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-   -   Pull Surveyor 33KRLOK with Toyota Tundra? (http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f35/pull-surveyor-33krlok-with-toyota-tundra-178283.html)

halp 02-05-2019 11:57 PM

Pull Surveyor 33KRLOK with Toyota Tundra?
 
Thinking of getting a Surveyor 33KRLOK and pulling with a 2018 Toyota Tundra.
Pulling capacity is 10,000 lbs and cargo capacity is 1660 with tongue max at 1000 lbs. I figure after passengers, cargo, and equalizer hitch, I have about 1000 tongue weight available. Am I crazy? :trink39:

clarkbre 02-06-2019 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halp (Post 2019373)
...... Am I crazy? :trink39:

As the Magic 8 Ball would say:

- It is certain.
- It is decidedly so.
- Without a doubt.
- Yes - definitely.
- You may rely on it.
- As I see it, yes.
- Most likely.
- Outlook good.
- Yes.
- Signs point to yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halp (Post 2019373)
Thinking of getting a Surveyor 33KRLOK and pulling with a 2018 Toyota Tundra.
Pulling capacity is 10,000 lbs and cargo capacity is 1660 with tongue max at 1000 lbs..........

If these are all specs for your truck,the 10k pulling is basically a unicorn scenario that includes the truck, full tank of fuel and a 150lbs driver....and that's all. Nothing in the bed, no passengers, not even a Big Gulp in the cup holder.

The 1660 payload is low to medium for a 1/2 ton truck. This is the number that will be exceeded before all others. It's the easiest to go over and often times the one number that's most often overlooked.

Does the hitch have a maximum tongue weight of 1000? If so, you will easily exceed that with that trailer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halp (Post 2019373)
.......I figure after passengers, cargo, and equalizer hitch, I have about 1000 tongue weight available.....

Until you hit the truck scale with a full tank of fuel, your typical driver and passenger(s) (including the family hound) you really don't know. Any additions to your truck like floor mats, running boards, tonneau covers, etc. will take away from that cargo carrying capacity. Your trucks GVWR-Scale weight = Usable cargo capacity.

The trailer has a listed tongue weight of 765. Add 2 propane tanks, batteries and some gear in the front pass through and that is more likely 1000 right there. This doesn't include any additional weight of water in the fresh tank and other things. And, the hitch will add 100 pounds. For a safety factor, take the GVW of the trailer 7614 UVW + 1951 CCC = 9565 GVW

13% of GVW to figure actual tongue weight = 1243

The MAJOR concern for all of this potential combination would be the small size of the truck compared to the trailer's 37' total length. My advice would be if you move forward with your purchase, buy excellent vehicle and life insurance....I'm not joking. The trailer you're looking at is really no less then 3/4 ton territory and I'd be concerned even towing it with that.

I'm not writing all this to be a jerk and discourage you; however, I do know what it's like to haul a 30' (total) trailer with an F150 and it was maxed out and sketchy at times.

For your family's safety and others on the road, please look for a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.

And, your salesman saying that trailer is "1/2 ton towable" is a F#@%ing tool and shouldn't even be allowed to sell paperclips....He's clearly after a commission at whatever cost it may come to you and your safety.

DO SPEND TIME ON THE TOWING SECTION OF THIS FORUM TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF. There are a lot of helpful people providing good information to help you make an educated and wise purchase.

mawilson 02-10-2019 10:04 AM

I'm with clarkbre on this: spend some quality time in the towing section of the forum. You'll learn a lot of valuable and important stuff. I did that before I got my (first) TT and it was highly educational.

Even though you can't take the trailer, you might still want to take your TV loaded like you might be taking the trailer on a trip. Then use the max gross weight of the trailer to estimate loading with 15% of the weight on the tongue as the trailer weight. You aren't likely to actually max trailer loading but, barring actual scale data, it's much better to err on the conservative end.

Off the top, you need to look at all the numbers for your TV: GAWR for front and back, GVWR, curb weight, actual payload, combined carry capacity (from the yellow sicker, not a book), tire load rating, and max tongue from the stick on the hitch. I don't have all the numbers but, from what's here, that trailer is likely too much for your truck.

Again, go bury yourself in the towing section and work out the numbers for yourself. You have to be in the rig. I don't. Satisfy yourself based on the best data you can get. Don't let the salesman, OR ANYONE ELSE, convince you to do something you aren't comfortable risking your life with.

Mr Towed 02-10-2019 10:46 AM

I agree with others, find out the TRUE numbers for your truck. I think you'll find something in the 24 to 28 foot TOPS are appropriate for that truck.

In my opinion 10,000 sounds like a suspiciously round number for the towing capacity.

