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Old 06-28-2016, 03:37 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
FR offers a 2nd year factory warranty for their popups, for only $100.
Most dealers don't tell customers about it so they can sell 3rd party warranties that they get a commission on.
Yes. But it's not the bumper to bumper. Just cabinet and stuff might want to read it. I had screws strip out on the bathroom wall at 25 months and they wouldn't fix it under warrent. Thank god I can fix minor thing. But it's still worth the 100 for that extra yr. I did use it a couple times.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:26 PM   #122
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I would love to hear more about gray water "ethics." The insinuation in this post is that gray water is some sort of health hazard or contamination. I question this, because all manner of tent campers do their dishes in or near the campsite, and their gray water goes straight to the ground with no objections from state and national park rangers.

In a formal campground, I'll drag a 5 gallon bucket to the pit/vault toilet (typical in Colorado) or in private campgrounds, take it to the dump station or toilet. But when boondocking in drought-stricken national forest, that gray water is precious--as are any nutrients in the water. The soaps (dish soap and hand soap - or shower soaps and shampoos) are also beneficial. The surfactants in the soaps can be beneficial, and at the highly diluted concentrations in gray water, their impact is more or less negligible anyway. Dish soap useful in garden, also | Home and Garden | tucson.com

BUT, I'm curious. What is the case against dumping gray water when boondocking--besides someone misinterpreting your act as dumping black water?
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:41 AM   #123
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Grey drain outlet setup

There's more in grey water than just water. There's soap, food particles, assorted cleaners and whatever else that goes down the drain. It can kill grass, attract bugs and leave an unsightly, smelly mess on the ground. Even if it isn't harmful from an environmental standpoint, show some courtesy for the next people who use the area. Would you want to camp in the last people's sink and shower residue?
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:15 PM   #124
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Hazards of Gray Water??

I wouldn't leave gray water on the site. As I mentioned, I have a 5 gallon bucket (as do most who have PUP campers with no holding tanks). I fill the bucket and tote it away from the site and pour it out to water the trees. I explained my practice of collecting and dumping in the toilet in close-quarters camping (e.g. private commercial campgrounds and state/national park campgrounds).

I appreciate your response, but as former executive director of a nonprofit focused on pesticides and toxic chemicals, I know what is in "typical" gray water...not just mine. They use Dawn dishwashing detergent to save wildlife contaminated with crude oil from spills. You put shampoo and hand soap on your body...your baby even. Nobody should be using antibacterial soaps, and I don't, but even those who do use so little that the concentrations are negligible. The food waste in tent-campers' dishwater seldom makes it off-site, but gray water from a PUP or holding tank can be toted some distance from the site. And given the limitations of PUP drain plumbing, the particulates in gray water are minimal (at least if you're smart). Finally, I provided evidence (and there are tons more sources) that surfactants (soaps and mild detergents) are actually good for plants and soils. The way soap works is that it is a "wetting agent" further allowing water to penetrate and move through soils.

timfromma: I may sound argumentative, but I didn't hear anything in your response that addressed why gray water might be toxic in some way. Yes, if dumped on site, 25 to 30 gallons of gray water (3 or 4 days worth) might leave a smelly, oily (cooking oils), mess. But distributed through the nearby forest...at least in dry climates like Colorado...that precious water (and the nutrients in the water) are far more beneficial than any imagined harm. The state of Colorado actually has regulations enabling property owners to use gray water for on-site irrigation, and gray water is used for irrigation in many forms of agriculture and on golf courses. https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/wq-graywater It's also fair to point out that many of the particulates in gray water - say coffee grounds - are beneficial for the soil: https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/com...-gardening.htm

Hell, people with dogs have dog pee all over the area where they camp, and only some (including me) clean up their dogs' poop. The environmental hazard from 2 black labs FAR exceeds the hazard from gray water. And what about tent campers who, at best, bury their solid human waste behind a tree, pee essentially anywhere, wash dishes on site, etc.?

I understand that "optically" gray water seems nasty, but a septic system puts black and gray water in the ground in a concentrated location, and people using septics are often on wells located about 100 feet from the leach field. By the time the effluent reaches the water table, the soils have purified it. How is gray water different?

So, I'm sincerely asking for some hard evidence that REASONABLY HANDLED gray water is an environmental hazard as opposed to a "yuk" factor in one's mind only. Please get past the idea that gray water is dumping straight onto the site and address the idea of using it to water the landscape 50 feet from the site when boondocking and the nearest camper is not even in view?

P.S. In many years of camping and dumping PUP gray water in the nearby woods, the food waste residue has never attracted a bear or other wildlife. In fact, I can walk my dogs right past a fresh dump of gray water, and they ignore it. Meanwhile, they will hone in on the scent of two-week old dog pee from 20 to 30 feet downwind. Let's be clear. Food draws them in like flies to honey, but they ignore the scent of any particulates in gray water. So the odor is not an attractant, nor is it offensive if not concentrated in one spot.

Thanks for your patience. I think this is a legitimate question worth exploring. Last weekend, we were in the Pike National Forest, near the Lost Creek Wilderness. This is serious bear country, and we take all the precautions. I dumped 4 x 5 gallon buckets of gray water in four separate locations - sharing it with four stands of trees. No bears...and no bears EVER attracted to gray water dump spots in more than 7 years of boondocking in the mountains of Colorado.
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2014 Forest River/Rockwood HW 277
2006 Ram 1500 4WD Crew with Firestone Airbags
Typical season is about 30 nights camping, usually nearby boondocking in the National Forests or at Lake Wellington
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:56 PM   #125
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I guess it's more about keeping the location clean and presentable for the people who come after you. If you can dump your grey water in accordance with park policy and keep the site pristine, I see no problem with it.
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