Need Help No Power

[TURBS]

I've spoken with bombdoc hmmm maybe he needs to be a member of ppstc "bombdoc"
Anyway he seems to have all 12 volt equipment and some 110.

He's now plugged in via 50-30-15 adapter for the night.
Water pump is working
Converter appears to be working

No microwave
No tv

Outlets are working.

Going to check water heater and fridge tomorrow.

He's pretty bummed.

Turbs

[jimh]

wmtire, the tie is made at the adapter. it isn't any different than plugging a 30A trailer into the same thing. i just had to get the adapter out of my mind to see that.
you have 220 available to u in the trailer breaker box; it just isn't meant to be used that way. i have two breaker wired that way but it is used in conjunction with an Eaton CHSPT2 surge suppressor.

[jimh]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

I've spoken with bombdoc hmmm maybe he needs to be a member of ppstc "bombdoc"
Anyway he seems to have all 12 volt equipment and some 110.

He's now plugged in via 50-30-15 adapter for the night.
Water pump is working
Converter appears to be working

No microwave
No tv

Outlets are working.

Going to check water heater and fridge tomorrow.

He's pretty bummed.

Turbs

i hope his frig makes it. the microwave and tv i can understand. if he is lucky, the tv and microwave may be repaired with an (internal) fuse. i doubt his damage is as bad as it first appears.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by jimh

i hope his frig makes it. the microwave and tv i can understand. if he is lucky, the tv and microwave may be repaired with an (internal) fuse. i doubt his damage is as bad as it first appears.

That's what I'm hoping.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by jimh

wmtire, the tie is made at the adapter. it isn't any different than plugging a 30A trailer into the same thing. i just had to get the adapter out of my mind to see that.
you have 220 available to u in the trailer breaker box; it just isn't meant to be used that way. i have two breaker wired that way but it is used in conjunction with an Eaton CHSPT2 surge suppressor.

I see what you are saying and you are correct. After I studied the 50 to 30 amp adapter, it appears that it actually bridges the two sides (not splits), and will provide 30 amps to both sides at the same time. However, by using this adapter, you are limited to 30 amps total, no matter which side uses it.

Ex: L1 uses 25 amps, then you can only use 5 amps of stuff that is wired on L2.



So please ignore my posts about the service being split at the dogbone adapter before it hits the trailer.

If the OP is all the way down to a 15 amp adapter, it probably wouldn't be advisable for him to try/test his air conditioner(s) till he has more power.

[VinceU]

Heres the likley troublemaker, NEMA 10 old standard used for 220V appliances but the plug is identical to the 30 amp 110V trailer standard of today.

[edit]NEMA 10


NEMA 10-30
NEMA 10 devices are a curious throwback to an earlier time. They are classified as 125/250 V non-grounding (hot-hot-neutral), yet they are usually used in a manner that effectively grounds the appliance, though not in a manner consistent with most modern practice.
As commonly used, 10–30 and 10–50 plugs have the frame of the appliance grounded through the neutral blade. This was a legal grounding method under the National Electrical Code for electric ranges and electric clothes dryers from the 1947 to the 1996 edition. Since North American dryers and ranges have certain parts (timers, lights, fans, etc.) that run on 120 V, this means that the wire used for grounding is also carrying current. Although this is contrary to modern grounding practice, such installations remain common in the United States and are relatively safe, because the larger conductors used are less likely to be broken than the smaller conductors used in ordinary appliance cords, and the current carried is small.


Obsolete 125 V, 15 A / 250 V, 10 A duplex outlet
NEMA 10–20 devices are very rare nowadays, but are occasionally found in homes that once had a large window air conditioner. There is also a similar obsolete design, lacking a NEMA configuration number, rated 125 V, 15 A / 250 V, 10 A, which is nearly identical to the AS/NZS 3112 standard used in Australia/New Zealand. It has existed as far back as 1915, and is seen in US patent 1,179,728.[7] They are also extremely rare.

