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Old 06-17-2012, 12:07 AM   #1
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30a female Y adapter to 2 x 15a male?

This mod here http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...r-13769-9.html got me wondering where I can pick up a 30 a female to 2 x 15a male Edison "y" adapter... Would come in handy...
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:03 AM   #2
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Now I am curious.

What gave you the impression that you can get 30 amp 110 AC out of using both 15 amp 110 AC duplex outlets from that post?

It is certainly not true... The line has a 15 amp circuit breaker.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:59 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
Now I am curious.

What gave you the impression that you can get 30 amp 110 AC out of using both 15 amp 110 AC duplex outlets from that post?

It is certainly not true... The line has a 15 amp circuit breaker.
Retired electrical engineer here. Under ideal conditions, you could get 30 amps from hooking two 15 amp circuits in parallel. Don't forget that each line has a 15 amp breaker. They just need to be (and they should be) wired so they are in phase.

The problem is a phenomena of parallel circuits called current hogging. If the two circuits do not have exactly the same resistance, your load will draw more current from the circuit with lower resistance. The breaker for that circuit will trip long before you draw a combined 30 amps.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:09 AM   #4
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I am pretty sure he was not talking about two different 15 amp circuits taken from opposite sides of the breaker panel.

I think he meant just plugging into the top and bottom outlets on a single duplex.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:39 AM   #5
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I am pretty sure he was not talking about two different 15 amp circuits taken from opposite sides of the breaker panel.

I think he meant just plugging into the top and bottom outlets on a single duplex.

Actually I was talking about pulling from two different 15a circuits - since none of the appliances are 240v there should be no issue even if both 15a circuits you pull from are on the same phase. If you read the link back to the original post the OP installed a relay and a second 15a input for his trailer so he could draw on 2 x 15a circuits when available but that got me thinking in terms of simply making a Y adapter vs modifying your panel. Last two campsites I was at btw had no 30a, only 15a, but did in fact have two duplexes per post each with its own 15a breaker.

OP's original goal was to be able to run AC and microwave at the same time when presented with 2 x 15a circuit

Only safety issue would be if you only plugged one of the male 15a Edison's in - the unplugged one would be hot. Could come up with a work around for that when I have my morning coffee.

FYI - TQ electrician here as well.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:00 AM   #6
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Adapter

The only Y type adapter I have seen at camping world is a 30 amp male and a 15 amp male to plug in and have a 50 amp female.....I guess you could put an adapter on the 30 amp male and make it a 15 amp male so you would have two 15 amp male plugs.....they also have an adapter that plugs into a 50 amp and has a 30 amp plug (female) .......but there again that is probably just taking one of the 15 amps but I don t know what the diagram is.....so you really gain no amp increase.....unless you use it as a 50 amp.....there again have not looked at the diagram....but when you plug in surge protector, that gives volts and amps readout....you will know

Good luck.....
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookside View Post
Actually I was talking about pulling from two different 15a circuits - since none of the appliances are 240v there should be no issue even if both 15a circuits you pull from are on the same phase. If you read the link back to the original post the OP installed a relay and a second 15a input for his trailer so he could draw on 2 x 15a circuits when available but that got me thinking in terms of simply making a Y adapter vs modifying your panel. Last two campsites I was at btw had no 30a, only 15a, but did in fact have two duplexes per post each with its own 15a breaker.

OP's original goal was to be able to run AC and microwave at the same time when presented with 2 x 15a circuit

Only safety issue would be if you only plugged one of the male 15a Edison's in - the unplugged one would be hot. Could come up with a work around for that when I have my morning coffee.

FYI - TQ electrician here as well.
You would have to turn off both breakers, plug in both plugs, and then turn the breakers on again.

You would also have to make sure that the two circuits are in phase. Also, if one (but not both) of the circuits have the hot and neutral reversed, there will be trouble. Either of those conditions will result in nasty fireworks. Before trying this, check the voltage between the hot side of each circuit.
0V In phase. OK
120V One line reversed. No good
240V Out of phase. No good

In the real world, I would be surprised if you draw more than 25 amps without tripping one or the other of the breakers. This is probably not a very good idea if you don't know exactly what you are doing.

