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Old 01-30-2014, 04:58 PM   #11
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That one Russian fighter has a speed brake that looks very very similar to the one on the F15. - just saying

Do you know if they still hold the Red Flag exercises at Nellis? I was in one in either 1977 or 1978 with our F105 outfit from Carswell AFB.
Last I knew it was still an annual event unless our beloved leaders in congress decided it was too expensive. Thud was an impressive bird. Many said it was triple threat! Strafe ya, bomb ya or fall on ya
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:02 PM   #12
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Last I knew it was still an annual event unless our beloved leaders in congress decided it was too expensive. Thud was an impressive bird. Many said it was triple threat! Strafe ya, bomb ya or fall on ya
Yep - it did all those things. That's why it was called the "Thud"
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:06 PM   #13
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ACK! Butterflies as big as buzzards watching that!

Rolled back memories of a time years ago when I had the "privilege" of riding in a restored T6. It was owned by a corporate pilot I worked with...4 point rolls , barrel rolls and hammerheads!

I was screaming my head off while he laughed his arse off. Oh the crazy things we do when we're young.
i also was able to fly a restored 1942 AT-6 and we did the same maneuvers.
i got to do the barrel rolls and the pilot did the inside loops, hammer stalls and 4-pointers. absolutely loved that plane.
also done the same in a Stearman bi-plane. nothing like an open cockpit for doing those kind of maneuvers. easily the most fun i've had in a plane.

i'll be 60 this year and would do it again without hesitation. my dream is a flight in a Pitts aerobatic bi-plane.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:29 PM   #14
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Don't know about Nellis, but Eielson AFB in Alaska hosts three red flag exercises a year. the "agressor" f16 squadron are the only fighters left there, for now.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:27 PM   #15
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I've seen this done with RC planes but never with real ones.

LiveLeak.com - Russian UFO Jet Fighters 2014

The two planes for the first few minutes of the video are radio controlled models, the second one shown is a real SU-30.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:50 PM   #16
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...The F-22 is nowhere near that maneuverable, but its as stealthy as the F-117, and can super-cruise. The first idea that an enemy pilot will have that he was shot at was when his wingman blows up.
Tim
And the F35 puts the F22 to shame.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:01 PM   #17
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And the F35 puts the F22 to shame.
In some ways yes, in other ways no.

Avionics wise, Displays, EW systems, situational awareness, etc etc the F-35 is in a class by itself.
Seat of the pants flying, maneuvering, speed and handling etc etc, F-22 is the winner.

Both great airplanes, their missions are different tho, almost an apples to oranges comparison in all reality.

I work on the F-35 every day, I could tell you more but I would have to kill myself...
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:58 PM   #18
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in the late 80's, I went to a military air show and watched a pair of Migs do similar feats. The pilot walked one down the runway, nose up, at about 50' up. When he got to the end of the runway, he shot straight up. At the time, there wasn't anything like it in our Air Force.
If I'm reading your description correctly, then I would disagree that we didn't have anything like it in the Air Force (unless you really meant Air Force, and not "Armed Forces") in the late 1980's. I was an Aviation Electrician in the Navy at the Naval Missile Center at NAS Pt. Mugu in the early 1970's. The F-14A Tomcat was being wrung out by Grumman. (Armed guards around the hanger, etc. Not yet released to the fleet.) The first "Six on six" (tracking and shooting down 6 targets by one plane at once) in history was performed while I was there. At our air show, Space Fair '73 (might have been '74), they brought the swing-wing F-14 down the runway at about 25-35 mph ground speed, essentially standing on its tail (maybe 10-15 degrees from vertical). maybe 50-75 ft above the runway. At the end of the runway, he cut in the afterburners and went straight up, and you could see the wings swing back in as he went up. Sounds like "walking down the runway and going straight up" to me. Again, that was 1973 or 1974.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:35 AM   #19
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If I'm reading your description correctly, then I would disagree that we didn't have anything like it in the Air Force (unless you really meant Air Force, and not "Armed Forces") in the late 1980's. I was an Aviation Electrician in the Navy at the Naval Missile Center at NAS Pt. Mugu in the early 1970's. The F-14A Tomcat was being wrung out by Grumman. (Armed guards around the hanger, etc. Not yet released to the fleet.) The first "Six on six" (tracking and shooting down 6 targets by one plane at once) in history was performed while I was there. At our air show, Space Fair '73 (might have been '74), they brought the swing-wing F-14 down the runway at about 25-35 mph ground speed, essentially standing on its tail (maybe 10-15 degrees from vertical). maybe 50-75 ft above the runway. At the end of the runway, he cut in the afterburners and went straight up, and you could see the wings swing back in as he went up. Sounds like "walking down the runway and going straight up" to me. Again, that was 1973 or 1974.

Exactly like what I saw at that air show. From what i can remember, it was billed as a first. After he migs would shoot straight up, they would hold a nose up attitude and basically sit stationary at about 10,000 feet for a few seconds. It was impressive. I never saw our guys doing anything like it. Of course it was an air show, so the pilots might have been "showing off" a bit

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Old 01-31-2014, 07:11 PM   #20
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they would hold a nose up attitude and basically sit stationary at about 10,000 feet for a few seconds.
I don't know if the F-14 could do this. It might, but it was still "experimental" in those days, so I'm guessing that if it could, they didn't want to risk it at an air show. In theory, if you've got the thrust to go straight up, (thrust/weight ratio >1) you should be able to sit on your tail, but the question is how to maintain stability for the few seconds you're sitting there. These newer jets have vector-able engine nozzles and computerized controls that do this. I don't recall if the F-14 had those or not. I suspect not, as that was 40 years ago.
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