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Old 03-13-2014, 07:55 AM   #1
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Michelin XPS RIBS?

Are any of you running these tires on your sabre? I want to get rid of the Akuret tires on mine. I was wondering if I can still use my X-chocks with the Michelin's. If I can't I am going with the Maxxis trailer tires. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:06 AM   #2
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I have clearance issues with the LT tires. I will have to run the maxxis m8008's.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:09 AM   #3
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There is lots of debate to using LT tires vs. ST tires for trailer applications. Those for LTs say that they're a better tires. Those for STs say that LTs can't handle the sidewall stress of backing a camper into spots. For what it's worth- there are some heavier trailers in the higher dollar range that come with LTs stock.

I have no idea about your actual question of being able to use X-chocks with the Michelins. What is your concern? Spacing? Or causing damage?

I only have a few thousand miles on my Maxxis tires, but I don't have anything bad to say about them.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:11 AM   #4
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Funny, a full 24 hours later and we both post within minutes.

I couldn't find my exact tire size in a LT tire:
XPS Rib | Michelin Tires

I was looking for 235/80/16E. It looks like most LT tires come with an 85 for that middle number. Not sure how much that makes a difference, though.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:52 AM   #5
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I looked for a couple of hours yesterday. The 235 85 16 is a inch taller and the 245 75 16 is about a inch wider. Both of them would be extremely close to the slide out mechanism (not sure I spelled that right). So I decided for now just to go with the maxxis. It seems to have a good following.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:04 PM   #6
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Maxxis are arguably the best ST on the market. Replaced my final two Akuret bombs with them.
The whole argument about sidewalls on LT’s is nonsense, as long as you have the proper rated and capacity LT. Not all LT’s are created equal, however to get to a higher rating a capacity, you will likely need to go to a 17.5, just like on the higher end fifth wheels. Some special interest groups, like the factory, want you to drink the sidewall cool aid, as it is cheaper to put on 16 inch Chinese made tires and wheels that are often very close to their rating and capacity. If you need further validation, look at what commercial trailers are running.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Not all LTs are created equal, however to get to a higher rating a capacity, you will likely need to go to a 17.5, just like on the higher end fifth wheels.
That's a significant issue for me. My 16s in Maxxis ST have a load capacity of 3,420 lbs. but the equivalent XPS Rib is 3,042 lbs.

That's significant for me in 2 ways:

1) My trailer axles are carrying 12,280 lbs. Ballpark, that is 3,070 pounds per tire if I assume that both sides of the axle are carrying the same weights. I know both of my axles are carrying essentially the same load (+/- 40 pounds) from a prior weighing.

2) My trailer's axles are very close to each other. Between my tires is only 1" to 1 1/2". I'd be afraid of going up a tire size and having rubbing issues.

3) It's a significant cost to change wheels AND tires. Tires were bad enough. The STs seem to be performing well.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:49 PM   #8
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To be honest with you if maxxis keeps making a good quality st tire I see no reason to spend anymore money on the Lt tires. The akurets may be ok but I'm not willing to take the chance. I am having the maxxis put on at a local dealer next week. Once I seen the Lt tires were a inch taller there is no way I could use my x chocks. Plus I really think I would have rubbing issues.
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bignugget View Post
To be honest with you if maxxis keeps making a good quality st tire I see no reason to spend anymore money on the Lt tires. The akurets may be ok but I'm not willing to take the chance. I am having the maxxis put on at a local dealer next week. Once I seen the Lt tires were a inch taller there is no way I could use my x chocks. Plus I really think I would have rubbing issues.
IMO, as long as you are within the Maxxis capacity, you are fine, very good tire, never heard a bad thing about them. I had a Calisle authorized dealer guide me to the Maxxis, that were actually less expensive. The most important thing is to get the Akuret's off your rig. We had two blow outs, over three trips, at about 2,000 pounds below capacity. The second did over $2500 in damage and kept us from camping from July through October.
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:20 PM   #10
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I here ya. I am well below capacity. Just want the akurets gone. We used them last summer and they have about 3500 miles on them. I figured I have pushed them far enough.
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bignugget View Post
I here ya. I am well below capacity. Just want the akurets gone. We used them last summer and they have about 3500 miles on them. I figured I have pushed them far enough.
That is about what I had on mine and into their second season. Good luck.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:35 PM   #12
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I am into the second season with Aukret and I am gonna change mine to a better tire. I have one that he leaking so it is time to upgrade. I may go with a lt if I can find one to fit. A lot of gooseneck trailers come with lt tires.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:50 PM   #13
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I am into the second season with Aukret and I am gonna change mine to a better tire. I have one that he leaking so it is time to upgrade. I may go with a lt if I can find one to fit. A lot of gooseneck trailers come with lt tires.
I did some research on 16 & 17.5, ST and LT before trading for my Triliogy.