Chuck_S 02-10-2019 11:38 AM

I use the One Ton Rule for towing which insists the tow vehicle have at least 2000 pounds maximum towing capacity more than the trailer's maximum allowable weight. This allows for loads in the vehicle, high summer temperatures, long steep grades, and high altitudes.

9565 + 2000 = 11,565 pounds minimum. This is F350 Super Duty country.

-- Chuck

Coolharts 02-10-2019 01:55 PM

As a 33RETS owner I can say that a Tundra is not enough truck. My Excursion Diesel is maxed with the my camper because I feel any bigger will be too much and I agree, the next step is an F-350- F-450.

mawilson 02-11-2019 08:42 AM

Sorry for almost hijacking the thread but,

Chuck, Are you serious? The rated capacity for F250 is between 12,300 and 15,000, depending on configuration, for a gasser. It's between 12,500 and 18,000 for a diesel, again depending on configuration. A properly equipped F150 - Supercrew 4x2, 6.5' bed, 3.5L Ecoboost, 3.55 rear end, 20" tires and wheels, max tow and WDH - is rated at 13,200. F350 or F450 is overkill for a ~9600 lb. trailer even with 2000 lbs. of overhead.

PS: F250 and F350 have the same range of towing capacity. The F350 costs ~$1100 more new.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....

clarkbre 02-11-2019 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mawilson (Post 2022727)
Sorry for almost hijacking the thread but,

Chuck, Are you serious? The rated capacity for F250 is between 12,300 and 15,000, depending on configuration, for a gasser. It's between 12,500 and 18,000 for a diesel, again depending on configuration. A properly equipped F150 - Supercrew 4x2, 6.5' bed, 3.5L Ecoboost, 3.55 rear end, 20" tires and wheels, max tow and WDH - is rated at 13,200. F350 or F450 is overkill for a ~9600 lb. trailer even with 2000 lbs. of overhead.

PS: F250 and F350 have the same range of towing capacity. The F350 costs ~$1100 more new.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....

I dont know that a well equipped F150 rated for 13k+ towing makes any more sense than Chuck's "One Ton Rule".

If you're towing that kind of weight with an F150, buy a bigger truck.

And, if all you need is 2000 lbs more towing capacity than the trailer discussed in this thread, buy a 3/4 ton. (My F250 is rated to tow a measly 12,200 [emoji2] )

In both cases, proper payload, stopping ability and vehicle wheelbase should all be considered in matching the tow vehicle to the trailer.

Having towed the trailer in my signature with a 145" wheelbase F150 for 4k miles, the F250 with a 156" wheelbase, 1200 lbs more payload and heavier duty chassis and brakes was a welcome upgrade.

Ejs4029 02-11-2019 12:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkbre (Post 2019384)
As the Magic 8 Ball would say:

- It is certain.
- It is decidedly so.
- Without a doubt.
- Yes - definitely.
- You may rely on it.
- As I see it, yes.
- Most likely.
- Outlook good.
- Yes.
- Signs point to yes.



If these are all specs for your truck,the 10k pulling is basically a unicorn scenario that includes the truck, full tank of fuel and a 150lbs driver....and that's all. Nothing in the bed, no passengers, not even a Big Gulp in the cup holder.

The 1660 payload is low to medium for a 1/2 ton truck. This is the number that will be exceeded before all others. It's the easiest to go over and often times the one number that's most often overlooked.

Does the hitch have a maximum tongue weight of 1000? If so, you will easily exceed that with that trailer.



Until you hit the truck scale with a full tank of fuel, your typical driver and passenger(s) (including the family hound) you really don't know. Any additions to your truck like floor mats, running boards, tonneau covers, etc. will take away from that cargo carrying capacity. Your trucks GVWR-Scale weight = Usable cargo capacity.

The trailer has a listed tongue weight of 765. Add 2 propane tanks, batteries and some gear in the front pass through and that is more likely 1000 right there. This doesn't include any additional weight of water in the fresh tank and other things. And, the hitch will add 100 pounds. For a safety factor, take the GVW of the trailer 7614 UVW + 1951 CCC = 9565 GVW

13% of GVW to figure actual tongue weight = 1243

The MAJOR concern for all of this potential combination would be the small size of the truck compared to the trailer's 37' total length. My advice would be if you move forward with your purchase, buy excellent vehicle and life insurance....I'm not joking. The trailer you're looking at is really no less then 3/4 ton territory and I'd be concerned even towing it with that.

I'm not writing all this to be a jerk and discourage you; however, I do know what it's like to haul a 30' (total) trailer with an F150 and it was maxed out and sketchy at times.

For your family's safety and others on the road, please look for a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.

