Reported lost aircraft.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Narboza

I am beginning to think that the plane did not crash where they think it would have crashed. Much of ATC these days is via transponder, not as much via primary radar returns. On a loss of power, the transponder can be inop so the plane "disappears" when it is actually still flying. From 35,000 feet, it takes a relatively long time to get to the ground. AF447 stalled at altitude, but still took 4.5 minutes to hit the ocean many miles from the initial event. Without a stall, it should take longer. The search area would be huge. Some fisherman or other mariner will find light, floating debris somewhere unexpected if the plane crashed in the ocean.

Transponders can also be intentionally turned off. These modern transport aircraft have reserve battery backups so they don't just lose electrical power suddenly - they still have essential flight instruments powered plus communication ability.

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Ford Idaho

Info tags under the skin for all around?

Over my dead body.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Over my dead body.

And the chips will be delivered to your front door via a drone - you won't know it's coming until it gets there.

[Weezer]

And just what will keep the bad guys from killing you, removing your chip and inserting it into their own bodies?

I stand by my words; Over my dead body.

[Ford Idaho]

Originally Posted by B47

And the chips will be delivered to your front door via a drone - you won't know it's coming until it gets there.

Maybe!


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[Narboza]

Originally Posted by B47

Transponders can also be intentionally turned off. These modern transport aircraft have reserve battery backups so they don't just lose electrical power suddenly - they still have essential flight instruments powered plus communication ability.

Yes, so long as the power systems have not been rearranged by an explosion or other internal disruption. Or, as you say, they are turned off.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Narboza

Yes, so long as the power systems have not been rearranged by an explosion or other internal disruption. Or, as you say, they are turned off.

I don't know if 14 CfR 25, which is the FAA standard for the certification build standards for Transport Category Airplanes (which the 777 is) has been revisited to take intentional bomb explosions inflight in account.

I don't think any FAA standard or airplane manufacturer can ever build an airplane that can take a large explosion and keep flying.

There have been some bomb explosions on board where the crew has safely landed the airplane, the United 747 that had it's forward cargo door blown off inflight is one,but I think if the bomb is big enough the chances are small that the plane can be landed.

[RKR]

The oil slick does not belong to the plane. Now they say it looks like the plane might of turned around shortly before disappearing.
Evidently stolen passports being used is pretty common. That's nuts.

[MeepMeep]

At this point there are 3 (?) possibilities as I see it: ONE - the aircraft was completely vaporized at altitude or TWO - it didn't crash anywhere near the area that's being searched or THREE - it didn't crash at all and was hijacked to an unknown destination

I'm going to discount theory #1 as beyond probable, so there are two left.....

Many news agencies are reporting that it's quite common for people to travel on stolen passports. In this day and age, how is that possible and why is it being tolerated? Interpol tracks stolen passports in their database, so it's not like the info isn't out there

Glad all my travel is by ground transportation anymore....

[BigBaron]

Sad, what ever the cause. I thought of the inactive/disabled transponder, too, but where would they land?
A Japanese plane supposedly had verbal contact with the plane after it "disappeared."

Lou - What does "Herk" mean? Hercules?

[DDC]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned alien abduction, like flight 43 in the Bermuda triangle, it's just as plausible as all of the other speculation and if there is no wreckage found this would fit well. I only fly RC planes but of all the crashes I ever had the tail always survived.

[Talonman]

Originally Posted by dmac623

At this point there are 3 (?) possibilities as I see it: ONE - the aircraft was completely vaporized at altitude or TWO - it didn't crash anywhere near the area that's being searched or THREE - it didn't crash at all and was hijacked to an unknown destination

I'm going to discount theory #1 as beyond probable, so there are two left.....

Many news agencies are reporting that it's quite common for people to travel on stolen passports. In this day and age, how is that possible and why is it being tolerated? Interpol tracks stolen passports in their database, so it's not like the info isn't out there

Glad all my travel is by ground transportation anymore....

Isn't air travel still safer?

[MeepMeep]

Statistically, yes. Air travel is safer, but air travel depends on so many variables all having to be working together correctly exactly at the same time, that I feel much safer on the ground....that's from a retired aircraft maintenance chief, by the way

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Talonman

Isn't air travel still safer?

Lot of reasons surface travel is safer;

1. you can run out of gas and survive
2. you can run off the road and live
3. you can blow a tire and have much less damage...speed is less a factor as well, and the road you have to come to a stop is longer
4. gettin' a goose in your grill won't kill ya
5. no body cavity search required before embarking

I used to work in flight training and got to fly co-pilot-seat with a lot of corporate pilots on private jets, etc. I got so used to being "up front, knowing what's going on" 'til I detest flying commercial any more.

Learned one very valuable lesson very early on; Pilot went back to make me a drink. I'm more curious than any cat thought about being... so..."Jack what's this button do?" Jack takes a look and then... "(chuckle)Push it and see!" HOLY CRAP! It was the auto-pilot. Lesson learned: don't push buttons when you don't know what they do! Jack laughing his arse off as he came back to the deck didn't help much.

