Heat Pump for a house - savings?

[prof_fate]

Replacing our boiler this week wtih forced air (and a/c) and with it we get a heat pump.
I googled and googled some more and couldn't find anything on real world savings over conventional fuels.

Anyone (someplace coldish) move from a regular furnance (any fuel) to a heat pump system able to give me some idea on fuel savings?

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When we moved in 15 years ago we had an 80s era gas boiler that was very inefficient and then it broke, so we opted to install an electric boiler (back then gas prices had been going up and we got a lower rate on elec with elec heat).
today we spend less on elec/gas than we did before the new furnace,but it's never worked right and over the past 2 year it's been replaced completely, part by part, and the conclusion is the guys that installed it screwed up and the fix, which won't be 100%, is $3000. To be 100% we need a second boiler (to run 2 different temp zones, one is baseboard and one is radiators) and the radiators were plumbed for gravity feed, not force feed.

So we've opted to go gas forced air w/ heatpump in the main house (radiators there now) and an LG mini split in the addition(baseboards). Yes, we will be getting ductwork...know a guy and w/ my help it's only $10,000. Only.

the HP should save on the energy costs - the fce is 96% and A/C / HP is a 20 SEER.
Just trying to get some idea of how much I might save. Hoping for $100-150/month (annual avg), perhaps more moving from elec to gas as gas (per btu) is 20% cheaper (at the moment anyway).

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Replacing our boiler this week wtih forced air (and a/c) and with it we get a heat pump.
I googled and googled some more and couldn't find anything on real world savings over conventional fuels.

Anyone (someplace coldish) move from a regular furnance (any fuel) to a heat pump system able to give me some idea on fuel savings?

-----
When we moved in 15 years ago we had an 80s era gas boiler that was very inefficient and then it broke, so we opted to install an electric boiler (back then gas prices had been going up and we got a lower rate on elec with elec heat).
today we spend less on elec/gas than we did before the new furnace,but it's never worked right and over the past 2 year it's been replaced completely, part by part, and the conclusion is the guys that installed it screwed up and the fix, which won't be 100%, is $3000. To be 100% we need a second boiler (to run 2 different temp zones, one is baseboard and one is radiators) and the radiators were plumbed for gravity feed, not force feed.

So we've opted to go gas forced air w/ heatpump in the main house (radiators there now) and an LG mini split in the addition(baseboards). Yes, we will be getting ductwork...know a guy and w/ my help it's only $10,000. Only.

the HP should save on the energy costs - the fce is 96% and A/C / HP is a 20 SEER.
Just trying to get some idea of how much I might save. Hoping for $100-150/month (annual avg), perhaps more moving from elec to gas as gas (per btu) is 20% cheaper (at the moment anyway).

You will save with the 96% FAU, This has PVC flue and PVC intake right? The heat pump will help, If I understand you,your back up will be gas FAU and not heat strips correct? If that is the case you very well see those saving. I went to 16 seer H/P and kept my oil furnace. My oil consumption dropped by 2/3 per year. I went from burning 350 gals of oil to 75 gals a year. @ 3.69 per gal I have made my money back.....

[prof_fate]

Hard to know exaclty what I use for heat..I have the house a separate building that is my studio- it's got elec forced air and central air.
Taking the summer bill and winter bill and assmuming the hosue uses 80% of that I'm spending about 250/month on elec (12.8c kwh) as an avg. It's a guess of course as I have no idea what the studio uses or how much we use for a/c in the summer (2 window units in the house).

We don't set the boiler back, temp wise, very much as it takes hours to bring the house heat back up - the forced air furnace will change that. I can come into a 55F studio and have it at 70 in under 1/2 hour, for example.

Of course we'll use more energy for cooling - it's not been an option before.

As for the new furnace, yes it's plastic in/out and gas for 'backup' I guess you'll call it. No idea where the change over occurs. The LG unit can put out heat to below zero...it's got no backup heat (well, a portable unit in the addition of we need it). From what I read the effeciency benefits drop in the 20-25F range and by 0F you spend as much on elec as if you did have resistance heat. Which is what the boiler is now ( a 28,000w 80,000btu 'coffee pot' LOL). So gotta come out ahead in that room.

