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-   -   How does a TV get its tow rating ? (http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f12/how-does-a-tv-get-its-tow-rating-193995.html)

Mudbug 09-10-2019 10:11 PM

How does a TV get its tow rating ?
 
When I bought my truck I first looked at TT’s and was going to buy a truck based on what I needed to tow. At first I was sure we would get a 5th wheel. I was looking at 2500 and 3500. Long story short we decided we wanted a travel trailer bunk house model. I was still going to get a 2500. Now I had to decide if I wanted to mess with diesel and the DEF of today and the loss of gas mileage that creates or stick with unleaded.

I came across a website talking about a Chevy Silverado 1500 with full tow package 6.2 liter 4x4 that had a tow capacity of 12500 lbs. I asked the sales guy what was the catch? Why wouldn’t it be considered a 2500. He didn’t know. I made them give me something in writing saying it could tow that. So I bought the truck.

Now I have people at the RV places telling me all the time that there is no way my truck is able to tow that. They claim they can find the truth with the vin number. After some time they come back and say they can’t find out but they don’t believe it is rated for that.

My understanding is 2500 and 3500 trucks have stronger leaf springs and larger breaks but that is about all the difference is between them. If you look up my truck it says all over the internet it has a to capacity of 12500 lbs. So what gives ?

bikendan 09-10-2019 10:24 PM

What's the payload capacity of your truck?
It's on the driver's door yellow sticker. It'll say something like "Occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxxlbs".
No matter what they say is the towing capacity, you'll run out of payload capacity WAY before getting close to that towing capacity number.
That's why payload capacity is more important than towing capacity, especially for 5th wheels.

frank4711 09-10-2019 11:28 PM

Some #'s here https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...2017.tab1.html actual will come from scales ... thanks Frank

Mrprovy 09-10-2019 11:50 PM

What's in the owners manual? There should be a breakdown of the truck w/options including engine and gearing

deepseadan 09-10-2019 11:51 PM

The tow capacity doesn’t mean anything. Like another post said payload capacity is everything. “Most” 1500’s or 150’s I’ve seen have around 1400 - 1800lbs payload and 2500 and 3500’s jump up and can almost double the payload of the 1500’s. Payload includes people, cargo, and tongue or pin weight. I used to go by tow rating as well so don’t feel bad. If you go over the payload capacity you are breaking the law and as I’ve found out, your entire rig usually doesn’t handle very well.

clarkbre 09-11-2019 12:09 AM

First off, my thoughts below are not because I drive a Ford. It's just a breakdown of the "Max tow rating" all these trucks get only to find out that they can actually be very limited.

One of the first and places I would reference for actual tow rating info on your truck is the 2017 Chevrolet Trailering & Towing Guide. Page 9 references the Silverado 1500 for conventional, bumper pull trailers.

For your truck to have a true 12,500 tow rating, it would have to be equipped exactly as follows:
  • 6.2L
  • 2wd
  • 3.42 rear end
  • 4 door double cab or a crew cab

If any of these are missing, it has a lesser tow rating.

The fine print on Page 9 also notes:
"TRAILER TONGUE WEIGHT NOTES Trailer tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of total loaded trailer weight up to 1,250 lbs........"

Up to (not more than) 1,250 lbs. If the loaded trailer has exactly 10% tongue weight, it could be a 12,500 lbs trailer. But, if the tongue weight is 15%, the trailer could only weigh a maximum 8,333 lbs (1250/.15). That's a pretty big swing.

"....The addition of trailer tongue weight must not cause vehicle to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)."

The 1250 pound tongue weight will chip away heavily at the available payload listed on the yellow door sticker. If your payload is 1500 pounds (pretty common for a moderately equipped crewcab, 4wd 1/2 ton, shortbed), your WDH is 100 and your tongue weight is 1250, the truck is then able to only take a 150 lbs driver and absolutely nothing else before it's overloaded. (1500-1250-100= 150)

I found this very frustrating with my '11 F150 that had a payload of 1529 and a tow rating of 9,700. We bought our trailer that was 6008 dry and about 7500 fully loaded. With the tongue weight, WDH, family of 4 and gear, the truck was maxed out....and you could feel it.

Having another kiddo on the way and the other 2 kids (8yr and 5yr) growing like weeds, we needed a truck with more payload. I found my F250 200+ miles away and called the dealer asking to see pictures of the door stickers. The salesman was a bit confused but reluctantly sent me pictures with the information. Within minutes I determined that the F250 had a payload of 2766 and a towing capacity of 12,200. It was more than enough truck for the trailer and I was able to put a deposit on it until I could see it in person.

