Reported lost aircraft.

[jevanb]

Originally Posted by B47

The flight crew uses it to report aircraft discrepancies to the ground personnel while inflight.


If you can ever get over to the air carrier gates at your airport,maybe you can ask someone to show you an ACARS printout.

I have heard of AHRS,but I'm not familiar with it.

we use a sat phone to report issues in flight, and we have 0 air carriers gates on our airport (KPTK) unless you consider pentastar and their G`s and they have 1 gate and it is for the redwings or pistons aircraft when they board at their ramp. all of our planes with glass have this Attitude and heading reference system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[B47]

Originally Posted by jevanb

we use a sat phone to report issues in flight, and we have 0 air carriers gates on our airport (KPTK) unless you consider pentastar and their G`s and they have 1 gate and it is for the redwings or pistons aircraft when they board at their ramp. all of our planes with glass have this Attitude and heading reference system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry - I thought you were at DTW,not Pontiac.

I wouldn't be surprised if those G's didn't have some version of ACARS on them.

What I said about my experience with ACARS is very limited compared to what it is today. I don't think ACARS was used for engine condition reporting on the 727's like it is on today's aircraft. I'm learning more about ACARS and all its uses from the Malaysian incident than I knew before.

[jevanb]

I would think aircraft with ACARS would be FADAC equipped, not the old hydromechanical fuel control like on the 72`s

[B47]

Originally Posted by jevanb

I would think aircraft with ACARS would be FADAC equipped, not the old hydromechanical fuel control like on the 72`s

Ah Yes - the old JT 8 HM fuel control; I changed more than my share of them and still have the fuel stained arms to prove it.

I believe the later aircraft do have the FADAC. I know the carrier that I was the Principal Maintenance Inspector on that were getting the new (at the time) EMB's had the Full Authority Digital Engine Control ( I believe that was the name',but it could have been FADAC) and there were some AD's issued against them.

[B47]

Malaysia is now reporting that MH Flight 370 crashed into the Southern Indian Ocean. This is based upon satellite data.

God Bless.

[B47]

Now the "experts" are speculating that either the Captain or First Officer or both might have committed "suicide by airplane" in the Malaysian incident. But the question keeps coming up asking if that's true,why wouldn't the person crash the airplane shortly after takeoff or why wait so long after takeoff to do it?

My opinion is that a person intend on committing suicide isn't very rational - in other words perhaps the Captain and/or First Officer spent some time airborne thinking about it or trying to convince himself to do it.

[MeepMeep]

Originally Posted by B47

Now the "experts" are speculating that either the Captain or First Officer or both might have committed "suicide by airplane" in the Malaysian incident. But the question keeps coming up asking if that's true,why wouldn't the person crash the airplane shortly after takeoff or why wait so long after takeoff to do it?

My opinion is that a person intend on committing suicide isn't very rational - in other words perhaps the Captain and/or First Officer spent some time airborne thinking about it or trying to convince himself to do it.

While I completely agree that a person intent on committing suicide probably isn't very rational - but what, I might ask, were the other 238 souls on board doing while the captain and /or the first officer were "thinking about it" ????

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by dmac623

While I completely agree that a person intent on committing suicide probably isn't very rational - but what, I might ask, were the other 238 souls on board doing while the captain and /or the first officer were "thinking about it" ????

As a former Frequent Flyer with well over a million miles, I can tell you the other 238 souls had no idea what was going on and couldn't have done anything regardless if they had of known. They cannot/could not access the flight deck.

[Ford Idaho]

If one or both wanted to suicide out why bother to disable the things (transponder) that have been reported not working when it disappeared?

[Kaadk]

Based on the latest news regarding possible debris found by satellites, it seems more likely the plane just flew until it ran out of fuel. Post #124 of this thread so far still seems the most likely cause.

[B47]

Originally Posted by dmac623

While I completely agree that a person intent on committing suicide probably isn't very rational - but what, I might ask, were the other 238 souls on board doing while the captain and /or the first officer were "thinking about it" ????

If the aircraft was equipped with the latest cockpit door ( like the U.S. Carriers are),unless the flight crew let someone in or some somewhat flight knowledgeable passenger breached the door, the passengers were helpless ( like all the paxs were on the 9/11 flights).

[B47]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

As a former Frequent Flyer with well over a million miles, I can tell you the other 238 souls had no idea what was going on and couldn't have done anything regardless if they had of known. They cannot/could not access the flight deck.

x2 - I have heard the reinforced cockpit door is openable by an unauthorized person, I doubt it.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Ford Idaho

If one or both wanted to suicide out why bother to disable the things (transponder) that have been reported not working when it disappeared?

