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Old 08-31-2016, 08:19 AM   #21
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I took the left 2 off one day and the right 2 a different day. I bought my LT's from Merchants tires (Big O) not a camper dealer. It was easier to take 2 tires in at a time than drag the whole camper down there. They knew it was for a trailer, no questions asked. IMO if that's the only way to do it, it is still worth it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:30 AM   #22
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I took the left 2 off one day and the right 2 a different day. I bought my LT's from Merchants tires (Big O) not a camper dealer. It was easier to take 2 tires in at a time than drag the whole camper down there. They knew it was for a trailer, no questions asked. IMO if that's the only way to do it, it is still worth it.
I'm glad you got what you wanted. I really don't understand why FR will put there junk on these units, it all boils down to cost. Some of these trailer are just to heavy for ST, but I would even worry if the unit came with a no name LT tire on it. I called Michlin they told me they had a 15" tire that would fit, but when I went to dealers they said they couldn't get them, but now why did the Corporate office tell me they had them. I would have bought them in a hot second. Since 3 years ago when GY had all there ST made over seas there has been nothing but problems with them. I hope my luck is better with Maxxis. My trailer is 4 years old and this is the second set I have put on it already...
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:42 AM   #23
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RV trailer tire fitments are the same in one respect, the vehicle manufacturer is solely responsible for the selection and fitment of tires to all vehicles they manufacturer. For RV trailer owners that becomes a complex problem. Few will take the time to study and understand the intricacies of the system and how it is all meshed together.

The most important factor after the fact of tire fitment is certification. This is where the vehicle manufacturer swears to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration(NHTSA) that the tire fitments depicted on the vehicle certification label are appropriate for that vehicle as long as the recommended inflation pressures are maintained as a minimum requirement. In doing so, the trailer manufacturer has taken the tire manufacturer off the hook - so to speak - of responsibility, as long as the tire has been properly manufactured and has no defects.

Therein lies the dilemma for trailer owners and tire retailers. There are no lists for suitable replacement tires for the RV trailer. Tire designs that differ from the Original Equipment (OE) tire design are not considered appropriate unless they are on the vehicle manufacturer’s optional equipment list for that trailer. The trailer’s owner’s manual is required to have a tire safety section. That section is going to tell the trailer owner to seek recommendations from the vehicle manufacturer for replacement tires. A follow-along statement may read “ use tires of the same size and load capacity as the OE tires“. Unbeknown to most vehicle owners is the fact that ST235/80R16E is a complete tire size. The ST locks in the appropriate tire design. The suffix “E” locks in the load range of the tire.

---

The 16” tires range from 3000# of load capacity to 4080# of load capacity.
My big issue is that (often?) the RV manufacturer plain gets it wrong. On my camper, I have 7,000 lb. axles. I came to realize (at about year 3 1/2) that my original OEM tires had a load carrying capacity of 3,420 lbs. each - meaning, I had 6,840 lbs. of rubber carrying 7,000 lb. axles. My certification label on the camper reflects 7,000 lbs for the GAWR.

Once I went fulltiming and had an individual wheel weights weighing done, I came to learn that I was overloaded on 1 tire and maxed out on 2 more. In hunting for higher capacity replacements, I found that there were no tires in my complete tire size (ST235/80R16E) that would fit. The problem is that my axles are too close together. I already had less than 2" of clearance between my tires and increasing the outer diameter would have taken them even closer.

LTs actually weren't an option for the same reason.

My only options were:
a) Make a huge jump to load range G with the Goodyear G614 (didn't come in my exact wheel size w/ 80 vs 85) or Sailun S637 (which did come in my size)
b) Go nuts and swap out the whole wheels + tires to a much higher load capacity and put on commercial trailer tires. (Which is what I did)

