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Old 06-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #21
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I would be very surprised this would work, being an electrician I would only pull 3 wires and a ground (2 hots and 1 neutral) to the 2 outlets. By code they have to be on separate phase's to balance the neutral load.
You are talking about taking both phases of the 120 V supply to get a 240V circuit. The OP was asking about paralleling two 15 amp cjrcuits to create a 30 amp circuit.

If all of the impedances were carefully matched, it could be made to work. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is not a good idea. There is just too much that can go wrong.

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Old 06-17-2012, 03:24 PM   #22
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all this conversation made me think back to my days after i retired and worked PT at home depot. Xmas time would always bring in the customer that wanted a male to male plug adapter because they ran their Xmas lights and ended up with 2 female plugs that they could not connect.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:25 PM   #23
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I'm with the "Don't try this at home kiddies" crowd......

Running two 15s, or a 15 and a 30, into a 50 amp wired trailer with each side of the panel being independently energized by one of the two lines is a whole different kettle of fish than what is being discussed here. One of the big challenges is having absolutely no idea what the campground owner has done from the pedestal back to the main.

Run away, run away!!!
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:33 PM   #24
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This mod here http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...r-13769-9.html got me wondering where I can pick up a 30 a female to 2 x 15a male Edison "y" adapter... Would come in handy...

Not to be rude but this is not any where safe to do.
By asking the question here is good to get experienced answers.
My answer to you is... DO NOT DO THIS!
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #25
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You are talking about taking both phases of the 120 V supply to get a 240V circuit. The OP was asking about paralleling two 15 amp cjrcuits to create a 30 amp circuit.

If all of the impedances were carefully matched, it could be made to work. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is not a good idea. There is just too much that can go wrong.

Joel

The adapter would do neither - it would simply feed the other half of the panel with another 15a circuit, regardless of what phase its source was. Since there are no 220 / 240v requirements in the trailer, it's simply "more" power
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:17 PM   #26
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all this conversation made me think back to my days after i retired and worked PT at home depot. Xmas time would always bring in the customer that wanted a male to male plug adapter because they ran their Xmas lights and ended up with 2 female plugs that they could not connect.

Lol - my career has been built on creating shortcuts around stuff like this. You remind me of the home depot guy in the electrical dept that would keep telling us we couldn't do something or ask why or what we were building. It was usually a spaceship or submarine - we'd just nod and ignore the guy as we're never allowed to discuss what we're making anyways.

Home depot is handy for parts!
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Horned Owl

You are talking about taking both phases of the 120 V supply to get a 240V circuit. The OP was asking about paralleling two 15 amp cjrcuits to create a 30 amp circuit.

If all of the impedances were carefully matched, it could be made to work. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is not a good idea. There is just too much that can go wrong.

Joel
I understand this, I was trying to point out that in all likelihood he won't have 2 separate circuits that are the same phase in one pedestal. I would think my scenario is more likely.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:40 PM   #28
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However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is not a good idea. There is just too much that can go wrong. Joel
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:58 PM   #29
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It never ceases to amaze me how uncomfortable people are with electricity
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:03 PM   #30
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It never ceases to amaze me how uncomfortable people are with electricity
"A man has got to know his limitations."
Steve McQueen
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:25 PM   #31
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Nope, Dirty Harry Callahan, at least that is the way I remember it. Maybe Steve McQueen said it too, but I think it was Dirty Harry, (Clint Eastwood).

And to add one more confusing thing, a duplex outlet, (normal house plug) is only good for a total of 15 amps. Even with a cord in each receptacle, 15 amps is IT!!!!!

Now, on a camper with 50 amp service, it is 2 phase, for 240 volts between them, but as stated, the camper doesn't require 240 volts. One phase runs the camper just like 30 amp service. The other phase runs the second AC unit, and washer and dryer if equipped. The second phase generally feeds the duplex outlet, (normal house plug), if there is one on the pedestal. this helps to balance the load. If the campground is wired correctly, the pedestal nest door will be wired opposite, to help balance the load, and to keep my AC from dimming your television. How correct is the campground, is anybody's guess.

Delivered a new Cardinal 5th wheel last year to the beach, 50 amp service. Set it up, turned on both AC units, and took out the next three beside. Wasn't a pretty site on a Sunday afternoon, 95 degrees, and not many happy campers. I hooked to the trade in and left, as it was a 250 mile ride back home. Left the owners and the campground to figure it out. (seasonal site).
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:24 AM   #32
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Yep - You are correct, Dirty Harry, Magnum Force. And you were correct, "Hooked up the trade in and left".
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:30 AM   #33
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Doh, Having a "Run of Wrong"
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:24 AM   #34
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Lol - my career has been built on creating shortcuts around stuff like this. You remind me of the home depot guy in the electrical dept that would keep telling us we couldn't do something or ask why or what we were building. It was usually a spaceship or submarine - we'd just nod and ignore the guy as we're never allowed to discuss what we're making anyways.

Home depot is handy for parts!
nope,never told them they couldn't do that. I suggested they buy a ft. of 2 conducter wire and 2 male plugs.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:47 AM   #35
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I say give it a go. But don't try it until dusk on July 4th. Better lighting then.


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Old 06-18-2012, 10:10 AM   #36
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I say give it a go. But don't try it until dusk on July 4th. Better lighting then.



- uh - right.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:28 AM   #37
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This thread reminds me greatly of my motto when designing and coding a user interface on the web:

Just as soon as I make something idiot proof, they go and make a better idiot!
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #38
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I think this has gone on long enough.
If no one objects we will give this thread a decent burial and close it.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:41 PM   #39
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So made some great progress today. There are basically two versions of this unit. One for someone who knows what electricity is, and then an idiot proofed unit which is pretty cool.

Idiot proofed unit goes through several safety checks - first deactivates second 15a male input when only one is connected.

Next, when second 15 a source is connected, checks to confirm its on the same phase to prevent creating a 240v circuit, and won't allow a 240v circuit to be created.

Next, checks to confirm that second circuit is wired correctly, and that hot and neutral are not reversed.

If all checks confirm, then is completes the circuit and allows you to parallel both 15a sources.

Going to go ahead with building both units. I personally don't need the idiot proofed version, but we had a long chat about it and figured it might be something worthy of putting into production. Maybe you'll see this for sale at your dealer one day!

We were trying to decide on price point. What would you pay for a certified gadget that would safely let you get a 30a supply for your camper when camping at a site that only had 15a receptacles available?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:15 AM   #40
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To me if you have your garage or kitchen wired up with the top outlet being on the same breaker as the bottom The electrician saw you coming. But what do I know I wired both of mine myself... I do not have a degree or deign spaceships or submarines. But I have helped wire multi million dollar houses. If you are doing this because you do not have a 30 amp hookup outside of your garage I suggest running line big enough for a 50 amp and putting in the 30/50 plugin. Depending on what your trailer needs. But if there is any chance you might upgrade to a 50 amp trailer run the right gauge wire for 50 amp cost is not much more when you figure on cost to dig up and rebury new wire. And if you think of it the only reason you really need 30 amp rather than 15 is for the AC.
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