Gas here is $4.49/mcf (45c a therm give or take a few pennies).
Under 45-60ish temp ranges they say the HP will give you 10 times the heat (in btu) of burning fuel. At 25-45 it's more like 6 to 7x)

I dream of it being 2/3 better, but we'll see. The fun part for now is we're in the budget plan for the elec and not for gas...so we'll have to fight the utilities over that as you can't just drop out of the elec budget plan, and that's where most of the savings should come.

If we save 2/3..out of $250 that would be about $170.
We also sided our house this fall, so it srapped in foam (not much R value but seals well), window wrapped and caulked and vinyl siding so the wind won't whistle throught the place like in the past. Also gonna add insulation in the attic (over the ducts) so that will help some more.

[OldCoot]

Our tar paper shack is all electric, so we use a York AC/Heat Pump with electric heating strips and the year round charge is $195.92/mo which includes 2 electric ceiling heaters in the garage along with a 24,000 btu window ac.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Hard to know exaclty what I use for heat..I have the house a separate building that is my studio- it's got elec forced air and central air.
Taking the summer bill and winter bill and assmuming the hosue uses 80% of that I'm spending about 250/month on elec (12.8c kwh) as an avg. It's a guess of course as I have no idea what the studio uses or how much we use for a/c in the summer (2 window units in the house).

We don't set the boiler back, temp wise, very much as it takes hours to bring the house heat back up - the forced air furnace will change that. I can come into a 55F studio and have it at 70 in under 1/2 hour, for example.

Of course we'll use more energy for cooling - it's not been an option before.

As for the new furnace, yes it's plastic in/out and gas for 'backup' I guess you'll call it. No idea where the change over occurs. The LG unit can put out heat to below zero...it's got no backup heat (well, a portable unit in the addition of we need it). From what I read the effeciency benefits drop in the 20-25F range and by 0F you spend as much on elec as if you did have resistance heat. Which is what the boiler is now ( a 28,000w 80,000btu 'coffee pot' LOL). So gotta come out ahead in that room.

Gas here is $4.49/mcf (45c a therm give or take a few pennies).
Under 45-60ish temp ranges they say the HP will give you 10 times the heat (in btu) of burning fuel. At 25-45 it's more like 6 to 7x)

I dream of it being 2/3 better, but we'll see. The fun part for now is we're in the budget plan for the elec and not for gas...so we'll have to fight the utilities over that as you can't just drop out of the elec budget plan, and that's where most of the savings should come.

If we save 2/3..out of $250 that would be about $170.
We also sided our house this fall, so it srapped in foam (not much R value but seals well), window wrapped and caulked and vinyl siding so the wind won't whistle throught the place like in the past. Also gonna add insulation in the attic (over the ducts) so that will help some more.

You have done the correct thing, as far as the change over, you will PROBABLY get a stat with an outdoor sensor on it. You set that in the stat say you aren't getting enough heat from the H/P at 30 degrees, that is where I set mine, when the temp hits that degree it will switch to gas automaticly. You do nothing. Virginia climate is not as harsh as PA. You will have to find your medium for you. Some people say 40 but I found I still get plenty of heat at 31 degrees. You have bought an excellent system with such a high seer rating. Don't forget your government tax rebate for it. If you ever need any help just PM me, also my system is a trane and they have trane on the stat but it is a honeywell packaged for trane. You will see a savings. IMO it's the only way to go with a H/P. Very well done. Now you can save some dough and put it in your camper......

[prof_fate]

Apparently there is no govt tax credits/rebates at this time on the federal level, at all, and probably nothing from the state or utility, but my furnace guy is checking to be sure - there is something a thermostat but not sure if I qualify or not (and it's under $100 so it's not much help).
All the 'good' rebates ended in 2013.

[Witch Doctor]

Sorry pro_fate didn't know they were over, figures they would end it. They might still have the insulation going either Gov. or utility?