Given that RV manufacturers get it wrong AND it doesn't seem like mine is an isolated case- the only viable option is to look past the certification label and pick a better option.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:53 AM   #24
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X'2 you will be hard pressed to find a dealer to install LT tires on a trailer when the sticker reads ST here in Virginia. So I looked for the best ST tire on the market. I switched to Maxxis 8008 "D" rated tires. I have been very happy with the out come and handling since. The only way I could have put on LT tires on would be to take each tire off and take it down to the tire shop and have them install them one by one. When I went to tire dealers the first thing they did was check the sticker on the trailer, mine says ST "C" rated. I was able to move up to "D" rated only without having to buy new rims to except "E" rated pressure. My rims are maxed out at 65 PSI stamped on them. Not all ST tires are bad. I don't here of to many complaints on here about the Maxxis ST 8008. It's a very good tire. I'm not worried about my speed rating of 65 because I don't hardly ever go over that speed anyway. The tires that came from the factory were called Trail Express. Try to find a dealer who can even get those no name tires, Noboby but Lion Head sells them. In fact even in NC where I had to put new tires on before going home from the Mayberry Rally also refused to sell me LT because he said the sticker says ST. and they couldn't put LT tires on because of the sticker.
Have to wonder if those same tire dealers refuse to put "S" speed rated passenger tires on a car that came with "T" or "H" speed rated tires.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:20 AM   #25
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My big issue is that (often?) the RV manufacturer plain gets it wrong. On my camper, I have 7,000 lb. axles. I came to realize (at about year 3 1/2) that my original OEM tires had a load carrying capacity of 3,420 lbs. each - meaning, I had 6,840 lbs. of rubber carrying 7,000 lb. axles. My certification label on the camper reflects 7,000 lbs for the GAWR.

Once I went fulltiming and had an individual wheel weights weighing done, I came to learn that I was overloaded on 1 tire and maxed out on 2 more. In hunting for higher capacity replacements, I found that there were no tires in my complete tire size (ST235/80R16E) that would fit. The problem is that my axles are too close together. I already had less than 2" of clearance between my tires and increasing the outer diameter would have taken them even closer.

LTs actually weren't an option for the same reason.

My only options were:
a) Make a huge jump to load range G with the Goodyear G614 (didn't come in my exact wheel size w/ 80 vs 85) or Sailun S637 (which did come in my size)
b) Go nuts and swap out the whole wheels + tires to a much higher load capacity and put on commercial trailer tires. (Which is what I did)

Given that RV manufacturers get it wrong AND it doesn't seem like mine is an isolated case- the only viable option is to look past the certification label and pick a better option.
Your 7,000 lb axles are not carrying the whole load, right? The kingpin has about 20% of that doesn't it?
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:24 AM   #26
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Your 7,000 lb axles are not carrying the whole load, right? The kingpin has about 20% of that doesn't it?

Nope, I'm running just shy of 14,000 lbs. on the axles and another 3,000 lbs. of pin weight.

I have a camper GVWR of 15,825 and last checked was at 16,800. I was carrying water and we've been camper dieting. I'll weigh again in 2 weeks when we leave this campground and then will do a major/deep purge immediately after.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:03 PM   #27
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My big issue is that (often?) the RV manufacturer plain gets it wrong. On my camper, I have 7,000 lb. axles. I came to realize (at about year 3 1/2) that my original OEM tires had a load carrying capacity of 3,420 lbs. each - meaning, I had 6,840 lbs. of rubber carrying 7,000 lb. axles. My certification label on the camper reflects 7,000 lbs for the GAWR.

Once I went fulltiming and had an individual wheel weights weighing done, I came to learn that I was overloaded on 1 tire and maxed out on 2 more. In hunting for higher capacity replacements, I found that there were no tires in my complete tire size (ST235/80R16E) that would fit. The problem is that my axles are too close together. I already had less than 2" of clearance between my tires and increasing the outer diameter would have taken them even closer.

LTs actually weren't an option for the same reason.

My only options were:
a) Make a huge jump to load range G with the Goodyear G614 (didn't come in my exact wheel size w/ 80 vs 85) or Sailun S637 (which did come in my size)
b) Go nuts and swap out the whole wheels + tires to a much higher load capacity and put on commercial trailer tires. (Which is what I did)

Given that RV manufacturers get it wrong AND it doesn't seem like mine is an isolated case- the only viable option is to look past the certification label and pick a better option.
What did your certification label list the GAWR value was for those axles?

Only a few of the ST tire brands are actually rated for 3420#. Most are 3500# or 3520#.

