Battery or not?

Leetch94 · 05-13-2016, 03:33 PM

Sorry if this is repetitive, but I'm confused. Have a 2006 Rockwood Freedom 1640ltd. I've been give a range of answers.

Can I run anything on this pup with a battery? The seller told me the pup doesn't have, and never did have a battery, and that nothing runs on battery.

Another Forum member told me "of course it has a battery. That's the whole point of pups, going off grid.

Somebody else went down the middle and said the you can use a battery, but for what it provides, it's not worth it.

I don't know. I don't see a battery anywhere. If I should get one, I know a deep cycle is the way to go, but what size? Where to put it? How much power will it provide? Any information referrals I can search?

Thanks

**Flybob** · 05-13-2016, 03:48 PM

OK. Do you have a water pump? What does the label say?
Do you have an absorption fridge? The control board operates on 12V ( might use propane for cooling).
Do you have a suburban furnace? The control board and fan run on 12V. That can be provided by the converter or a battery, but it has to have 12V.
Look at the lights. What is the voltage on the bulbs? They are most likely 12V. Again they can be powered by the converter or a battery. I have never seen a newer (> 1995) unit that does not run the basics on 12V. If that is the case, you can add a battery and run the basic items.

fonzie · 05-13-2016, 04:30 PM

according to FR literature it should have one....

http://www.coltonrv.com/wp-content/u...-Brochure1.pdf

**bikendan** · 05-13-2016, 05:41 PM

The seller lied to you.
The fridge, lights, furnace fan and water pump all run on 12v battery power.
The fridge can also run on propane or 120v AC shore power.
The pup has a converter, which charges the battery when plugged into shore power or a generator.

Popups are designed for being able to run on just 12v battery power.

I know because I've owned two popups.

Looking at the floorplan, both the fridge and furnace were options.
And it may have a hand pump water faucet, therefore no electric water pump.
So if yours has none of these, the lights still need 12v battery power.
The previous owner may have always kept it plugged into shore power and never installed a battery.

indybp57 · 05-13-2016, 07:44 PM

We owned an 04 Starcraft pup that had no provisions for a battery. Fridge was 120ac/or 12vdc no propane option. Hand operated water pump. All the 12v stuff ran off the converter. The only battery was a gel cell for the break away braking system.

**bikendan** · 05-13-2016, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybp57

We owned an 04 Starcraft pup that had no provisions for a battery. Fridge was 120ac/or 12vdc no propane option. Hand operated water pump. All the 12v stuff ran off the converter. The only battery was a gel cell for the break away braking system.

If the fridge could run on 12vdc, how could it do that, if there was no battery?

rockfordroo · 05-13-2016, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikendan

If the fridge could run on 12vdc, how could it do that, if there was no battery?

My 1988 Coleman pup had no battery. Fridge ran on 12VDC from the converter if you had 120VAC available, OR it ran on propane, OR it could run on 12VDC from the tow vehicle going down the road. All my 12VDC stuff ran off the converter. If I had no 120VAC, I had no 12VDC.

indybp57 · 05-14-2016, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

My 1988 Coleman pup had no battery. Fridge ran on 12VDC from the converter if you had 120VAC available, OR it ran on propane, OR it could run on 12VDC from the tow vehicle going down the road. All my 12VDC stuff ran off the converter. If I had no 120VAC, I had no 12VDC.

X2. Now that I think about mine had the propane option but I could never get the pilot lit. It also had its own 120ac cord which plugged into an outlet behind the outside access panel. But back to the original issue the pup did not have any provision for a battery except for the runaway brake.

pgandw · 05-14-2016, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leetch94

Sorry if this is repetitive, but I'm confused. Have a 2006 Rockwood Freedom 1640ltd. I've been give a range of answers.

Based on my analysis of the 2006 Rockwood Pop-up brochure, the battery box and associated wiring were an option on the 1640LTD. It came with a 12A converter instead of the 25A in the larger/more expensive models.

Quote:

Can I run anything on this pup with a battery? The seller told me the pup doesn't have, and never did have a battery, and that nothing runs on battery.

Another Forum member told me "of course it has a battery. That's the whole point of pups, going off grid.

Somebody else went down the middle and said the you can use a battery, but for what it provides, it's not worth it.

I don't know. I don't see a battery anywhere. If I should get one, I know a deep cycle is the way to go, but what size? Where to put it? How much power will it provide? Any information referrals I can search?

Thanks

Assuming the seller was correct, putting in a battery and the wiring is doable, but not a 2hr job. Since the battery option was apparently never ordered, I have to ask what other options you have installed. Factory options that would make use of a battery are:

1.9 cu ft 3 way fridge (factory option, ice box was standard)
heater (again, a factory option)
electric brakes (again, a factory option)
water tank, electric pump, sink (I don't know if these were standard or optional. You could have a hand pump, sink, and tank. My first PUP had that arrangement.)
the heated mattress pad option requires 120V AC, and will not run off the battery.

