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03-08-2015, 10:45 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 703
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Generator Grounding
So I picked my rig up at the dealer this week and wanted to check some electrical stuff out so I fired up my Yamaha 2000 Watter and checked the outlets with a light tester and each showed an open ground. Hooked up to shore power and all was well. This makes sense to me at the generator is not grounded. After doing some research the going thought is we would have to pound a six foot rod into the earth to ground the unit, not very doable. We have a lot of sensitive, expensive computers, phones, tables and etc we use in the rig. There would not be a transfer switch involved. Just put the gen on the ground and fire her up.
So my question is:
Given that I will not pound that rod into the ground is it possible that damage might occur because of that? Much of the computer chargers are 3 pronged. Now there is the right thing to do and the thing MOST of us do. I imagine this might turn into some type of debate and that is ok. Below is what OSHA states but that is most probably a safety issue and not something that address's a usage issue.
"...frame of a portable generator need not be grounded (connected to earth) and that the frame may serve as the ground (in place of the earth):
• The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator and/or cord- and plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, and
• The noncurrent-carrying metal parts of equipment (such as the fuel tank, the inter- nal combustion engine, and the generator’s housing) are bonded to the generator frame, and the equipment grounding con- ductor terminals (of the power receptacles that are a part of [mounted on] the genera- tor) are bonded to the generator frame,
Thus, rather than connect to a grounding electrode system, such as a driven ground rod, the generator’s frame replaces the grounding electrode...."
Opinions and knowledge are welcome.
__________________
2013 Ford F-350 SD Diesel, 4X4, Crew Cab, Lariat
Sabre 2014 32RCTS, Pullrite Superglide 2900 18K
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03-08-2015, 10:55 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
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__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
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03-08-2015, 11:04 AM
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#3
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzie
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What he said
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03-08-2015, 11:41 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 735
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X2 what fonzie said.
Ignore TURBS!
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03-08-2015, 12:59 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 703
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Thanks Fonzie
Purchased, assembled and tested. Nothing smoked and every outlet now has the correct grounding. Feel much better as we will be using the Gen the next two days and on Friday my wife took delivery of a new $1000.00 computer.
Thanks Fonzie and all the rest of you guys.
This forum is great......
__________________
2013 Ford F-350 SD Diesel, 4X4, Crew Cab, Lariat
Sabre 2014 32RCTS, Pullrite Superglide 2900 18K
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03-08-2015, 01:01 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidceder
Purchased, assembled and tested. Nothing smoked and every outlet now has the correct grounding. Feel much better as we will be using the Gen the next two days and on Friday my wife took delivery of a new $1000.00 computer.
Thanks Fonzie and all the rest of you guys.
This forum is great......
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__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
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03-08-2015, 01:16 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,833
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If you use a Progressive Surge Protector the warranty is void if used on a Yamaha Generator due to non sinusoidal output.
Disclaimers
__________________
B and B
2022 Venture RV SportTrek STT 302 VRB Travel Trailer
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Louisville 5th Wheel
2015 Heartland Bighorn 5th Wheel
2013 FR Rockwood 8289WS 5th Wheel
2012 FR Rockwood 2703 SS Travel Trailer
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03-08-2015, 01:34 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 703
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I have a Progressive Industries 50 that I use only when connected to shore power. When I use my Gen I figure the power is clean and correct. Does my little Yamaha 2000 differ from the Honda 2000 on thins sinusoidal output or are all Gens the same?
I am not very good at Elec stuff.
__________________
2013 Ford F-350 SD Diesel, 4X4, Crew Cab, Lariat
Sabre 2014 32RCTS, Pullrite Superglide 2900 18K
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03-12-2015, 07:49 AM
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#9
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RV Electricity Expert
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidceder
So I picked my rig up at the dealer this week and
Thus, rather than connect to a grounding electrode system, such as a driven ground rod, the generator’s frame replaces the grounding electrode...."
Opinions and knowledge are welcome.
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I'm Mike Sokol, author of the No~Shock~Zone articles linked to on this thread. I designed and wrote about the G-N Bonding Plug for floating neutral generators exactly for this situation. Thanks for posting the link here.
I think a lot of the confusion over this grounding thing is that the word "ground" is used for a lot of things that are definitely NOT earth ground. In electrical distribution systems it really means to be "bonded" to the Ground-Neutral connection point which may or may not be "earthed" to the dirt beneath your feet. And that's exactly what 3-light outlet testers are checking for. So these 3-light testers have NO idea if your RVs are actually connected (bonded) to earth. They only test for a Ground-Neutral connection, which a floating generator DOES NOT provide. And that's why my G-N bonding plug works to create a proper power distro. That's all proper and to code since a portable power system doesn't need a connection to "earth ground" at all, as long as its G-N connections are bonded together. The function of the G-N connection is to provide a fault path that will allow a circuit breaker to trip in case of a short circuit in your wiring.
So what does a ground rod do for your house? Well, for any dispersed distribution system (your home) there's still a G-N bond, but also a ground rod connected to the earth. But again, the ground rod really doesn't have anything to do with clearing a ground fault. It's real job is to act as a shunting point for lightning strikes. So when lighting hits your area, instead of the millions of volts dancing around inside your house, it's shorted to the earth (ground) via the ground rod. Because your RV and generator is a small (non distributed system) there's no need for it to be connected (bonded) to a ground rod. As noted, your generator's frame the RV's chassis form a local "ground plane" which should be bonded to the generator's neutral to operate electronic monitoring devices correctly.
I've been pitching the idea of teaching this generator bonding trick as part of an RV electrical safety seminar for Forest River, but haven't gotten any traction with the idea. Please pass this onto anyone at FR who might be able to make that happen.
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
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03-16-2015, 08:03 AM
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#10
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geotex1
X2 what fonzie said.
Ignore TURBS!
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I'm watching you!
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