FR could have made a better fitment for your trailer. They want the axles close together to help limit the drag and they could have done that with ST235/85R16E or LRF fitments with minimal distance increase in axle separation.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:50 PM   #28
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What did your certification label list the GAWR value was for those axles?

Only a few of the ST tire brands are actually rated for 3420#. Most are 3500# or 3520#.

FR could have made a better fitment for your trailer. They want the axles close together to help limit the drag and they could have done that with ST235/85R16E or LRF fitments with minimal distance increase in axle separation.
Certification label says 7,000 lbs.



My Akuret HF188 were 3,420 and the Maxxis m8008 were also.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:26 PM   #29
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Certification label says 7,000 lbs.



My Akuret HF188 were 3,420 and the Maxxis m8008 were also.
Another example of sloppy work by FR. This placard violates Federal Regulation. I would file a complaint with NHTSA for not providing tires that would support the listed load of 3,500# or more. DO NOT accept just some replacement stickers from FR. You paid for 14,000 worth of axle capacity and that is what you want from FR.

Too often FR simply gets away with just sending some new stickers with new and lower load ratings.
IMO just as car companies have had to pony up $$$$$ to compensate buyers when the advertised horsepower wasn't what the car delivered I think its time for RV companies to be held accountable for load capacity.

The Horsepower fins and compensation is adequate president for you to ask NHTSA to get FR to fix or replace your RV with the load capacity you paid for or provide at least a proportional refund of the purchase price including the sales tax.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:27 PM   #30
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Another example of sloppy work by FR. This placard violates Federal Regulation. I would file a complaint with NHTSA for not providing tires that would support the listed load of 3,500# or more. DO NOT accept just some replacement stickers from FR. You paid for 14,000 worth of axle capacity and that is what you want from FR.

Too often FR simply gets away with just sending some new stickers with new and lower load ratings.
IMO just as car companies have had to pony up $$$$$ to compensate buyers when the advertised horsepower wasn't what the car delivered I think its time for RV companies to be held accountable for load capacity.

The Horsepower fins and compensation is adequate president for you to ask NHTSA to get FR to fix or replace your RV with the load capacity you paid for or provide at least a proportional refund of the purchase price including the sales tax.


This all happened in 2012 and I've since upgraded tires twice and wheels once. Is there any value in filing with the NHTSA now?
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:41 PM   #31
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This all happened in 2012 and I've since upgraded tires twice and wheels once. Is there any value in filing with the NHTSA now?
Yes! It will force FR to correct a similar mistake in that model line. Others with the same misapplication will be informed via recall notifications from FR of the error.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:47 PM   #32
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Yes! It will force FR to correct a similar mistake in that model line. Others with the same misapplication will be informed via recall notifications from FR of the error.


Link and process?
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:27 PM   #33
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Link and process?
Most recalls of this nature are handled by the vehicle manufacturer.

Send them a copy of the picture of the trailer’s certification label. They should know the brand and size tires that were on the unit at first sale. They are supposed to keep that record for five years from date of sale. So just remind them of the brand and load capacity.

You should also remind them that you will provide copies of your email/letter to NHTSA.

FR will inform NHTSA of the situation and request a recall be started and list the remedy. If NHTSA approves their remedy the recall will become official.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:54 AM   #34
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Link and process?
I have written a number of posts with the required links at NHTSA as well as some examples of both good and some not so good filings.
"Why aren't there more recalls of bad RV tires?"I have a 3 part post titled "ow to File a Complaint with NHTSA"
Part 1, has links to the NHTSA web site and info on what is needed to complete the forms

Pate 2 covers how to write a meaningful complaint

Part 3 has examples of good and poor complaints


I also cover

When to file a complaint with NHTSA


Do not expect NHTSA to replace your tires or fix the RV. That is the responsibility of the RV company. This is not a quick process but it is the only way to get the real attention of RV companies. I would include a statement that simply providing a new sticker is NOT an acceptable "fix" as far as you are concerned. I would point out the reduction in CCC for your RV.

FR and RVIA of course want to avoid making any real improvements in the quality of either their product or their work as that might cost them some money. They want to do a "recall" at as low a cost as possible so they will propose mailing out new stickers as a "solution".

