a/c compressor doesn't run

[2005gts]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

was your computer/camera level when you uploaded?
------------------------------------------------------------
when you take a picture especially on a phone... they put orientation information into the pic.
That info is based on what the camera thinks you want...

In the old days if your turn your camera upside down... you get an upside down pic... the auto orientation thinks you want it the other way up.

you can turn off the automatic stuff in your camera settings
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web browsers use that info to make sure the picture is right side up in a web page.

The same picture ... when you click it to view only the picture
It is now no longer inside a web page and the orientation is different.

AMAZING... when i clicked on the thermostat picture it displayed properly, in the posting it was rotated...... kinda annoying to viewers of the posting, makes them try to swivel their heads 90 degrees....

thank you, but i'm still not sure what setting in the iphone causes this as i don't see it happening in other circumstances

Bill

[Aussieguy]

do the math....
new digital = 120

monthly saving = 2 - 5

will take forever to get a decent hangover


Note.

calcs based on IPA or crappy canned stuff and average liver condition

[2005gts]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

do the math....
new digital = 120

monthly saving = 2 - 5

will take forever to get a decent hangover


Note.

calcs based on IPA or crappy canned stuff and average liver condition

i prefer Natty Light.. (probably the same time span tho.. )



Bill

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

ps: how come my pictures post sideways?

The Website modifies your pictures by resizing them, stripping off the metadata (EXIF), and compressing them. I assume the reasons are:

• To reduce storage space
• To speed up download and page rendering
• To strip off the personal information contained in the EXIF, including time, date, exact GPS location, camera type, shutter speed, ISO, and f/stop.

The camera only scans its image sensor one way, like the raster you would see on an old CRT TV. The EXIF data contains the orientation which tells your browser how to render the image. This information is lost in the stripping process.

To get the images to render properly, always hold the phone with the button on the right.

[2005gts]

going to try posting a picture with a 90* camera rotation


hmm , that didn't work...

now going to try a 90* rotation of the picture before posting....

that didn't work either....

Bill

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

going to try posting a picture with a 90* camera rotation


hmm , that didn't work...

now going to try a 90* rotation of the picture before posting....

that didn't work either....

Bill

Bill,

It's more subtle than that. When you ask the computer to rotate a photo, it can be done in two ways.
1) Simply rotate the image on the screen.
2) Actually decompose the line-by-line raster image into a 2-dimensional image, and then store it line-by-line, picking the new lines from columns, or from rows, bottom to top and right to left.

Some graphics programs give you the option to select which of these two choices you want.

[2005gts]

hmmm, again...

original picture was taken sideways with an Iphone 12 pro max and emailed from that phone as an attachment to an email.

then it was received by earthlink email on a windows 10 desktop computer, from there it was saved on the windows desktop, and then uploaded to the forum

the 2nd attachment try was using whatever the windows desktop picture is/was to rotate the original picture on the desktop 90* sideways so i could try fool the forum software into straightening it.. nope...

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

hmmm, again...

original picture was taken sideways with an Iphone 12 pro max and emailed from that phone as an attachment to an email.

then it was received by earthlink email on a windows 10 desktop computer, from there it was saved on the windows desktop, and then uploaded to the forum

the 2nd attachment try was using whatever the windows desktop picture is/was to rotate the original picture on the desktop 90* sideways so i could try fool the forum software into straightening it.. nope...

The software can actually re-write the image in a different direction, or it can simply edit the EXIF data to declare a different orientation. Since you have a Windows 10 computer, download and install the free Irfanview software. Open your test image in Irfanview.

First, press the L key and or the R key a few times. This rotates the image on the screen. It does nothing to the saved file.

Press the Circle-i (Information) button at the top of the screen. Then click the EXIF button. This will show you the orientation of the saved file. If you take a couple of pictures with the phone held in different orientations, and then check their orientations, you will see how they change. The web browser or photo viewer software honors the EXIF orientation. The forum software discards the EXIF data. In this case the web browser or photo viewer ASSUMES orientation= top left.

This might be helpful.

[2005gts]

surely everyone who posts a picture doesn't do this!!!

Bill

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

surely everyone who posts a picture doesn't do this!!!

Bill

Of course not. They all do what four or five people have told you to do already. They hold the phone in the native mode that doesn't rely on the orientation number. That is, they hold the phone with the button on the right. We suggest you try it.

[2005gts]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Of course not. They all do what four or five people have told you to do already. They hold the phone in the native mode that doesn't rely on the orientation number. That is, they hold the phone with the button on the right. We suggest you try it.

Larry
i have taken these 2 pix with my iphone 12 maxpro, one upright, one sideways. they both looked the same on my monitor (ie: the bike upright)

Bill

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

Larry
i have taken these 2 pix with my iphone 12 maxpro, one upright, one sideways. they both looked the same on my monitor (ie: the bike upright)

Bill

Bill, you aren't listening. I've explained this a couple of times. I'll add a little more detail now, but this is the last time.

What you called sideways (2nd photo) corresponds to "Button on the right."

However, you are being insufficiently precise. There are two sideways (landscape) orientations, button on the left and button on the right. Had you taken the 2nd photo with the button on the left, it would render upside-down.

