others) have employees that care about that though as I don't think it's in their culture.

In my experience, any time a company starts to allow 'good enough' on any of their products that speaks to the culture of the organization. I wouldn't allow 'good enough' from any of my teams or employees. Once an organization starts to allow such a concept to permeate their standards they start to slip IMHO.

I understand productions systems, assembly, delivery and supply chains fairly well. Granted, I don't have first hand behind the scenes experience with the RV industry but the entire purchase and support experience with campers in general is very last century (disconnects between dealers etc) but apparently it's 'good enough'.

I'm not a long time customer of the RV industry - this is my first new purchase, and I'll take it for what it is, but it's a very strange business where new sales seem to be one step above the used car sales industry. Forest River, Thor Industries et al make no effort to have a consistent customer experience across their dealerships. The independent dealerships lead the experience and I think lack of vision/strategy from FR follows through to the product line because the current customer experience has been 'good enough'. Just my perception based on my experience in person and reading around on the forums about the disparities between good dealerships and bad. FR corporate doesn't set the tone.

That said, I still enjoy my pop up for what it is - a 'cheap' $12,500 box of cabinets, thin wiring and vinyl that was put together as fast and cheap as possible. It's 'good enough'.

We'll see how the warranty experience goes. It will be my first with them. Who knows, perhaps it will be a transformation experience where they go above and beyond. But honestly, I'm only expecting 'good enough'.

And that's what I would expect if it were a >$30k TT or 5'er.

I hope this doesn't come off as combative. But I truly feel if a brand wants to be seen as high quality they will put that effort into every aspect of their organization from sourcing to production to marketing to sales and finally customer service. Within the same brand, cost should define features and they should never skimp on build quality. Especially on the 'entry level' prospect customers.

Sorry for the rant. It's the businessman and manager in me disliking the idea of 'good enough'.

[f5moab]

Originally Posted by vinmaker

As with all entry level products it is a tug between cost and quality.

Don't believe that is true with many products. For many manufacturers it is a feature issue and not a quality issue.
If I purchased an entry level Silverado, I would understand the features are limited and I would know this when purchasing the truck. However, I sure would want the quality to be as good as the high end Silverado. If not, I won't come back and purchase a high end or even another Silverado. Same holds true for Ford/Chrysler, etc. If the quality is not there, people don't return.

But it sure does appear that Forest River cuts the quality for some reason; not sure if it is price, or just bad quality control.

Still trying to figure out who the morons are who decided it is ok to install items with screws into thin veneer pressed wood and expect them to remain. They can't even align the items correctly so that they open as designed.

It's just shoddy manufacturing and if I was ever in the market for a different trailer, I can almost guarantee it would NOT be manufactured by Forest River. And I could never recommend a Forest River product to anyone I know.

[GoGators904]

Makes me a little nervous on our new purchase!!

[vinmaker]

Great points guys. Not much more to say to that.

[boondoggled]

For my part, I feel the whole 'good enough' thing is more of an industry issue than a Forest River specific issue.

I looked at Jayco and Starcraft campers when I was looking to purchase and in my opinion the ones I looked at were of lesser quality (plastic drawer sliders) than the FR ones.

I also liked the FR features and aesthetics. The value for the dollar seemed better on the FR campers I looked at. Not a big fan of the dealership.

That said, if I could justify the cost, and if my wife would let us go smaller, I'd take a hard look at an Alto or Cricket if if could. Maybe when we're retired and it's just the two of us.

Or an Airstream...

And we really do like going on adventures in the camper even it if is 'good enough' in some ways. It's been a lot of fun and we expect to make some great memories for many years.

Got it all washed and waxed yesterday, pulled everything out and got the interior spotless. Sitting with the cover on it now. Appointment to drop it off next Tuesday. I have a theory that clean cars, trucks and campers get taken better care of by mechanics than dirty ones.

[exploreco]

I agree with others too, the roof needs to be replaced, but you have already got to that decision. I agree though too, it probably won't be a quick fix if it has been anything like the bigger warranty issues I have dealt with. After our first season of camping, we had a lot of rain while camping and the dinette leaked in both corners, and also on the sink bump out. Took it in to show them, which is an hour and half away. They had to take pictures and send them off to FR for approval. That took awhile. Once that was done they could remove the canvas and send them to FR to be repaired or replaced. It was up to FR what they would do. FR replaced the sink bump out and repaired the dinette. The dealer basically told me it was going to take weeks to get done so bring it back after the camping season was over. So, we brought it in during December and got it back in February I think. Had a few other small items taken care of while we where in there.

Agree, quality isn't what it used to be for sure. Have had several screws come loose or come out. My show lines have leaked, and other various small issues that I have just addressed myself.

Good luck with getting a new roof. They should take care of it. It isn't right for sure.

[boondoggled]

Took the camper in today and the lady who was working the service writing desk was very friendly. I gave her a printed out list of the issues and when we got to the roof (I had a picture on the print out) she immediately said "that's gonna need a new roof".

She said it's pretty common to see this issue and it's caused by a problem with the heat as they roll the roof laminates through the press roller. She said if I don't fix it the ripple areas will dry out and get cracks.

Here's how she said it's going to go:

They'll take a bunch of pictures and send them to Forest River, then order a new roof and it will take 6-8 weeks to arrive, and it will be damaged, so they'll order another one and it will take 6-8 weeks and it might be damaged too. Hopefully not, but usually by the third one they get a good one. Apparently it's the shopping of them that is the problem.

There was a man outside with a high wall that just had his replaced - it was a customer pay job. It had a hole in it so they installed a vent and gave him a steep discount.

Otherwise she said the new lid should arrive and be installed within 10 days, the furnace will get fixed and they'll take a look at the screw and see what they can do. She was very helpful about the whole thing.

I also asked her to order another support strut for the storage area as I feel like having only one strut causes the lid to 'twist' and this may be what caused the adhesive separation. I'll install that myself.

Replacing the roof is about a 6-8 hour job. I hope they don't screw something else up while they're doing it. But she said they do them a lot and it's no big deal to the techs.

So, I should get it back in a couple of weeks.

Our next trip isn't until October. Driving from Denver to San Diego. So no hurry. Will probably schedule the roof replacement for Nov, Dec. Jan.....