And, your salesman saying that trailer is "1/2 ton towable" is a F#@%ing tool and shouldn't even be allowed to sell paperclips....He's clearly after a commission at whatever cost it may come to you and your safety.

DO SPEND TIME ON THE TOWING SECTION OF THIS FORUM TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF. There are a lot of helpful people providing good information to help you make an educated and wise purchase.


Just curious what is the concern towing this trailer with a 3/4 ton truck ?

Salesman are just echoing what Forest River says about their product being half ton towable.

Case in point check out this Wildcat on the FR site...Really this is half ton towable ? This makes the OP trailer question laughable.

itat 02-11-2019 12:44 PM

halp, you have another thread where you're asking about towing a Surveyor 266RLDS. Are you still thinking about this 33KRLOK or have you moved on to the lighter TT?

CurtPutnam 02-11-2019 01:03 PM

FWIW

TT GVW ~ 9565 lbs
Max Tongue Weight ~ 9565 * 0.15 = 1435
+ WDH ~ 1535
Remaining CCC ~ 1660 - 1535 = 125

My Sonoma 280RKS is smaller than your proposed TT and it put my '14 Tundra severely overweight. For your Tundra and the TT, putting a driver in the truck puts it overweight. At the very least, without air bags, your rear end will be squatting badly, headlights pointing up, and generally attracting negative attention. 3/4 of a ton sitting in your receiver probably exceeds its capacity. You'll also have to compare the TT load of 1565 + family + gear to the axle and tire load ratings

Conclusion: Please do NOT do this.

clarkbre 02-11-2019 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejs4029 (Post 2022901)
Just curious what is the concern towing this trailer with a 3/4 ton truck ?

To understand where I'm coming from, please understand that I generally am cautious and a strict rule follower. With this, I work in the risk management field and always looking at worst case scenarios. I typically "over-engineer" to avoid a potential accident.

My concerns would be the following:

1. Exceeding payload. A 3/4 ton could easily run out of payload if it was equipped with a diesel engine. While it may have a huge towing capacity, it runs out of payload fast. The truck in my signature has a payload of 2766. The same configuration in a diesel would have a payload closer to 1900-2000 lbs. With a potential tongue weight of 1243, hitch of 100, that leaves only 657 (out of a 2000 payload) for people (Me, wife, kids 8 and 5 weigh 470 alone), added accessories, and cargo in the bed. It's cutting it too close for my comfort.

2. Handling & control. While a 3/4 ton may take the tongue weight of the proposed trailer, the overall length of the trailer is concerning. 37' is a Biga$$ bumper pull. The stiffer rear springs of a SRW 1 ton will likely handle the tongue weight and potential sway of that trailer better than a 3/4 ton.

3. 3/4 or 1 ton wheelbase. At the very least, for a 37' trailer, I would want a crewcab with a longbed to have the longest wheelbased tow vehicle possible. I don't like the idea of the tail wagging the dog.

When we were shopping for trailers, my wife was set on a 28 bunkhouse that was nearly 33' long. Put behind my F150, it dwarfed it. So, we limited ourselves to a 24' and it looked and felt more proportionate. Now, with the F250 having a longer wheelbase and stiffer springs, it handles our current 24' trailer great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejs4029 (Post 2022901)
.....Salesman are just echoing what Forest River says about their product being half ton towable.

Case in point check out this Wildcat on the FR site...Really this is half ton towable ? This makes the OP trailer question laughable.

You are correct. Both FR and truck salesmen just regurgitate the information sent to them in brochures by the manufacture. As a constant, they fail to read the fine print and realize that in order to be able to actually use a 1/2 ton it would likely have to be a base model, standard cab, longbed, 4x2 that provides maximum payload but isn't practical.

The industry (truck and trailer both) as a whole really needs to get in check with each other's products in order to produce good information for the consumers.

Ejs4029 02-11-2019 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkbre (Post 2022916)
To understand where I'm coming from, please understand that I generally am cautious and a strict rule follower. With this, I work in the risk management field and always looking at worst case scenarios. I typically "over-engineer" to avoid a potential accident.

My concerns would be the following:

1. Exceeding payload. A 3/4 ton could easily run out of payload if it was equipped with a diesel engine. While it may have a huge towing capacity, it runs out of payload fast. The truck in my signature has a payload of 2766. The same configuration in a diesel would have a payload closer to 1900-2000 lbs. With a potential tongue weight of 1243, hitch of 100, that leaves only 657 (out of a 2000 payload) for people (Me, wife, kids 8 and 5 weigh 470 alone), added accessories, and cargo in the bed. It's cutting it too close for my comfort.