[jimh]

my dryer is wired that way. i was thinking the difference between the two was the "round ground" on the trailer socket. i was thinking the dryer had 3 spades (i've slept sense i installed that socket so i really don't remember). either way, they are close enough that they can be confused.

[VinceU]

Was thinking in op's case naybe was a shop tool outlet like a lathe or other heavy tool. These look akike oulets with 220V have showed up before in "the garage"

[TURBS]

Looks like at this point the op's tv and microwave is gone.
Fridge appears to be working.
Has not tried water heater yet.
When I talked to him he hadn't tried a/c or furnace yet either.
I believe he's on his way home today.


Turbs

[jeeplj8]

For 7 bucks, maybe this is the answer - you will know how many volts are present at the plug through whatever adapter you plan to use before you plug in your rv:
Blue LCD Volt Meter AC 80 300V for 110V 120V 220V 230V 240V American Style Plug | eBay

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

For 7 bucks, maybe this is the answer - you will know how many volts are present at the plug through whatever adapter you plan to use before you plug in your rv:
Blue LCD Volt Meter AC 80 300V for 110V 120V 220V 230V 240V American Style Plug | eBay

All true as long as your in the mindset that the plug-in that your about to plug into may be something different than your camper requirements.
According to the op the plug-in looked exactly like it should via an adapter and plugged right in.


Turbs

[VinceU]

Good idea for household outlets in the States and Europe where 220 volt is used. No help where heavier 30 amp and 50 amp receptacles exist. A decent multimeter tests all the above.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Looks like at this point the op's tv and microwave is gone.
Fridge appears to be working.
Has not tried water heater yet.
When I talked to him he hadn't tried a/c or furnace yet either.
I believe he's on his way home today.


Turbs

Thanks for the update. I was just about to send you a PM asking about him.

I really wish there was some way that it would be possible to educate all our members on this danger in a proactive instead of reactive way. However, some members don't even find this forum till the damage has been done and they are looking for solutions.

It makes me wonder if we couldn't put together some kind of introductory (basically a beginner's 101 list with just very important things like checking for 220 volts) file, that would be pointed out in the members registration/activation link. If it just saves one member from experiencing this grief, it would be worth it IMHO. I'm just thinking out loud.

P.S. I may start another forum asking everyone what pertinent info they would suggest be included in this file. If nothing else, we could put one together that could be linked to in the future with this info.

[BombDoc]

All,
I would like to say thanks to everyone that offered their opinion and advice. In response to Ttreaves, you are 100% correct, I should have known. But, I would especially like to thank Turbs, who made himself available and answered every question I had. I, as well as all of my family, thank him for his willingness to help.

Here is what I know so far..........which isn't much, but more than I knew last week.

Fridge works on 110V. Turned it on Sunday and ran it for several hours.
All electrical outlets have 110/115V. Wife and daughter used hair dryer with no problems.
Thermostat works for the furnace. Used it Saturday night..no problems.
All lights work (LED). Everyone came on with battery power and 110V shore power.

The bad news:
TV is gone, I am assuming. Removed plug from the wall and tested with meter, 115v at the outlet, TV will not come on.
Fireplace, below the TV will not come on, Genesis Radio between the TV and Fireplace works just fine.
Microwave, will not come on.

Here are my questions:
1. Can the TV be repaired, or is worth dealing with?
2. Same with the microwave, toss it? Or can it be fixed?
3. Fireplace, any chance it is protected?

Could this have destroyed both/either of my A/C's?

The best news, is we used the trailer, visited family, kids got to see grandparents, and made it home safely. Lots of things could be worse.

[TURBS]

Thanks for the kind words bombdoc!

As with all electronics there's a fine line between cost of repair and replacement cost.
There may be fuses in both the tv and microwave that may be simple fixes.
Same with the fireplace.

I would check with tech service from each manufacturer and maybe see if you can get some info.

Good luck and keep us informed.