If you don't have any of those of those options installed, the ONLY thing a battery is going to do is run the interior lights while unplugged.

Starting at the front, my guess is that you do not have the big 7 pin electrical connection to the tow vehicle that most all RVs with batteries use. So you would want to convert to the 7 pin connection on both camper and tow vehicle to give battery charging while towing.

The 7 pin connector also provides for electric trailer brakes. If you don't have installed electric trailer brakes, as you weight down the trailer, you will want them - especially if you are towing with a 6 cylinder vehicle (mid or small SUV, minivan, small truck).

The battery box goes on the tongue, either in front of or behind the propane tank(s). Normally, 2 rails are tacked on across the tongue a-frame, and the battery box(es) mounted to that. It does add to the tongue weight of your camper.

There is going to be a fair amount of wiring to do - you can do it yourself if you are comfortable with that kind of thing.

The heater fan is the big draw of power, especially if you convert your lights to LEDs. If you don't have or run the heater, a size 24 deep cycle can last you a week. If you run the heater for 4 hours/night, the battery will only last 2 nights. On our A-frame, we installed 2 6V golf cart batteries to carry the heater for 4+ nights without recharging.

If you are going to be dry camping or boon-docking on a regular basis, and using the battery, you are probably going to want to upgrade your converter (or use an external charger when power is available).

Let us know the specifics of your PUP - what electric-using options or mods it has or doesn't have.

Hope this helps
Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

**bikendan** · 05-14-2016, 05:55 PM

Well, I owned two popups, a '72 Starcraft and a '93 Viking, both with basic equipment.
No water pump, no a/c, no electric brakes and no stereo but both had batteries.
Never knew that you could get one with no 12v battery setup.

I guess I assumed that it was kinda mandatory, since it has 12v powered items.

Maybe since I lived in California, where virtually none of the state parks have any electric hookups, dealers didn't carry these types of popups.

Leetch94 · 05-14-2016, 06:00 PM

Hi Fred, thanks for the thoughtful answer.

Ok, I set the pup up for the first time today, and what did I find? A tiny little battery! Sits in a box attached to the tongue. It's about 3x5 inches, says its 12 volt. That's all I can read on it.

I have a seven pin connector, and had my hitch guy put a seven on my TV.

I have electric brakes, heater, water pump and fridge.

I flipped the 15 amp breaker, and I had power to outlets. (Extension cord from the house, adapter, 30 from the pup.)

Plugged in a lamp and got light. But also got constant intermittent buzzing from the converter. Not the hum, that was there all the time, not intermittent. Sounded like some kind of warning alarm?

I did get ceiling lights, so I guess I'm also getting 12 V power. Didn't try the water pump or the fridge. Not that daring yet.

D-mo · 05-14-2016, 07:14 PM

Update all your fellow replys....leach94.....hmmm. that name is a little odd.....like seriously....

Leetch94 · 05-14-2016, 07:17 PM

I have no idea what you mean.

Update what?

And it's leetch94.

pgandw · 05-14-2016, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leetch94

Hi Fred, thanks for the thoughtful answer.

Ok, I set the pup up for the first time today, and what did I find? A tiny little battery! Sits in a box attached to the tongue. It's about 3x5 inches, says its 12 volt. That's all I can read on it.

That little battery is to power your brakes should you lose the PUP off the hitch. There should be an emergency break-away cable - usually a thin piece of plastic-coated wire attached to a plastic plug. When that plug is pulled out in an emergency by the cable, that little battery activates the brakes on your PUP.

Quote:

I have a seven pin connector, and had my hitch guy put a seven on my TV.

I have electric brakes, heater, water pump and fridge.

Sounds like you got every major option except the battery and battery wiring. You will want the battery if you ever want to camp without a power hook-up. Everything you have will run off the battery or propane.

How much dry camping or boondocking you do, and for how long, will determine how much battery you need. As I said before, the heater and your lights are the big power hogs. Replace the interior light bulbs with LEDs, and the lights go to not very significant (from 2.2 amps per light to 0.75 amps per light or less). The heater fan typically draws about 4 amps. The little PUP fridges use nothing when on propane. And the water pump doesn't run for long enough to matter.

A single size 24 deep cycle battery (about the smallest common size) weighs about 60lbs (adds to tongue weight), and will let you run your heater for about 8 hours (run time) along with other small loads before your battery drops to 50% charge. If you run a deep cycle battery below 50%, its remaining life drops significantly.

Since we live in Colorado, and wanted to camp anytime there's not snow on the ground and night temps are high 20s or above, we need the heater for 4 nights or less on a long weekend. We needed 2 batteries to do it. I switched to two 6V golf cart batteries after I had a failure of one 12V. The golf cart batteries were cheaper, fit in the same box, and gave more capacity.

