RV Industry Death Spiral - Great Read

[TheWolfPaq82]

With the 3 year boom in the RV industry, there was a report this summer from game and parks in Nebraska that summed up that with the new registered campers in the state, the ratio of campers to campsites was at about 4:1. This is why I heading down to MO. on saturday to check out 34 acres of land to put a nice cabin and my trailer on.

[russhd1997]

As far as new campgrounds go part of the reason that no one is starting a new one is because of all of the red tape and politics that you have to go through to do it. I was looking into buying a campground that was being sold near me. Just to tear down an outdated restroom and bathhouse and replace it with a new one meant first going to the state for septic approval then fighting with the town for approval to build it. Multiply that by having to build more restrooms and outbuildings meant many more headaches. When I went to the town planning board meetings to see how the process worked I was told by one of the board members that they never approve anything on the first visit. Needless to say I didn't purchase the campground.

[Oaklevel]

Just my 2 cents......... Campers are basically built the same way and same quality as they were in 1985......... The biggest difference is slide outs and a 32 foot camper and larger is not rare as it was back then. Roofs are better now. But quality is the same or better now..........

Where we currently go a year or more reservation is required for a summer site. Many more campers out there today........ There are several new campgrounds in the high traffic areas near here (mid Atlantic).

[amullis]

Originally Posted by AFDON

OK, I remember reading this but my take on it is this. I haven't been over a lot of the country in the past three years, but between N. Tn and Pensacola I have seen ONE new campground, and its right on the Interstate. How do we overcome the lack of new campgrounds? Where are all these new units camping, where do the city folks store them? Folks are going to quit buying if there is no place to go.

My thoughts too! With all these new units on the road, where are they going to stay and store those units? I haven't seen any new RV storage places in my area (Tampa, Florida). No new RV oriented camping areas.

I suggested to the Kennedy Space Center Visitors Center that they needed an RV campground/resort at their location. Presently, if you drive or tow an RV, you are staying 10+ miles or more away from KSC. If they had a facility right there, they become a "destination resort" instead of a tourist attraction only. They responded to me that they would take this up for consideration.

I keep thinking that maybe a good startup business is to open an RV resort in my area with RV storage as well. RV storage would have open and covered spots, with or without power, a dump station, and a wash rack.

[Big Bill]

Yes Iread through it long with alot of negativity ,, things havent changed much in 30 yrs since i started, i do wonder whats going to happen in the next 10 yrs? Its still a great lifestyle , you have to find a good dealer and repair shop and expect things r going to happen. The TV have impr toved and the amenties on TT r endless, whow , from when i started with a 25 ft TT with no air and awning ! we added a awning and doubled our size ,a fantastic fan would cool when the sun went down, Cheers Bill

[bruane]

There is not going to be an improvement in the the domestic RV producer quality till there is a transformational change from an outside influence. This situation reminds me of the domestic auto industry in the mid 70's where the big three had close to 90% of the market and their products started to rust out within two years. They were unreliable and inefficient. The consumer was told that's it and suck it. The Japanese appeared and in ten years they had lost over 50% of their market against more efficient, reliable and didn't rust products. If there was a problem the Japanese apologized and fixed it at no cost till they got it right. The RV industry needs this kind of transformational change to occur and then they will improve as the big three did finally although it took another 20 yrs and a major culture change, bankruptcy and a vast injection of taxpayer $ to finally force the changes.

[bikendan]

The problem is that there is no such possible outside influence for the RV Industry.
Europe has been making RV's for years yet none have even tried to export them.
Japan makes a few tiny ones but they too aren't exported.
It's not profitable because of the huge shipping costs.

RVs are a uniquely North American thing.
Only if a foreign manufacturer bought a RV manufacturer here, could there be some possible competition.

[amullis]

Maybe Some Chinese company will start making RVs and bring some foreign competition to the North American marketplace.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by amullis

Maybe Some Chinese company will start making RVs and bring some foreign competition to the North American marketplace.

Then you'll have a REAL piece of junk!!!!! Would probably be made almost entirely of lead, asbestos and other carcinogenic material. Try buying a knock off Chinese power tool and see if you still want a Chinese made camper. About the only thing on our campers right now from China are the tires- need I say more????

[dustman_stx]

And as far as campgrounds go- I advocate for bringing back the CCC and WPA. Let's put people to work instead of just giving them a check. Also use inmates. We could be building a lot of new campgrounds utilizing a labor force we're already paying for. There seems to be plenty of private campgrounds, but if that's all that's available I'll sell and find a new hobby. I have no interest in "camping" in a spot where my slide is within 5' of my neighbor.

[windsurfdog]

Originally Posted by amullis

Maybe Some Chinese company will start making RVs and bring some foreign competition to the North American marketplace.

Now that's an ironic statement given how many people bitch and moan on this site re: Chinese produced products..."China bombs" especially.

And, from what I've seen, Lance is building a superior product with quality well above others...and you pay a premium for it. Is it worth the extra cost? That certainly is a personal decision. For me, I'll stick with my Microlite for now but I will consider Lance seriously for my next trailer decision.

[amullis]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Then you'll have a REAL piece of junk!!!!! Would probably be made almost entirely of lead, asbestos and other carcinogenic material. Try buying a knock off Chinese power tool and see if you still want a Chinese made camper. About the only thing on our campers right now from China are the tires- need I say more????

Well, my thoughts were some Chinese concern would buy out an RV manufacturer here in the US and start building them in China too. It is what they do with their newfound wealth! I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened.