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Old 06-17-2012, 10:39 AM   #8
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Are you talking about running two parallel 15 amp cords on the same phase to the same 30A panel? You aren't allowed to run 15 amp conductors in parallel by Code which is essentially what you would be doing I think? Great Horned Owl is correct, you'd want to make sure both cords are the same gauge and the same length, but this is something that doesn't sit right. Lots of things can be done technically but it doesn't always mean they are appropriate or safe.

Why not install an independent 15 amp inlet on the side and install a receptacle in the interior. (I've done this.) Then you would not run afowl of any rules. And if you could come up with an acceptable way to switch the AC between the panel and new 15 amp inlet, you have a solution.

BTW, aren't many 15 amp receptacles on pedestals actually 15/20 amp fed by a 20 amp breaker? Then you *could* be feeding 15 amp cords by 20A breakers??
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:53 AM   #9
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Would be more inclined to make a waterproof enclosure with a 30a female output and two recessed 15a male inputs and a strapped 2 pole 15a breaker.

It wouldnt matter if the circuits you are pulling off of are on the same phase or not since you're not trying to get 240v, just more amperage.

FYI - myred - I see you are in Canada. You can parallel conductors in the USA and regardless in the enclosure configuration you aren't paralleling conductors. You're feeding each half of your panel with an individual circuit.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:55 AM   #10
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someone needs to do a drawing and or mock this up I am curious !
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:57 AM   #11
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I would be very surprised this would work, being an electrician I would only pull 3 wires and a ground (2 hots and 1 neutral) to the 2 outlets. By code they have to be on separate phase's to balance the neutral load.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Coops1 View Post
I would be very surprised this would work, being an electrician I would only pull 3 wires and a ground (2 hots and 1 neutral) to the 2 outlets. By code they have to be on separate phase's to balance the neutral load.
Is canadian Electric diffèrent ? just kidding !
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:10 AM   #13
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I actually think the US code is slowly catching up...
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:15 AM   #14
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And we wonder why campers burn down. I think I know the answer.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:19 AM   #15
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now windrider that cannot possibly be the case !

You know no one modifies there electrical system in some weird way to get power .

like
a 220 volt 30 amp rv plug in
or 100 foot 14 ga power cord
or even better yet flipping breakers every ten minutes thinking it will automatically solve the issue of tripping breakers .

lol come on !
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:23 AM   #16
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And we wonder why campers burn down. I think I know the answer.
That would be specifically why I would build an external adapter rather than hacking up your panel and rv as in the original post.

For fun I'll get my staff to make up a prototype some time in the next few weeks.

Since we can also certify equipment I might go so far as to have our other facility throw a UL and CSA certification on it for all of ya
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:30 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by brookside View Post
That would be specifically why I would build an external adapter rather than hacking up your panel and rv as in the original post.

For fun I'll get my staff to make up a prototype some time in the next few weeks.

Since we can also certify equipment I might go so far as to have our other facility throw a UL and CSA certification on it for all of ya
Cant wait to see this !
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:47 AM   #18
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I've seen some crazy things with UL and CSA certification on it, mostly lighting though.

I guess if he adds self voltage testing with a built in relay to energize the second leg with smart technology to ensure it is plugged in it may work. I think the price point would be higher than anyone would want to pay though.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:48 AM   #19
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Of course now my device will have to become more complicated for it to be certified. It will have to contain a bunch of idiot proofing
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #20
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I stand corrected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brookside View Post
Actually I was talking about pulling from two different 15a circuits - since none of the appliances are 240v there should be no issue even if both 15a circuits you pull from are on the same phase. If you read the link back to the original post the OP installed a relay and a second 15a input for his trailer so he could draw on 2 x 15a circuits when available but that got me thinking in terms of simply making a Y adapter vs modifying your panel. Last two campsites I was at btw had no 30a, only 15a, but did in fact have two duplexes per post each with its own 15a breaker.

OP's original goal was to be able to run AC and microwave at the same time when presented with 2 x 15a circuit

Only safety issue would be if you only plugged one of the male 15a Edison's in - the unplugged one would be hot. Could come up with a work around for that when I have my morning coffee.

FYI - TQ electrician here as well.
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