Quote:

Plugged in a lamp and got light. But also got constant intermittent buzzing from the converter. Not the hum, that was there all the time, not intermittent. Sounded like some kind of warning alarm?

I did get ceiling lights, so I guess I'm also getting 12 V power. Didn't try the water pump or the fridge. Not that daring yet.

Your converter is working, but may be on its way to failing or just plain noisy. The converter is supplying the 12V when you plug the PUP in. I would seriously consider replacing the converter in the near future with a decent 3 mode converter, especially if you are going to install and use your battery.

The fridge should be normally operated on 120V AC when you are plugged in, and on propane when you are not. The only time I put the fridge on 12V is when I'm towing. The minivan supplies the 12V for the fridge while I'm towing. PUP fridges cool much better on propane or 120V, and usually cool best on propane.

Hope this helps some more...
Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

First photo is a battery cutoff switch I installed to save disconnecting battery while camper is not in use. I made wood cover for battery box because plastic one blew off and away while towing. Note emergency disconnect on bottom of frame (left bottom corner). Make sure you have one wired in.
Second photo shows the two golf cart batteries inside the box.
Third photo shows outside vent covers for fridge removed. Green switch in upper compartment turns fridge on AC. Dial selects how cold. Red switch puts fridge on 12V DC (there is no coldness control on DC). Bottom section has propane controls. Propane on is knob with red dot (push while lighting). Red push button is igniter. Cold control is left knob.
Final photo shows tongue jack, propane tanks, and battery box. Not much extra room. Display is remote readout for wireless thermometer I stick in fridge. Fridge is NOT thermostatic controlled.

**bikendan** · 05-14-2016, 10:34 PM

So these popups that have no provision for a 12v battery, can only be used where hookups are available?

I just don't get why a popup like this exists.
You've got electric brakes, fridge, furnace, lights, fan that all run on 12v power but we're not going to have any connections for a 12v battery!

CRAZY!:what:

pgandw · 05-15-2016, 06:13 AM

If you study the option list carefully, the brakes, fridge, and furnace were all options - as was the battery and wiring. A fan was not part of the OP listed equipment. Only the lights (it's probably only one overhead light) needed 12V on the standard model. You needed hook-ups for any 12V stuff.

The water pump may or may not have been standard - my first PUP had a hand pump at the sink, as have my sailboats. I always replaced the hand pumps with a foot pump, which I actually prefer to a 12V pump. Unfortunately, the outside shower and hot water heater (nice conveniences) on my later PUPs and A-frame made a foot pump impractical.

The particular model PUP that OP bought (and this is not an insult to the OP) was the very lowest-price PUP that Rockwood produced in 2006. So normally standard features on higher-end models were options on the LTD.

When we group camped at Lake Tahoe every summer, I had a little bit of envy for the families with the base 8ft PUPs. So simple, so easy to maintain, and so light to tow. We had a 12ft box Coleman Westlake that had an inside shower/cassette potty that we paid for but never used, and an outside shower we paid for but never used. We had to use coolers stored in the bear boxes instead of the fridge because of the bears, and we mostly used flashlights to preserve the battery for the 10-12 days. And when the battery was finally dead, we couldn't pump water from our water tank - hand pumps and foot pumps work with a dead battery. Except for the extra room to sleep more kids, our bigger PUP gained us nothing and cost us more.

I did remember our camping style when we bought the A-frame - except now all the fancy stuff is standard. The camper is a very nice bed for the night (mattress toppers needed), and the dinette works to wait out a rain storm. The rest of the time is spent outside - cooking, eating, clean-up, lounging, sight-seeing, hiking, etc. I finally found a use for the outside shower and hot water heater - supplies easy-to-access hot water for dish washing at the picnic table. The stereo, inside stove, and mattress warmers are never used. We do use the air conditioning and microwave if we have hook-ups.

Different camping styles for different folks.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame (base model)
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

youroo · 05-15-2016, 06:33 AM

Maybe it is a "Nostalgia Model" with "Gas lights and Ice Box"?

Youroo!!

rockfordroo · 05-15-2016, 12:42 PM

My Coleman came with fridge, furnace, no brakes, no battery. Everything on the pup ran off 12VDC from the converter. There were 2 outlets with 120VAC for plugging stuff in.

Also be careful with pgandaw"s statement: "The fridge should be normally operated on 120V AC when you are plugged in, and on propane when you are not." Not necessarily true. The fridge on my Coleman actually only ran on 12VDC or propane. It ran on 120VAC only via the 12VDC from the converter. So it was really only a "2-way" fridge (12VDC/propane). There ARE apparently "3-way" fridges that actually use 120VAC/12VDC/propane. Make sure you fully understand which kind you've got and what it really can use to power it.

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