My point is that a "1/2 ton towable" trailer (bumper or 5er) is likely far from that. Ford, GM, RAM, 'Yota & Nissan all push 3 numbers: horsepower, torque & towing capacity all while Forest River and Keystone all push dry weights. For the consumer, it's an evil concoction of numbers that easily lead to frustration in owning underrated trucks and over-weighted trailers.

ependydad 09-11-2019 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepseadan (Post 2181920)
If you go over the payload capacity you are breaking the law and as I’ve found out, your entire rig usually doesn’t handle very well.

At the risk of immediately derailing the thread:

What’s your source on that?

What law? State and statute number, please?

(Mind you, I’m a card carrying member of the “weights matter” club. I upgraded my dually to a newer one with higher capacities when I upgraded trailers. But, I’ve not really found positive proof that the manufacturer’s Weight ratings are legal guidelines; especially when you can often register your truck for higher or lower with some states.)

frank4711 09-11-2019 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad (Post 2181931)
At the risk of immediately derailing the thread:

What’s your source on that?

What law? State and statute number, please?

(Mind you, I’m a card carrying member of the “weights matter” club. I upgraded my dually to a newer one with higher capacities when I upgraded trailers. But, I’ve not really found positive proof that the manufacturer’s Weight ratings are legal guidelines; especially when you can often register your truck for higher or lower with some states.)

X2................

Oaklevel 09-11-2019 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad (Post 2181931)
At the risk of immediately derailing the thread:

What’s your source on that?

What law? State and statute number, please?

(Mind you, I’m a card carrying member of the “weights matter” club. I upgraded my dually to a newer one with higher capacities when I upgraded trailers. But, I’ve not really found positive proof that the manufacturer’s Weight ratings are legal guidelines; especially when you can often register your truck for higher or lower with some states.)

X3

mwdilday 09-11-2019 08:22 AM

OH NO. Not another weight thread. Let's say that it is LEGAL to exceed GVWR and GCWR and Max tow capacity. It is a personal choice. Some people don't care some people do.

Larry0071 09-11-2019 08:32 AM

The 2020 Silverado 1500:


2020 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
Pickup truck

Towing capacity: 6,600 to 9,800 lbs
Payload: 1,660 to 2,280 lbs
MPG: Up to 20 city / 23 highway
Engine: 2.7 L 4-cylinder, 3.0 L 6-cylinder diesel, 4.3 L V6, 5.3 L V8, 6.2 L V8


6.2L EcoTec3 V8 WITH DYNAMIC FUEL MANAGEMENT

  • 420 horsepower and 460 lb.-ft. of torque
  • 10-speed automatic transmission
  • Best-in-class V8 horsepower and torque†(5)
  • Best-in-class 13,400-lb. maximum towing capability†(13)
  • Available on LTZ and High Country. Late availability on Custom Trail Boss, RST and LT Trail Boss

Paulie1138 09-11-2019 08:37 AM

Clarkbre, well written. You made it easy to understand. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

upflying 09-11-2019 09:21 AM

Tow ratings come from Society of Automotive Engineers test J2807.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

frank4711 09-11-2019 09:52 AM

These almost always go downhill ... it's not legal and it's your family at risk .... OP will not have any accurate #'s until there is a trip to scales ... I have been told many times that #'s from Forest River and manufactures mean nothing and most likely made up and distorted to help sell whatever truck/or RV .... If that's true then how does anyone know what they can pull ... Oh wait there's a 20 % rule we need to follow :rolleyes: or just get a 1 ton for all campers ... Your time/experience behind the wheel will tell you right away if you have the wrong set up and if you are new find someone that knows and you trust to help before you buy ... I try to not be as cynical as some but I also see why they are and understand it is because of all the stories and lies in the truck/RV world ... caution with what you buy I know my camper is the 2nd in 6 months traded larger for smaller/shorter and took big hit $$$ live and learn ... this set up will have to do till I move up to a 3500 in couple years ... it pulls straight with ease and stops great ... I will stay in Florida until I have bigger truck for trip out west .... Best of luck to OP

rockfordroo 09-11-2019 10:02 AM

And don't let yourself get bamboozled by the RV salesman.

RV salesmen love to look out the window at your truck and say "Oh, your (fill-in-the-1/2-ton-pickup-truck) can pull this trailer."

My 2009 Silverado 1500 Owners Manual listed 99 (yeah, ninety-nine) different versions of the truck (engine, cab, bed, cooling, transmission, 2WD/4WD, etc) and the tow capacity ranged from 4,000 lb to 12,000 lbs.

So how can a salesman tell that MY truck can pull HIS trailer just from looking at it across the parking lot??

Since you can't really weigh a trailer until you've bought it and loaded it, the most conservative thing you can do is look at the GVWR on the sticker on the left front of the trailer. Multiply the GVWR by 0.13 (13%) and add 100 lbs for a WDH. Then you'll have a conservative estimation of what your tongue weight will be. Now subtract this tongue weight from the payload on the sticker on the trucks drivers door. Whatever is left is what you can put in the truck (you, wife, kids, dog, stuff).