Very interesting pilot BTW. He could place an ink pen on the visor (dash board), float it straight down the aisle to the back of the plane, then float it back and land it right back on the visor.

You flyboys will know how that's done.

BTW, he was also the owner of the restored T-6 who took me up to do aerobatics.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Lot of reasons surface travel is safer;

1. you can run out of gas and survive
2. you can run off the road and live
3. you can blow a tire and have much less damage...speed is less a factor as well, and the road you have to come to a stop is longer
4. gettin' a goose in your grill won't kill ya
5. no body cavity search required before embarking

I used to work in flight training and got to fly co-pilot-seat with a lot of corporate pilots on private jets, etc. I got so used to being "up front, knowing what's going on" 'til I detest flying commercial any more.

Learned one very valuable lesson very early on; Pilot went back to make me a drink. I'm more curious than any cat thought about being... so..."Jack what's this button do?" Jack takes a look and then... "(chuckle)Push it and see!" HOLY CRAP! It was the auto-pilot. Lesson learned: don't push buttons when you don't know what they do! Jack laughing his arse off as he came back to the deck didn't help much.

Very interesting pilot BTW. He could place an ink pen on the visor (dash board), float it straight down the aisle to the back of the plane, then float it back and land it right back on the visor.

You flyboys will know how that's done.

BTW, he was also the owner of the restored T-6 who took me up to do aerobatics.

5. no body cavity search required before embarking

I'd prefer the subcutaneous Passport chip.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Lot of reasons surface travel is safer;

1. you can run out of gas and survive
2. you can run off the road and live
3. you can blow a tire and have much less damage...speed is less a factor as well, and the road you have to come to a stop is longer
4. gettin' a goose in your grill won't kill ya
5. no body cavity search required before embarking

I used to work in flight training and got to fly co-pilot-seat with a lot of corporate pilots on private jets, etc. I got so used to being "up front, knowing what's going on" 'til I detest flying commercial any more.

Learned one very valuable lesson very early on; Pilot went back to make me a drink. I'm more curious than any cat thought about being... so..."Jack what's this button do?" Jack takes a look and then... "(chuckle)Push it and see!" HOLY CRAP! It was the auto-pilot. Lesson learned: don't push buttons when you don't know what they do! Jack laughing his arse off as he came back to the deck didn't help much.

Very interesting pilot BTW. He could place an ink pen on the visor (dash board), float it straight down the aisle to the back of the plane, then float it back and land it right back on the visor.

You flyboys will know how that's done.

BTW, he was also the owner of the restored T-6 who took me up to do aerobatics.

Wish I didn't hear about your being on the Flight Deck "pushing buttons" while inflight for the following rules:

1. 14 CFR 91.5 - General Operating Rules. This rules applies to operating aircraft that requires two pilots. Not sure what type jet was involved here.

2. 14 CFR 125.313 - Certification and Operation having seating capacity of 20 or passengers.

3. 14 CFR 121.545 - Air Carrier Certification

4. 14 CFR 135.115 - Commuter Airlines.

I know not all of these rules apply to your operation,I'm guessing the 14 CFR 91.5 does if the jets require 2 pilots.

Now matter how good a pilot he is/was, this isn't a good idea.

Yes if you're flying in a small airplane,say a Cessna 172 in the right seat, the pilot can certainly let you handle the controls as it's probably a flight operating under 14 CRD 91 rules and the pilot isn't leaving the Flight Deck,but the other rules cited here don't allow it for obvious safety reasons.

Look them up if you don't believe me.

[Weezer]

The plane he was flying requires a minimum of ONE pilot.


I also said he checked to see which button I was talking about before he said push it and see.

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by mjones12

5. no body cavity search required before embarking

I'd prefer the subcutaneous Passport chip.

I prefer to stay chipless on terra firma. I was being snarky about the body cavity search. Those aren't required....yet.

There is still the issue of someone stealing your chip, now matter what they had to do to take it.

Evil has no limitations.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Weezer

The plane he was flying requires a minimum of ONE pilot.


I also said he checked to see which button I was talking about before he said push it and see.

Didn't know the jet required one pilot from reading your post - some smaller jets require two pilots.

I guess I need to bury this old FAA hat a little deeper - Naw who am I trying to kid.

[ryand]

A question for all you aviation guys...Is severe turbulence a legitimate cause of in flight accidents? Not to veer too far off the topic at hand but i have been on a few flights into Florida and after a what I would consider a very extreme episode of turbulence on one flight I had a conversation with the guy next to me who was a Southwest pilot. He mentioned that it was bad but essentially there have been only a few lost aircraft due to turbulence in flight history? Perhaps he was talking of commercial flight? He also explained commercial flights operate with a lower amount of of reserve fuel and will need to navigate into the storms to land. This he sated was common on flights into orlando and points in FL.

Just found it interesting.