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Old 02-25-2012, 02:32 PM   #51
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I don't think it gas prices will stop us from camping as much as we have been.After all,as most of you do,we already have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in or trailer and tow vehicle,which is depreciating daily.Camping is such a positive family activity,I don't think that anyone that gets into it can put a price tag on what you get out of it.The real crunch that the high fuel prices are and will be effecting is the everyday economy.The millions of people commuting to work and seeing more and more of their take home pay used up in fuel.For us my wife has a 65 km drive to work and then the same home,and with my work it can be anywhere,within reason.That is where it will really hit us.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:49 PM   #52
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Teamgl : Thanks and you are dead on.

Crusader,
My Tundra was built in Texas and the last time I checked, Toyota was not importing Japanese nationals to build it. It is 75% American parts. Our Venza is built in Kentucky and its components is 70% American. My boat is built in North Carolina by American workers and the Yammaha outboard is built in Kennesaw,Ga by more American workers. So I think I have done my part to support American jobs. Since you call into question my take on the economy and who I support, do you shop at Walmart?Did you shop there and buy chocolate for your sweety for Valentines Day or did you find a business like mine and pay a little extra for hand made treats? A great deal of chocolate packaged for sale at Walmart is made in Mexico. Are you for American jobs or only union jobs? Everybody wants union wages for work and are only willing to pay Walmart prices for stuff they buy. You wonder why the American economy is in a pinch there it is for you. I find it difficult listening to people from Michigan who have strangled their auto industry with ridciolous union contracts questioning my desire to buy quality American made Toyota's only then demand to be bailed out by the US tax payer to save their beloved GM or Chrysler. If this is you then you really have no room to talk.

I was born and raised in the south and here in the south we are right to work states. Here in the south we build Hondas, BMWs, Mercedes Benz, Subaru, VW and hopefully soon Boeing Airplanes. Here in the south we love the American dream of both the workers and the employers who pay them good wages. Here in the south we do not rely on massive bailouts to support our companies. The free market does a fine job on its own for providing good labor and product sales.

So with all due respect, and I mean all due respect like Ricky Bobby would say, I will never buy a GM or Chrysler product as long as I walk this earth simply because they sucked $50 billion tax payer dollars out of the treasury versus doing what should have been done which would have been to file for bankruptcy and reorganize their failing business model like the rest of us would have to do. The auto bailouts costs us money as tax payers and they were wrong in this tax payer's opinion. Those expensive superbowl ads by GM you can thank the tax payer for flipping the bill on those.

Crusader, I do not know you, we have never met and you are likely a nice guy. I try to be decent guy on these kind of message boards. Please know you questioned me and I responded. We just see the world from a different point of view and that is ok. I am convinced gasoline prices are single biggest factor either killing or slowing any kind of real economic recovery. There is only so much money folks have and the more it costs for their daily around the town trips the less they have for leisure simple as that.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:04 PM   #53
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Smokyroo You have a good take on the economy, being a business person like myself you can see the signs of what high gas prices does to the everyday buyer.I see the bailout in a different way.The Canadian government was forced to anti up as well for Chev and Chrysler,so being a tax payer I didn't want to see that money just thrown away and that is why I bought a Dodge truck.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #54
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Malco,
I am convinced GM in particular will fail. The problems that caused them to fail are still there. It is systemic their structure. We gave them a $39 billion band aid without requiring them to really clean their crap up. They made some changes but the news this week that GE colluded with the Whitehouse and GM to get 12,000 GE employees to buy the Volt so it would seem like there is real demand for the product is THE Poblem there. The market determines if the Volt will succeed or fail and because they colluded it showed before this came out that hey, look GM is really selling this stuff, but it was fake. I simply do not respect them at all. They represent everything wrong with crony capitalism and our economy today. I see your point...you want to get your money back as a tax payer. That Dodge truck is nice. I see we just flushed $39 billion down the tubes, so what is the point?

I rented a Chevy Malibu after our 4 runner was in accident. That car had Chinese tires on it and it was a dog and I am sorry if anybody here owns a 2010 Malibu, but it could not even come close to a Camry or Accord in terms of fit and finish, feel and response. Now when I decide to get a new truck, that F150 is a nice rig and I would consider it along with the Tundra.

