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Old 08-12-2011, 01:32 PM   #1
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Question Real Gas vs. Ethanol Gas Question

Do any members here burn 100% gasoline instead of the crappy 10% ethanol blend that the Feds and gas companies push on us ???

My daughter has been a big fan of pure gasoline for years. She said she gets better gas mileage with her vehicles. I broke down and paid the couple of extra pennies to put real gas in my truck a couple of days ago, and my Scan Gauge II is already showing a big improvement with mileage. And I still have approximately 2.5% ethanol in my tank, since I was at 1/4 tank when I filled with the pure gasoline.

My problem is that there are no pure gasoline stations in the Charlottesville area.

And now the EPA is raising the maximum mix to 15%, but there are some lawsuits holding up that ruling, since most pre 2007 vehicles are not made for that percentage......my truck included.

Here is a website that lists non-ethanol gasoline: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:09 PM   #2
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Great link, but when I checked they do not list one station in Houston or surrounding towns that sell pure gas, I will keep this in the glovebox for future road trips.

Is this anothr big oil conspiracy, charge us more and sell us less gas w/ 10-15% Ethanol!
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:21 PM   #3
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The U.S. government gives the oil companies $6 billion per year in subsidies to produce ethanol gasoline. I understand their reasoning behind that, but it just does not work. The idea that is reduces our reliance of foreign oil is a crock. If I use 10% ethanol gas, but it gives me 15% worse gas mileage, guess what.......I am burning more foreign oil when using a gasoline ethanol blend. Top that off with the extra gas used by the tractors to plant and harvest the corn, as well as the energy to convert corn to ethanol, and we are actually helping OPEC with sale their wares.

I understand helping our corn farmers, but the rise in corn prices has hurt other farmers who rely on corn feed for their livestock. The system is just not working.

On the positive side of this, there is a movement in congress to get rid of these silly subsidies.

I will now step off of my soapbox, and buy pure gasoline whenever possible.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:48 PM   #4
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Early on, when ethanol first came into play we were driving our Coachman gasser through Wyoming. I tracked my mileage between the ethanol gas and the non-ethanol gas. My mileage was 25% worse with the ethanol. Let's hope that Washington can get the idea that this whole ethanol scam is just plain dumb.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy View Post
The U.S. government gives the oil companies $6 billion per year in subsidies to produce ethanol gasoline.

On the positive side of this, there is a movement in congress to get rid of these silly subsidies.

I will now step off of my soapbox, and buy pure gasoline whenever possible.
Those silly subsidies will go away when Congress doesn't receive any re-election monies from those Oil Companies. Don't hold your breath. One crook's hand feeds the other crooks hand unfortunately.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy View Post
The U.S. government gives the oil companies $6 billion per year in subsidies to produce ethanol gasoline. I understand their reasoning behind that, but it just does not work. The idea that is reduces our reliance of foreign oil is a crock. If I use 10% ethanol gas, but it gives me 15% worse gas mileage, guess what.......I am burning more foreign oil when using a gasoline ethanol blend. Top that off with the extra gas used by the tractors to plant and harvest the corn, as well as the energy to convert corn to ethanol, and we are actually helping OPEC with sale their wares.

I understand helping our corn farmers, but the rise in corn prices has hurt other farmers who rely on corn feed for their livestock. The system is just not working.

On the positive side of this, there is a movement in congress to get rid of these silly subsidies.

I will now step off of my soapbox, and buy pure gasoline whenever possible.
Just to give you a little background before I reply to your email. I am from South Dakota. Have lived here my entire life. I do work for an ethanol company but took this job because I do believe in the use of ethanol and the process. I think it is hilarious when people bash a product that they know nothing about. Every form of energy in this country is subsidized. This in turn allows the government to really control the market for them. The company I work for has been proposing to get rid of the subsidy over a span of 5 years. During that time the cost would help build infrastructure such as pipeline, more blender pumps, more flex fuel vehicles, etc. This in turn would allow it to compete with oil. Every time we build a plant it brings life back to the rural areas and allows those people an opportunity to make a living.