One LT option for a 16 aplication is the Goodyear G614RST

Tire Size: LT235/85R16, Load Range: G Sidewal: BW, Tread Depth (32s): 12, Apprvd. Rim Widths 6.50, New Tire Width: 9.5, Outside Diameter: 30.7 Max Load at Infla. (PSI) Single: 3750@110

When I traded, I upgraded to the Goodyear 17.5 G114, "H" rated, has single: 4850 @ 125.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:16 PM   #14
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They can't be wider because of the slide mechanism on one side.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:40 PM   #15
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That's what I ran into. The one on there now are really close.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
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They can't be wider because of the slide mechanism on one side.
Not sure what you are replacing, here are some Akuret numbers:

Akuret HF188 ST Radial ST235/80R16 Tire Specifications Max Load: 3417 Tread Depth: 10.00 Uninflated Overall Width: 9.30 Uninflated Overall Diameter: 30.80 Approved Rim Width: 6.5 - See more at: $86.99 - Akuret ST235/80R16 21299624 tires at SimpleTire.com

Little difference from the LT 235/85R16 example below...

One LT option for a 16 aplication is the Goodyear G614RST

Tire Size: LT235/85R16, Load Range: G Sidewal: BW, Tread Depth (32s): 12, Apprvd. Rim Widths 6.50, New Tire Width: 9.5, Outside Diameter: 30.7 Max Load at Infla. (PSI) Single: 3750@110

you might be able to pull it off.

Out of necessity, I replaced one axle with an 85 while running 80 on the other...very little difference...as recomended by reputable tire dealer.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:40 PM   #17
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I emailed Michelin and they said they don't make a tire that's the right size and specs for the Columbus. I'm thinking about the Goodyear as they say they're now made in the U.S. again instead of China.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:35 PM   #18
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I emailed Michelin and they said they don't make a tire that's the right size and specs for the Columbus. I'm thinking about the Goodyear as they say they're now made in the U.S. again instead of China.
The last I knew, all ST tires are made in China, with the exception of Maxxis, that are made in Thailand. However, if going with an ST, having a name brand is better in that there is someone to call if and when you have problems. Example, Goodyear, several years back, made good on a class action issues on its Chinese made ST tires.
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:40 PM   #19
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Take it for what it is worth

As stated take this for what it is worth. Believe it or not about ST Vs LT tires. I realize Carlisle has an agenda so make up your own mind. Don't shoot the messenger.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Trailer_Tires__Tips_Best_Practices.pdf (1.13 MB, 52 views)
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:52 PM   #20
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Here is an article that I copied from another site if visit often offering another view of the ST vs. LT tire battle.

This debate will be entertained until there are no more RV's, so with that, for inquiring minds with an afternoon of spare time to read and research the references, here is one of the best informative writings on the ST vs LT that I have read. I copied it from a post on the Montana owners site where a very lively discussion ensued for days.

Here is the info a guy compiled from the government site on tire testing....

SUMMARY OF FINDINGS & CONCLUSIONS

I found the testing requirements for both the ST and LT tires at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage.

The testing for each tire is comprised of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

The testing for (1) bead unseating resistance and (2) strength were identical for tires representative of moderate to heavy 5th wheels and thus no advantage is given to either tire type.

The testing for (3) endurance was found to be significantly different between the ST and LT tires.

Both the ST and LT are put through the same initial pressure, time and load profile. The total profile lasts 34 hours of continuous run time starting at 85% of rated load and ending at 100% of rated load. To further stress the tires, a load range E tire (nominal 80 psi rating) is tested at a reduced pressure of 60 psi to induce additional load on the tire during testing. (This is reasonable that testing should be conservative.)

