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Old 05-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #1
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Weight questions - Rockwood Freedom 2280/Flagstaff MAC 228

Can anyone who owns a late model Rockwood Freedom 2280/Flagstaff MAC 228 (with shower cassette, H/W, fridge, A/C, heater) give me approximate numbers for Gross Weight (no cargo) and Tongue Load? My wife and I are thinking of buying a new one, but I'm trying to determine if my TV is up to the challenge of pulling this safely. I know the Dry Weight and Dry Tongue Load, but need to know what these become once a full propane tank and battery are added in.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #2
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Just yesterday, I went to a CAT scale. Now, I did leave the trailer hooked up; but the trailer weighed 2140#

Full propane but empty FW tank. So if I add the water to the tank with approx 5 gallons of water in the WH and 5 gallons in the cassette

30(gallons of water) * 8.4= 252

Close to 2400lbs. I have my cast iron and all other amenities packed in the camper.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #3
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Thanks for the info Zambolie! You wouldn't happen to know the tongue weight for your PUP in that configuration would you? My issue is that my TV only has a 350# max and I know that the dry weight for a 2280 is 331#. I'm worried that I'll be over that before I ever get it off the dealer's lot.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:23 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info Zambolie! You wouldn't happen to know the tongue weight for your PUP in that configuration would you? My issue is that my TV only has a 350# max and I know that the dry weight for a 2280 is 331#. I'm worried that I'll be over that before I ever get it off the dealer's lot.
IMO, pretty likely. The dry weight is before "options" are added - (tongue in cheek towards the mfr's advertising not you) - you know, little things like propane and a battery.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #5
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Would using a WDH, which would lessen the vertical load on the hitch, compensate if the tongue load is above the max?
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:08 PM   #6
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Unfortunately I don't know enough about WDH hitches. But, what is your tow vehicle? It possibly can't take a WDH. Check your owner's manual.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #7
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WDH redistributes the weight load but does nothing to the total weight that actually sits in the ball.

Think about a lever lifting at the receiver. This pushes up on the rear of the receiver providing torque to redistribute the weight lifting the rear of the TV and that weight shifts to the front. The lever action also adds weight to the trailer axle(s) as the lifting is from the spring bar tension pulling down on the trailer frame.

This gives more stability by getting more if the weight in the from axle and trailer axle(s) while reducing sag and weight that was on the rear axle.

The actual weight at the ball and hitch is still however the same.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #8
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Balancing tongue weight

Just bought a 228 with shower myself. I am also trying to keep tongue weight down. Dealer put the battery on the inside under the gaucho bed (with sealed cover and vent to outside) to counter the weight of LP tank. Just something to consider for yours.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:45 PM   #9
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WDH redistributes the weight load but does nothing to the total weight that actually sits in the ball.

Think about a lever lifting at the receiver. This pushes up on the rear of the receiver providing torque to redistribute the weight lifting the rear of the TV and that weight shifts to the front. The lever action also adds weight to the trailer axle(s) as the lifting is from the spring bar tension pulling down on the trailer frame.

This gives more stability by getting more if the weight in the from axle and trailer axle(s) while reducing sag and weight that was on the rear axle.

The actual weight at the ball and hitch is still however the same.
Don't think that's quite right, but will defer to the experts. The wdh increases the downward force on the ball, but lifts the whole hitch head and thus decreases the actual load on the rear axle of the tv and increases it on the trailer & tv front axle.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:57 PM   #10
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Just bought a 228 with shower myself. I am also trying to keep tongue weight down. Dealer put the battery on the inside under the gaucho bed (with sealed cover and vent to outside) to counter the weight of LP tank. Just something to consider for yours.
Interesting. Keep in mind, for proper sway control - you want 10%-15% of the weight to be on the tongue. Too little and it can induce sway.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 PM   #11
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Don't think that's quite right, but will defer to the experts. The wdh increases the downward force on the ball, but lifts the whole hitch head and thus decreases the actual load on the rear axle of the tv and increases it on the trailer & tv front axle.
I'm no expert either, but spent a fair amount of time on this concept before I felt safe with my setup.

WDH makes no change to weight on the ball, the spring bars are attached below the ball on the WDH. It creates a static lift at the head (not ball) and implements a lifting fulcrum at the receiver. It lifts up on the rear of the receiver, and pushes down forward part of the receiver. This action of static pressure creates the redistribution of weight at the tow vehicle.

It causes weight on the rear axle to be redistributed to the front axle. At the same time the static pressure caused by the spring bar adds some weight to the trailer axle.

The weight at the ball stays the same, which isn't a problem. The ball is likely rated way above the trailer tongue weight. The crucial part is the ability of the hitch receiver tube to tolerate the torsion of the static pressure created by the spring bar. Normally with the AFrame trailers and light weight WDH systems we are talking about small amounts of weight and torsion the dynamics aren't a problem. I've not weighed my setup, only measured rear drop and front lift before and after WDH. My Jeep settles well, and I've not seen any undue stress at the receiver.

I'm comfortable and the TV and trailer feels good when towing. Steering and braking are better after WDH but my case is not the same as someone else's.

The key to the ball weight not changing is where the bars are connected to the hitch assembly, which is below the ball, part of the hitch head assembly which transfers the torsion to the shank and into the receiver tube. The rest of the force transfers to the trailer frame and ultimately to the trailer axle.
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #12
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I wanted to post a correction to my earlier thread after Old Coot - I misread Old Coot's reply.

Language and understanding of the dynamics of where weight is and how it's transferred is important.

Weight does increase at the ball, but not the tongue (Tongue weight stays the same with our without WDH with the exception of the added weight of the hitch head and heavier shank that the head mounts to). The description Old Coot gives is correct, and the downward force is counteracted by lifting forces creating that 'torsion' that I talked about earlier (lifting on the rear of the receiver tube while the tongue weight rests toward the front of the receiver tube).

You can read this thread if you want a good solid description of how it all works, including how to do the calculations of weight movement: RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Weight Distribution (WD) Hitch --- How it Works

It's a rather long thread at 18 pages, but the first post contains a very good summary of the entire thread that can be digested in a few minutes versus the reading all the pages.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:32 PM   #13
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Can anyone who owns a late model Rockwood Freedom 2280/Flagstaff MAC 228 (with shower cassette, H/W, fridge, A/C, heater) give me approximate numbers for Gross Weight (no cargo) and Tongue Load? My wife and I are thinking of buying a new one, but I'm trying to determine if my TV is up to the challenge of pulling this safely. I know the Dry Weight and Dry Tongue Load, but need to know what these become once a full propane tank and battery are added in.
FYI my 228 with shower's tongue weight with cold and hot water fully loaded, LP and battery on the front is 420 lbs. Putting the battery in the back lowers that to 365 lbs.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:21 PM   #14
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On your 2280, would you happen to have a pic of your battery wiring hookup?
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:25 PM   #15
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I have a Mac 228 without toilet, shower and hot water heater. I never haul with water in my fresh water tank. Depending on how I load mine, my tongue weight has gone from 360 to 430 pounds. That's with one 20 pound propane bottle and a group 24 battery.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:55 PM   #16
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Dealer didn't end up doing the sealed interior battery because tongue weight was sufficient without it. I can tell you the revised plan was to put it under the rear-most dinette bench because it wouldn't fit under gaucho. In that bench there is part that is screwed down (instead of removable for storage access). They unscrewed that and verified it would fit with a vent to the outside. I choose to not worry about having a battery under my kids while they're eating (although I'm sure it would have been fine) because I didn't need the tongue weight reduction after all.
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