The irony is our President is pushing fuel effeciency as the thing, but GM and Dodge money makers are not the Malibu or Volt, but their trucks and SUVs and in Dodge's case their muscle car, the Charger. So the SUV is demonized by the Administration yet it is what the consumer wants from GM? None of this makes any sense at all, especially dollars and cents. Do you like that Ram? I like Canadian oil, it taste good in my gas tanks...
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:33 PM   #55
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A lot of good points and discussion. And this is probably the 3rd or 4th or..... time around on this subject. It seems the politicians never learn anything from history. Our current "non-existent shortage" is caused by speculation. They are "speculatin" that Iran will be a big problem in the not to far future and they will gain by it. The U.S. is exporting millions of gallons of crude and refined fuels overseas instead because the oil companies can get more money for it. Period. A lot of our Alaskan oil goes to Japan. Let them get it from somebody else. If the politicians would have allowed drilling/exploration 20 or so years ago like we were trying to get approved we wouldn't be in this "shortage" situation now. We would have access to enough oil to supply us and still sell overseas for bigger profits. They keep saying we have a shortage of crude. The only thing that has affected is the price. I haven't seen any vehicles on the side of the road out of gas because it wasn't available. The airlines keep flying, the trains are running, they are still building huge cruise ships, etc. Shortage is a lot of crap. Money talks and bulls$#% walks. During WWII the government rationed goods. Maybe they need to ration how much oil can go overseas "after" the U.S. needs are met. Between Canada, the U.S., Central and South America there is enough oil reserves to easily keep the Americas running for years to come. It's funny how we have a shortage but the Saudis can "increase" production when necessary or they feel like it for their benefit. It's a complete load of crap. We haven't built a new refinery in this country in years and years. Well duh, that really is good long range planning. And I agree, we have been our own worst enemy letting the EPA run hog wild. And the government is not who you want trying to crate jobs. Turn the private sector loose, reduce some of these ridiculous restraints, put some money directly in to the infrastructure rebuilding and business itself can create the jobs. I'm almost to the point that I don't care who the Republican candidate is, I'm voting for him, her, it, whatever. This man is spending us into a complete disaster about 5 to 10 years from now. I'm done. Keep up the dialogue. It's important. Oh, and go camping.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:45 PM   #56
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I forgot one thing. Be sure and email, write or call your Congressman and Senator and tell them what's on your mind. And that we want cooperation and action. We're tired of all the back stabbing and non-action. They will only change their actions when they hear a LOUD voice, their constituents, giving them what for. If you're not speaking to them you can bet they can't hear you!
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #57
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Fuel Prices

I think some of you missed my point. I'm not about to give a dealer roughly $32,000. That included my present trailer, approximately $20,000 cash, roughly $1,800 state tax/licensing fees, new trailer hitch $ 600, almost a sure bet $600 to replace the cheap Chinese tires within a year, and finally, I know what is wrong with this trailer and it only needs less than $1,000 to make it 100% to us being completely happy with it. I'll be darned if I'm about to support so many people keep jobs on the money I have saved to travel. Economics is like charity, they begin at home.

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Old 02-25-2012, 05:13 PM   #58
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"I was born and raised in the south and here in the south we are right to work states. Here in the south we build Hondas, BMWs, Mercedes Benz, Subaru, VW and hopefully soon Boeing Airplanes. Here in the south we love the American dream of both the workers and the employers who pay them good wages. Here in the south we do not rely on massive bailouts to support our companies."
============================================
And why are all of those factories located in the south? You guessed it, fat state government subsidies. So much for that.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Bttravel View Post
I forgot one thing. Be sure and email, write or call your Congressman and Senator and tell them what's on your mind. And that we want cooperation and action. We're tired of all the back stabbing and non-action. They will only change their actions when they hear a LOUD voice, their constituents, giving them what for. If you're not speaking to them you can bet they can't hear you!
Ah, you can write, but do they listen.

TRUE STORY! This happen just this month to my daughter. One of our senators was sponsoring a bill that my daughter was adamantly opposed to. She wrote that senator a scathing letter expressing her displeasure with him and the bill he was sponsoring. A week later she received a letter from his office thanking her for her support of the bill. Yep, he thanked her for her support. This made my daughter furious and knowing her, she will use every available Internet resource to keep him from getting reelected.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:14 PM   #60
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And why are all of those factories located in the south? You guessed it, fat state government subsidies. So much for that.
Local tax incentives are not the same as the Federal bail out. In the case of the auto incentives in southern states, each state or jurisdiction paid for the 'incentive' with local tax dollars. Usually 'rebated' back to the the business.

The Federal bailout of the auto industry involved increasing the National Debt to support the auto giants GM and Chrysler. In addition, GM and Chrysler's corporate bonds and other indebtedness from these companies was expunged from their balance sheets - making their investments seem more viable.

It is a mistake to compare local tax incentives with the Federal bailout and Federal Government stepping over the courts to restructure the debts for GM and Chrysler.
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