A new sticker will not give you the CCC you paid for or that was advertised.

FR has an extensive history of making this type of error. The fact that they continue to do so after a number of "recalls: shows that IMO they have not learned their lesson. I believe the reason for this continued problem is that the cost of building a poor quality product hasn't gotten the attention of FR so why should they spend any money or make a real effort to fix the systemic problem they appear to have.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:07 AM   #35
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Yes! It will force FR to correct a similar mistake in that model line. Others with the same misapplication will be informed via recall notifications from FR of the error.
Air I disagree that simply replacing the sticker will "force FR" to make any real improvement in their corporate mindset. FR keeps amking the same mistake over and over again. IMO this is because it is less expensive to have to mail out a few stickers than to actually have someone pay attention to the Federal Regulations involved and to ensure that the product coming off the assembly line actually functions as advertised.

All to often we see that the original owner has to spend time and money correcting the numerous errors and results of sloppy slipshod work done in the assembly plant.

I have to wonder ifhen you received a new aircraft were you expecting it to be airworthy when received or did you have to spend months and hundreds of man-hours fixing screw ups made by Grumman on their assembly line?
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:27 AM   #36
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Have had on average 2 blowouts a year for past 8 years on ST tires on a variety of trailers.

I switched to LT tires this year and this was my first summer without a blowout.

ST tire advocates can keep their ST tires. I'll stick with my LT tires and keep watching for those elusive to find LT tire blew threads on the forum.


Yup. Once you see the "LT light", you never go back. The ST advocates continue to believe failures are due to neglect and abuse... and not crappy tires.... even though everyone that has a blowout says they took care of them.

I believe there are two types of ST owners: those who have had blowouts (along with costly camper damage)... and those who will.

Me and my LT's truck on down the highway at 70 mph... without TPMS. Not a care in the world!


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Old 09-01-2016, 10:32 AM   #37
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Yup. Once you see the "LT light", you never go back. The ST advocates continue to believe failures are due to neglect and abuse... and not crappy tires.... even though everyone that has a blowout says they took care of them.

I believe there are two types of ST owners: those who have had blowouts (along with costly camper damage)... and those who will.

Me and my LT's truck on down the highway at 70 mph... without TPMS. Not a care in the world!


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Old 09-01-2016, 11:27 AM   #38
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Air I disagree that simply replacing the sticker will "force FR" to make any real improvement in their corporate mindset. FR keeps amking the same mistake over and over again. IMO this is because it is less expensive to have to mail out a few stickers than to actually have someone pay attention to the Federal Regulations involved and to ensure that the product coming off the assembly line actually functions as advertised.

All to often we see that the original owner has to spend time and money correcting the numerous errors and results of sloppy slipshod work done in the assembly plant.

I have to wonder if when you received a new aircraft were you expecting it to be airworthy when received or did you have to spend months and hundreds of man-hours fixing screw ups made by Grumman on their assembly line? It was airworthy when it arrived because thet's how it got to you. During acceptance inspection erros found were fixed by the inspection crew. Safety of flight items were reported back to the manufacture much like recall information is reported to NHTSA or the manufacturer.
I made special effort to avoid wording such as improvement as remedy is more descriptive.
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Old 09-01-2016, 11:51 AM   #39
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FR is not the only RV trailer manufacturer that has problems getting the correct information on their trailer’s certification labels.

I watch the recalls and how they are handled. And Tireman9 probably does to, because he mentioned the most common remedy for incorrect GAWR values on the certification label is to deduct what is needed from the cargo label to make it right. Then all they have to do is issue new certification & cargo labels.

Here is a NHTSA quote I often post about cargo. It’s from a NHTSA PDF.

“The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use.”
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:39 PM   #40
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I really do not think you can just say that even though you just did, I know of many members that will swear that there Maxxis 8008 ST is probably the best ST tire on the Market
I know for a fact that Youroo has ran his old Maxxis for 5 years without even a flat, he or lyrics bought new ones be caused they aged out
Just love you guys that think the only good tire is an LT. That's pretty closed minded. If you like your LT that is great and I'm glad you have them me I will stay with ST, and Maxxis.
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