2. Handling & control. While a 3/4 ton may take the tongue weight of the proposed trailer, the overall length of the trailer is concerning. 37' is a Biga$$ bumper pull. The stiffer rear springs of a SRW 1 ton will likely handle the tongue weight and potential sway of that trailer better than a 3/4 ton.

3. 3/4 or 1 ton wheelbase. At the very least, for a 37' trailer, I would want a crewcab with a longbed to have the longest wheelbased tow vehicle possible. I don't like the idea of the tail wagging the dog.

When we were shopping for trailers, my wife was set on a 28 bunkhouse that was nearly 33' long. Put behind my F150, it dwarfed it. So, we limited ourselves to a 24' and it looked and felt more proportionate. Now, with the F250 having a longer wheelbase and stiffer springs, it handles our current 24' trailer great.



You are correct. Both FR and truck salesmen just regurgitate the information sent to them in brochures by the manufacture. As a constant, they fail to read the fine print and realize that in order to be able to actually use a 1/2 ton it would likely have to be a base model, standard cab, longbed, 4x2 that provides maximum payload but isn't practical.

The industry (truck and trailer both) as a whole really needs to get in check with each other's products in order to produce good information for the consumers.


10-4 all good points to consider :).....So with that being said would you be comfortable towing the subject trailer with your truck ? Or would you want to go the 1 ton route ?

clarkbre 02-11-2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejs4029 (Post 2022940)
10-4 all good points to consider :).....So with that being said would you be comfortable towing the subject trailer with your truck ? Or would you want to go the 1 ton route ?

Powerwise, yes. My truck could pull it.

Payload wouldn't be a problem.

BUT

For the 37' length of trailer and the ability to handle that length of trailer, I would want a long wheelbase (172" as opposed to the 156") and likely the stiffer rear suspension of the 1 ton.

Again, I'd rather be safe than sorry. You'd have to have a pretty specific 3/4 ton for me to be comfortable.

Would you tow it with your 2015 Ram 2500 CTD,CC,SB,4x4 and why?

Remember, that hitch brings us together :D

Ejs4029 02-11-2019 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkbre (Post 2022952)
Powerwise, yes. My truck could pull it.

Payload wouldn't be a problem.

BUT

For the 37' length of trailer and the ability to handle that length of trailer, I would want a long wheelbase (172" as opposed to the 156") and likely the stiffer rear suspension of the 1 ton.

Again, I'd rather be safe than sorry. You'd have to have a pretty specific 3/4 ton for me to be comfortable.

Would you tow it with your 2015 Ram 2500 CTD,CC,SB,4x4 and why?

Remember, that hitch brings us together :D


Personally yeah I would do it no questions asked....I'd be under my payload of 2257 lbs (It's only my DW and myself and two pomeranians so about 350lbs plus what I carry in the bed that varies between 100-300lbs so under 650lbs max...This is from my various CAT scale visits :)

I'm towing 33ft now at 8K loaded and my trailer pulls like a dream.....Powerwise the Cummins isn't even going to break a sweat with 10k behind it and I would probably still get around 11-13 MPG towing doing so :D

My Husky Centerline is the 1000-1400lb model so I'd be good to go there :)

clarkbre 02-11-2019 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejs4029 (Post 2022989)
Personally yeah I would do it no questions asked....I'd be under my payload of 2257 lbs (It's only my DW and myself and two pomeranians so about 350lbs plus what I carry in the bed that varies between 100-300lbs so under 650lbs max...This is from my various CAT scale visits :)

I'm towing 33ft now at 8K loaded and my trailer pulls like a dream.....Powerwise the Cummins isn't even going to break a sweat with 10k behind it and I would probably still get around 11-13 MPG towing doing so :D

My Husky Centerline is the 1000-1400lb model so I'd be good to go there :)

Right on! I do have to say you're an odd diesel guy to know (and care) about his payload figures. [emoji2] Seems most see the type of fuel they use as a free pass on every other factor! [emoji6]

Have the 800-1200 bars on my hitch. Started with the 600-800 and the upgrade was well worth it.

Ejs4029 02-11-2019 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkbre (Post 2022991)
Right on! I do have to say you're an odd diesel guy to know (and care) about his payload figures. [emoji2] Seems most see the type of fuel they use as a free pass on every other factor! [emoji6]

Have the 800-1200 bars on my hitch. Started with the 600-800 and the upgrade was well worth it.

Yep there are no free passes diesel or gas :) But I do hear what you are saying while in Florida this Summer at the campgrounds I saw so many 3/4 ton diesels towing huge 5th wheels that I had to think were overloaded :eek:

I admit I am limited to what 5th wheels I can tow more so then a bumper pull but I knew that when I bought the truck I have no desire to want to move to a 5th wheel if I ever do I will get a new truck or if I want to get a TT that my current truck couldn't handle :)


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