1st - EPA has approved the use of E15 in all vehicles 2001 or newer. So yes your 2007 does run on it. Did you know that Henry Ford first car called the Quadrycylce was designed to run on pure ethanol along with his 1908 Model T?

2nd - The Oil Companies don't produce Ethanol. The subsidy is called a Blenders Credit, which typically does go to Big Oil since they are usually the blender.

3rd - If you compare the BTU in 100% gas (114,000) to E10 (111,836) it is a drop of just less than 2%. With that little decrease in BTU, yes you will see a small drop in MPG but no where near the 15% you claim. So if you work out the fact you are only loosing 2% mileage but replacing 10% of foreign oil, yes you are dropping your reliance on foreign oil.

4th - Everybody talks about the fact that you need these big tractors to plant the corn and the semis to haul it to the plant and the energy to convert it so it is not a green fuel. You must also assume that the gasoline you use just automatically makes it way from below the surface, then refines itself and then floats its way into your local gas stations tanks! Don't know why people think this is a valid arguement.

5th - Corn prices have stayed almost the same since the late 70's, with a few flucuations due to the market. Now during that time there is no way in H*LL that the cost to the farmer remained the same. With the cost of corn going up it has actually allowed the farmers to make money and has actually lowered the amount of subsidies for farmers.

6th - Why does nobody mention the subsidy that Big Oil gets. They get roughly $2-3 billion a year from the government even when they are pulling in multi-billion dollar profits per quarter. Does not sound smart but when they go in front of congress to justify it, the powers to be still feel it is a smart money move for the taxpayer.

7th - Let me know of an ethanol spill that has killed wildlife and will have an adverse affect on local economies for years to come. Seems as though everybody forgets about the major spills from tankers, rigs, etc.

Hope this clears up a few misconceptions.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:12 PM   #7
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Ethanol blends are a mistake and 15% is an even bigger mistake. It takes way to much water during production too. Anyway, politics aside, pure gasoline definitely get you better gas mileage; but not necessarily more power. Ethanol subsidies may get eliminated soon due to the fiscal crisis.

In MN, the pure gasoline pumps (few and far between) clearly state that it is only for small engines, antique cars, etc and not to be used in modern motory vehicles.

Moderators, if this is too political, I understand and you may delete.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:38 PM   #8
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Those tractors use diesel. Bio-diesel is the only true "green fuel". Ethanol is only good in a mason jar around a campfire! (is this too political or offensive?)
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acadianbob View Post
In MN, the pure gasoline pumps (few and far between) clearly state that it is only for small engines, antique cars, etc and not to be used in modern motory vehicles.
Interesting. Virginia pumps do not have that. The pumps are just listed as "No Ethanol".

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Moderators, if this is too political, I understand and you may delete.
This whole discussion was started by a moderator......me. If individual posts get out of line, then we can go from there. I am not above closing my own thread if need be, or if other moderators or the administrator sees fit....not a problem.

jrennrich, you give an interesting perspective with your comments. I will do a little research and hopefully have an educated response in a day or 2.

My intention with this thread was not to start a war, but see if others noticed a difference in mileage between regular gasoline and E10 (or E15) gasoline. My limited observation so far is not scientific by a long shot, and I may not be able to compare even over the long run, since it is not practical to drive 80 miles round trip to fill up with gasoline every time I fill my truck. But while doing regular errands in the area of a pure gasoline station, I do intend to take advantage of that when the opportunity presents itself.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:52 PM   #10
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I don't mean to start a war either.......just wanted to get a few facts out there. Corn ethanol might not be the final answer to energy independence but it is a start and without it I can only imagine what the cost of gas would be. Most people don't realize that without ethanol you have only 1 option. Big Oil realizes this and that is why they want ethanol out of the picture. You create a market tha revolves around 1 source and the end consumer is going to get a raw deal when it comes to cost.
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