Turbs

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by BombDoc

All,
I would like to say thanks to everyone that offered their opinion and advice. In response to Ttreaves, you are 100% correct, I should have known. But, I would especially like to thank Turbs, who made himself available and answered every question I had. I, as well as all of my family, thank him for his willingness to help.

Here is what I know so far..........which isn't much, but more than I knew last week.

Fridge works on 110V. Turned it on Sunday and ran it for several hours.
All electrical outlets have 110/115V. Wife and daughter used hair dryer with no problems.
Thermostat works for the furnace. Used it Saturday night..no problems.
All lights work (LED). Everyone came on with battery power and 110V shore power.

The bad news:
TV is gone, I am assuming. Removed plug from the wall and tested with meter, 115v at the outlet, TV will not come on.
Fireplace, below the TV will not come on, Genesis Radio between the TV and Fireplace works just fine.
Microwave, will not come on.

Here are my questions:
1. Can the TV be repaired, or is worth dealing with?
2. Same with the microwave, toss it? Or can it be fixed?
3. Fireplace, any chance it is protected?

Could this have destroyed both/either of my A/C's?

The best news, is we used the trailer, visited family, kids got to see grandparents, and made it home safely. Lots of things could be worse.

John, unless your air-conditioners were on, I strongly believe they will be OK. As far as the rest, there may have possibly been some kind of internal fuse protection (but I can't attest to that at all). It's common for when this event happens, that it trashes the microwave and TV. Maybe an electronics expert will chime in here with a better answer.

I hate to hear of these stories, and am sorry to hear it happened to you. Like you said, it could have been worse. It's just one of those things that happens, so don't knock yourself out about it. Just climb over the hill and enjoy your camping time with your family, as it sounds you already have.

As far as Turbs go, we plan on keeping him on staff here. Might even give him a raise.

[treaves]

I'd think any equipment not working should be further investigated. A lot of these items will have internal fuses, so, the TV for example, may work after replacing an internal fuse. The hard part will be finding a knowledgeable appliance repair person; they are a very endangered breed.

Call around to a few appliance stores in your area, and speak with an actual repair person, and see what they'd charge to investigate.

As I've never owned a camper, I'm very nervous as to what I'm going to do wrong with mine; I know I will. I put a huge gouge in my wife's brand new Featherlite goose-neck horse trailer the day we picked it up (luckily the aluminum just stretched & didn't break through), because as we were pulling into a gas station, I was paying attention to the wheels - being afraid I'd run the pump over - and totally ignored a cigarette ad sign hung above. I felt terrible for days. So I'm being extra thorough preparing for my Columbus. One of the posts where someone else did this, it burnt down their trailer, for a total loss. I really do not understand why these protection devices aren't standard, but, there again, I don't understand why my Ram truck didn't have the cabin air filter in as standard (it was a $15 part).

[SYE]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

I've spoken with bombdoc hmmm maybe he needs to be a member of ppstc "bombdoc"
Anyway he seems to have all 12 volt equipment and some 110.

He's now plugged in via 50-30-15 adapter for the night.
Water pump is working
Converter appears to be working

No microwave
No tv

Outlets are working.

Going to check water heater and fridge tomorrow.

He's pretty bummed.

Turbs

Good member matertial!!!!

[jimh]

other than the above suggestions to check internal fuses; the microwave, not sure if it is eaisly replaced with the same kind. if it is an over the range, ur best bet may be to have it repaired. replacements of other brands may not fit the support plate near the wall. control boards etc are available for the microwave at a fairly low price.
i would hope the fuses and/or power supply parts may all that has been damaged on the TV. if that is all, it may not be an inexpensive repair.

[phinner]

Most microwaves have a fuse in them - looks like a buss fuse only bigger and solid in color (not glass). It also may or may not have wire connectors attached to it. Look for a panel around the plug. The TV may be toast. I would take the back off and there should be a regular buss fuse in it also. Replace that and plug it back in. If it works, you're golden. If not, it may be cheaper just to replace the TV. Just make sure everything is unplugged before working on it.