But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.

The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.

The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.

The testing for (4) high speed performance.

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a 90 minute speed/time profile.

The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire.

However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities when compared to a ST tire (99 vs. 85 mph maximum speed). This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire.

Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

Conclusion:

It is reasonable to conclude that these test requirements force the tire manufacturer to construct an LT tire more substantially than an ST tire. This is also a reasonable explanation for the same size LT tire is rated at a slightly lower maximum load than a ST tire.

And now, for those of you who need to know all the details, read on!

REFERENCES

The references for my evaluation may be found at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage:
ST tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 109.
http://www.fmcsa.dot...90163348008f295
LT tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 139.
http://www.fmcsa.dot...90163348008f2a9
Part 571, subsection 139 references Part 571 subsection 119 which can be found at:
http://www.fmcsa.dot...90163348008f29d

QUICK NOTES

Each standard for the ST and LT tires has definitions, significant constraints on labeling, etc. that I will not address. There are also tire conditioning (temperature), tire break in, etc. that are the same or similar for ST and LT that I will not address. The details are in the references.

The (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance tests must not result in tire failure. Tire failure includes visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, inner liner, or bead separation, chunking, broken cords, cracking, or open splices, not just a blowout.

TESTING - BEAD UNSEATING RESISTANCE

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.2.2)

The tire is mounted horizontally and a vertical load is applied to the tire’s outer sidewall at a rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Increase the load until the bead unseats or a specified value is reached.

Repeat the test at least four places equally spaced around the tire circumference.

LT Tire:

Paragraph “S6.6 Tubeless tire bead unseating resistance” references the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for bead unseating resistance is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - STRENGTH

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.3.2.1)

Force a 19 mm (3?4 inch) diameter cylindrical steel plunger with a hemispherical end perpendicularly into the tread rib as near to the centerline as possible, avoiding penetration into the tread groove, at the rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Compute the breaking energy for each test point by means of a provided formula.

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.5.2)

Each tire shall comply with the requirements of S7.3 of 571.119, which is tires for vehicles weighing 10,000 lb or more. Per S7.3 of 571.119 for our example tire, the testing is the same as the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for strength is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - ENDURANCE

The following is for a ST or LT tire of less than nominal cross section less than or equal to 295 mm (11.5 inches) which is typical of a 5th wheel application.

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.4.2)

There are specifications for the contact of the tire mounted on a test axle and steel test wheel after the test that I will not address because they are similar for the ST and LT.

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

Conduct the test at 80 kilometers per hour (km/h)(50 miles per hour) in accordance with the following schedule without pressure adjustment or other interruptions:

The loads for the following periods are the specified percentage of the maximum load rating marked on the tire sidewall:
Time and Percent of rated load
4 hours, 85%
6 hours, 90%
24 hours, 100%

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.3.1.2)

“Conduct the test, without interruptions, at the test speed of not less than 120 km/h…” (75 mph)

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

This test uses the same profile as the ST tire.

Immediately following the above sequence perform a Low Inflation Pressure Performance test (reference paragraph S6.4):
This test uses the same tire/wheel as the previous sequence at a reduced pressure.

For a load range E tire the pressure is reduced to 46 psi. (320 kPa)

The same tire/wheel is run an additional 2 hours at the reduced pressure at a speed of 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Conclusion:

The difference in endurance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a equivalent loading/time profile. However, the LT tire is tested at this profile at a higher speed (75 vs. 50 mph) and must still endure an additional 2 hour low pressure test without failure. Thus the overall test for the LT is far more rigorous than the ST test.

TESTING - HIGH SPEED PERFORMANCE

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.5.4)

Load the tire to 88 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
75 mph (121 km/h) for 30 minutes
80 mph (129 km/h) for 30 minutes
85 mph (137 km/h) for 30 minutes

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.2.1.2.7)

Load the tire to 85 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
87 mph (140 km/h) for 30 minutes
93 mph (150 km/h) for 30 minutes
99 mph (160 km/h) for 30 minutes

Conclusion:

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a speed/time profile. The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire. However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities (nearly 100 mph!) when compared to a ST tire. This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire. Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.
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