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by windsurfdog

Now that's an ironic statement given how many people bitch and moan on this site re: Chinese produced products..."China bombs" especially.

And, from what I've seen, Lance is building a superior product with quality well above others...and you pay a premium for it. Is it worth the extra cost? That certainly is a personal decision. For me, I'll stick with my Microlite for now but I will consider Lance seriously for my next trailer decision.

I think you sort of hit the issue on the head. Many RV manufacturers are capable of producing superior quality products, just slow down the assembly line, train the workers more (probably pay them more too) and use the best quality materials available. And then they would produce a unit that cost 10%-20% more than their competitor. 95% of the buyers would then still choose to buy the cheaper product just to save money and then complain about the poor quality. The other company must then improve productivity and reduce cost/price in order to stay in business at the expense of some amount of quality.

Lets face it, most folks buying an RV whether its a tent trailer or motorhome end up using it a few weekends per year, so they aren't interested in spending a lot more money. The other 20% of us, either live full-time in our RV's or at least use them extensively. Thus we find the quality issues much quicker. I have had several motorhomes and rarely have an issue with the chassis/drivetrain, its always issues with the house area. So I just learn to fix those things and eventually you have a rig where everything works and it rarely breaks. Of course then you decide to sell it and start all over again!

I think the majority of those new RV's will spend most of their lives rotting away in storage lots and not competing with us for camping spots.

[formerFR]

I'll comment on the author's comments concerning rv parks:
.......they, as an industry, should require each to apply the correct 'name' to whether they are a rv park, or resort, or campground, etc... amongst other 'requirements' of how they should run their PRIVATE business!.....

really???

apparently the author thinks that all individual private rv parks and campgrounds are somehow in an 'industry' and are participating in an 'association' of some sort. I would suggest that most are NOT, they are just local businesses, like anything else, and decide for themselves what and how they do it.

I actually like the fact that all the country's rv parks and campgrounds don't HAVE to share some type of 'system', but can make the choices they want to. I don't want every rv park and campground to be a 'corporate' one, and look the same everywhere.

Yes, I get that it can be a little annoying when you don't really know what to expect at certain rv parks and campgrounds, at least the smaller local ones, but that gives us choice, change, differences in experiences, and many times a lot less from our pocketbooks. I agree that if I just need an overnight, I don't need all the bells and whistles and children's playgrounds and pools and laundry and entertainment and restaurants and social gathering possibilities - I just need hook ups.

Yes, when I want an RV RESORT, I want an rv resort. Hot tub, heated pool, palm trees, paved sites, 50amp water and sewer, sun and waves! There's a market for these, and there's markets for the small local 30a and water only 'campgrounds' with few amenities. I actually shy away from the ones with the 'corporate' Signage - the largest of which we have stayed overnight only once in 3 1/2 years and 80,000 miles.

[AbdRahim]

Originally Posted by amullis

Maybe Some Chinese company will start making RVs and bring some foreign competition to the North American marketplace.

More likely Japanese. If Toyota came out with a line of Calais A's C's and trailers, the RV industry will take a beating like the car industry did, before they were forced to make a better product.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

More likely Japanese. If Toyota came out with a line of Calais A's C's and trailers, the RV industry will take a beating like the car industry did, before they were forced to make a better product.

Not going to happen. Not profitable since they don't have much of a home market for RVs, like they do autos.
And the shipping costs to transport over the Pacific, would be more costly than autos.

Maybe if Asian investors bought an American RV company.

[D W]

...and don't forget the tariffs!

[AbdRahim]

They make Toyotas here.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

They make Toyotas here.

Yes because they make Toyotas in Japan and sell them there also.
Hardly anyone in Japan uses RVs and the very few that do, have TINY trailers and motorhomes. Nothing like what North America prefers.
So they don't have a home market for American style RVs.
It's not worth making RVs in Asia and then shipping them over the Pacific, just for the NA market. They couldn't compete price-wise.

[pgandw]

Toyota or similar could make RVs in their US plants using production processes perfected in Japan. Quite feasible. But.....

Japanese cars (or any other product) weren't all that great when they first started in the US. Japanese Junk was the byword for something made in Japan in the late 50s through much of the 60s. However, by the end of the 60s, process improvement, led by Americans like Deming, had brought huge improvements in quality to Japanese production. Especially in automobiles (and motorcycles). Japanese quality knocked Britain out of the US auto and motorcycle markets.

Starting in the 70s, Toyota, Honda, and Datsun (now Nissan) began designing specifically for the US market instead of strictly for Japanese. The combination of very good quality along with US-friendly design was an incredible winner. Production of US type vehicles was generally moved to the US in the 80s to avoid tariff wars, and negative publicity from nearly driving the Big 3 under.

The question is whether or not a Japanese (or Korean) company would have the stomach for the investment and the likely initial losses in setting up a US plant producing RVs using home country production processes.

The same could be done by a US company but there is so much tradition and inertia in the current systems to overcome (see Ford). The current dealer model would not work, as the quality model requires investment in training and technical skills at all levels - not just at the manufacturer. Standardization of repair technicians and sales (including pricing) would be needed (is there any real difference from one Toyota dealer to the next?). Either new suppliers would be needed, or Lippert, Dometic, and other key parts suppliers would need to be dragged into the quality world. So there is a huge investment needed outside of just the manufacturing plant to get automotive quality.

just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W