Good luck.

Jim34RL 09-11-2019 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upflying (Post 2182078)
Tow ratings come from Society of Automotive Engineers test J2807.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

X2. But realize this is the bare minimum that all of the vehicle manufactures would agree to and the SAE society would agree on.

rockfordroo 09-11-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upflying (Post 2182078)
Tow ratings come from Society of Automotive Engineers test J2807.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim34RL (Post 2182132)
X2. But realize this is the bare minimum that all of the vehicle manufactures would agree to and the SAE society would agree on.

And the test isn't pulliing a large sail down the road. It's a relatively low trailer.

tomkatb 09-11-2019 10:41 AM

In the past the marketing department made up numbers moire or less.

Today it is a good question.

Look at the Ram towing lit. They list hundreds of combinations. get the flavor of what is said.

Every option on a truck deducts from the max payload including you and the spouse plus kids.

In engineering school they teach you how to read specs.

Long heavy trailers can give half ton trucks issues. Depends, depends.

3/4 and 1 ton trucks are more powerful and have bigger everything. Heavier which tames other sway issues.

frank4711 09-11-2019 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomkatb (Post 2182143)
In the past the marketing department made up numbers moire or less.

Today it is a good question.

Look at the Ram towing lit. They list hundreds of combinations. get the flavor of what is said.

Every option on a truck deducts from the max payload including you and the spouse plus kids.

In engineering school they teach you how to read specs.

Long heavy trailers can give half ton trucks issues. Depends, depends.

3/4 and 1 ton trucks are more powerful and have bigger everything. Heavier which tames other sway issues.

With Ram I just plug in vin and get my numbers ?? My new 4 foot camper is better for my 2019 1500 ...

Lins 09-11-2019 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkbre (Post 2181923)
First off, my thoughts below are not because I drive a Ford. It's just a breakdown of the "Max tow rating" all these trucks get only to find out that they can actually be very limited.

One of the first and places I would reference for actual tow rating info on your truck is the 2017 Chevrolet Trailering & Towing Guide. Page 9 references the Silverado 1500 for conventional, bumper pull trailers.

For your truck to have a true 12,500 tow rating, it would have to be equipped exactly as follows:
  • 6.2L
  • 2wd
  • 3.42 rear end
  • 4 door double cab or a crew cab

If any of these are missing, it has a lesser tow rating.

The fine print on Page 9 also notes:
"TRAILER TONGUE WEIGHT NOTES Trailer tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of total loaded trailer weight up to 1,250 lbs........"

Up to (not more than) 1,250 lbs. If the loaded trailer has exactly 10% tongue weight, it could be a 12,500 lbs trailer. But, if the tongue weight is 15%, the trailer could only weigh a maximum 8,333 lbs (1250/.15). That's a pretty big swing.

"....The addition of trailer tongue weight must not cause vehicle to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)."

The 1250 pound tongue weight will chip away heavily at the available payload listed on the yellow door sticker. If your payload is 1500 pounds (pretty common for a moderately equipped crewcab, 4wd 1/2 ton, shortbed), your WDH is 100 and your tongue weight is 1250, the truck is then able to only take a 150 lbs driver and absolutely nothing else before it's overloaded. (1500-1250-100= 150)

I found this very frustrating with my '11 F150 that had a payload of 1529 and a tow rating of 9,700. We bought our trailer that was 6008 dry and about 7500 fully loaded. With the tongue weight, WDH, family of 4 and gear, the truck was maxed out....and you could feel it.

Having another kiddo on the way and the other 2 kids (8yr and 5yr) growing like weeds, we needed a truck with more payload. I found my F250 200+ miles away and called the dealer asking to see pictures of the door stickers. The salesman was a bit confused but reluctantly sent me pictures with the information. Within minutes I determined that the F250 had a payload of 2766 and a towing capacity of 12,200. It was more than enough truck for the trailer and I was able to put a deposit on it until I could see it in person.

My point is that a "1/2 ton towable" trailer (bumper or 5er) is likely far from that. Ford, GM, RAM, 'Yota & Nissan all push 3 numbers: horsepower, torque & towing capacity all while Forest River and Keystone all push dry weights. For the consumer, it's an evil concoction of numbers that easily lead to frustration in owning underrated trucks and over-weighted trailers.

My brother-in-law has a 2017 Silverado 1500 and his payload is around 2000lbs. I checked the CCC myself. Not sure what his towing capacity is, but I'm sure it's up there. He has a 4wd crew cab with 20" wheels and P-rated tires. Although their trailer is slightly smaller, they have no problem keeping up with us up and down the rockies in the middle of summer. Quite impressive actually for a half ton.

Edit: Yes, he has since replaced the tires. This year. With the exact same ones and has NO issues with them.


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