I'm speculating here,but if the flight crew did want to commit suicide,turning off the transponder would let them "hide" from radar trackage which is pretty sparse in that part of the world. Also perhaps the flight crew wanted to crash the plane in very deep water so as to make recovery vey difficult.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by B47

I'm speculating here,but if the flight crew did want to commit suicide,turning off the transponder would let them "hide" from radar trackage which is pretty sparse in that part of the world. Also perhaps the flight crew wanted to crash the plane in very deep water so as to make recovery vey difficult.

I'm still not buying the whole suicide angle. Either both pilot and co-pilot would have to agree, or one would need to incapacitate the other. Otherwise the non-suicidal one's not going to just let the suicidal one kill everyone.

No, more likely it was either:

a) Something happened to the entire plane where they couldn't disengage the auto pilot. Plane flew until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
b) Somebody did something to the entire plane, purposely set the autopilot so the plane would be difficult to find and then bailed from the plane. Plane flew until it ran out of fuel and crashed. Bailee has had 3 weeks so far to get away with whatever it was they did.

They claim the plane flew for 7 hours. Over that time the adrenaline that masked the fear of death would wear off, the suicidal person would have remorse and most like not wait for the plane to run out of fuel and crash. So I'm really not buying that angle.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

I'm still not buying the whole suicide angle. Either both pilot and co-pilot would have to agree, or one would need to incapacitate the other. Otherwise the non-suicidal one's not going to just let the suicidal one kill everyone.

No, more likely it was either:

a) Something happened to the entire plane where they couldn't disengage the auto pilot. Plane flew until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
b) Somebody did something to the entire plane, purposely set the autopilot so the plane would be difficult to find and then bailed from the plane. Plane flew until it ran out of fuel and crashed. Bailee has had 3 weeks so far to get away with whatever it was they did.

They claim the plane flew for 7 hours. Over that time the adrenaline that masked the fear of death would wear off, the suicidal person would have remorse and most like not wait for the plane to run out of fuel and crash. So I'm really not buying that angle.

a) - the Pilot In Command (PIC) always has the authority and means to over- ride or disable any system on a modern Transport Category aircraft such as the 777. So I don't think that's a possibility here IMO.

b) - would anyone bail out over an ocean? The only reported incident of anyone bailing out of a civilian airplane was D.B. Cooper and he bailed out of the rear exit of a 727. The 777 doesn't have a rear exit - only doors located in both sides of the fuselage. Some doors are forward of the leading edge of both wings and other doors are forward of the leading edge of both horizontal stabilizers. A person would be struck by either the wings or stabilizers leading edge.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by B47

a) - the Pilot In Command (PIC) always has the authority and means to over- ride or disable any system on a modern Transport Category aircraft such as the 777. So I don't think that's a possibility here IMO.

b) - would anyone bail out over an ocean? The only reported incident of anyone bailing out of a civilian airplane was D.B. Cooper and he bailed out of the rear exit of a 727. The 777 doesn't have a rear exit - only doors located in both sides of the fuselage. Some doors are forward of the leading edge of both wings and other doors are forward of the leading edge of both horizontal stabilizers. A person would be struck by either the wings or stabilizers leading edge.

Well, the pilot would have to be conscious (and alive) to override it. That's what I mean by 'something happened' Either he wasn't alive, or he wasn't conscious.

I agree on the bail out and consider it unlikely, but still more probable than a 7 hour suicide with nobody stopping them, just threw it out there as a possibility. My own speculation is that everyone on board was either dead or incapacitated already shortly after the turn and the rest of the flight was as a ghost ship.

[jevanb]

Originally Posted by B47

The only reported incident of anyone bailing out of a civilian airplane was D.B. Cooper and he bailed out of the rear exit of a 727.

they fixed that problem on passenger and some cargo 72`s, their is a flap thingy on the skin that covers the door when it is flying, it no longer can be opened in flight with that installed, it was a mod because of DB cooper

[MeepMeep]

Life was so much simpler then....



"Two turnin', two burnin' "

[jevanb]

Originally Posted by dmac623

Life was so much simpler then....

Attachment 48673

"Two turnin', two burnin' "

but where are the passengers going to sit??

[B47]

Originally Posted by jevanb

they fixed that problem on passenger and some cargo 72`s, their is a flap thingy on the skin that covers the door when it is flying, it no longer can be opened in flight with that installed, it was a mod because of DB cooper

Yep - the FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive (AD) for it. Just a simple piece of metal hinged to the fuselage skin that the airstream pushed into position against the left side of the door so it couldn't open in flight. It went into it's stowed (neutral) position when the airplane was on the ground so the door could be opened. A purely mechanical device.

I don't recall if it even have a cockpit indication light - I think it just worked on it own and couldn't be over ridden.

I don't think the AD was issued against the DC-9/MD-80 airplanes.