And, of course, there are two upright (portrait) orientations, button-on-top and button-on-bottom. One of these would render as rotated left and one as rotated right.

Here's the detail
The image chip in digital cameras and phones is an array of photo sensors. At a single instant (shutter click), all of the sensors are exposed to the same image. (If it didn't work that way, moving objects would be sheared--the bottom of a race car would be ahead of the top.

Now, that image in the photo sensor has to read off the sensor chip, processed, and written to memory. It would take thousands of connections to read them all at once. Instead they are read sequentially, starting at the first row, left-to-right, then second row...until the rightmost element of the last row.

So the image is always copied from the sensor in the same order, regardless of the orientation of the phone/camera. If it were displayed without regard to other data, it would appear rotated as you have demonstrated (in 2 of the 4 cases). The camera ALWAYS takes the image this way. There is no other way.

To provide the user experience you have learned to expect, the image file contains metadata called the EXchangeable Image File (EXIF) information. One of the items in it is "Orientation." This is an instruction to the web browser or photo viewer. It tells the browser/viewer "When you display (render) this, start at the top left" (or top right, bottom right, or bottom left (as appropriate). That process is hidden from the user. I've attached a sample below.

When images on the internet were just getting going (1995-2005), storage was very expensive, and displaying high-resolution images on 640x480 CRT monitors would have meant discarding the high resolution, the people writing forum software accepted uploads and the first thing they did was to rewrite the image to much lower resolution. (Think of displaying only every other row and every other column, or maybe discarding two for each one they kept.) When they did this, they also discarded the EXIF metadata, including the orientation, so all images are shown at the default orientation, top left.

This is not only true for the commercial software used to drive this forum. The site I'm using to manage my high school graduation dates from that era and works the same way.

There were a couple of reasons for discarding the EXIF data.
1) Save storage space
2) Some of the information (including size, resolution, and edit information) would now be incorrect.
3) EXIFs may include GPS location and would include inadvertent disclosure of private location information by uninformed users.

[2005gts]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Bill, you aren't listening. I've explained this a couple of times. I'll add a little more detail now, but this is the last time.

What you called sideways (2nd photo) corresponds to "Button on the right."

However, you are being insufficiently precise. There are two sideways (landscape) orientations, button on the left and button on the right. Had you taken the 2nd photo with the button on the left, it would render upside-down.

And, of course, there are two upright (portrait) orientations, button-on-top and button-on-bottom. One of these would render as rotated left and one as rotated right.

Here's the detail
The image chip in digital cameras and phones is an array of photo sensors. At a single instant (shutter click), all of the sensors are exposed to the same image. (If it didn't work that way, moving objects would be sheared--the bottom of a race car would be ahead of the top.

Now, that image in the photo sensor has to read off the sensor chip, processed, and written to memory. It would take thousands of connections to read them all at once. Instead they are read sequentially, starting at the first row, left-to-right, then second row...until the rightmost element of the last row.

So the image is always copied from the sensor in the same order, regardless of the orientation of the phone/camera. If it were displayed without regard to other data, it would appear rotated as you have demonstrated (in 2 of the 4 cases). The camera ALWAYS takes the image this way. There is no other way.

To provide the user experience you have learned to expect, the image file contains metadata called the EXchangeable Image File (EXIF) information. One of the items in it is "Orientation." This is an instruction to the web browser or photo viewer. It tells the browser/viewer "When you display (render) this, start at the top left" (or top right, bottom right, or bottom left (as appropriate). That process is hidden from the user. I've attached a sample below.

When images on the internet were just getting going (1995-2005), storage was very expensive, and displaying high-resolution images on 640x480 CRT monitors would have meant discarding the high resolution, the people writing forum software accepted uploads and the first thing they did was to rewrite the image to much lower resolution. (Think of displaying only every other row and every other column, or maybe discarding two for each one they kept.) When they did this, they also discarded the EXIF metadata, including the orientation, so all images are shown at the default orientation, top left.

This is not only true for the commercial software used to drive this forum. The site I'm using to manage my high school graduation dates from that era and works the same way.

There were a couple of reasons for discarding the EXIF data.
1) Save storage space
2) Some of the information (including size, resolution, and edit information) would now be incorrect.
3) EXIFs may include GPS location and would include inadvertent disclosure of private location information by uninformed users.

Larry

i am listening, if i don't i miss the opportunity to learn something. the 2 pictures i posted were taken, one portrait and one landscape. the portrait one posted sideways on the forum, the landscape one posted correctly.

so, i have learned something (maybe)

Bill

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by 2005gts

Larry

i am listening, if i don't i miss the opportunity to learn something. the 2 pictures i posted were taken, one portrait and one landscape. the portrait one posted sideways on the forum, the landscape one posted correctly.

so, i have learned something (maybe)

Bill

Well, maybe you have learned and are imprecisely explaining it.
You said:
Portrait doesn't render correctly on the forum.
Landscape does.

But those two terms are ambiguous. There are two portrait orientations (button-on-bottom, button-on-top) and two landscape orientations (button-on-right, button on left).

If you told someone to always post in landscape on the forum, but he was left-handed and posted in landscape mode, with the button-on-the-left, it would render upside-down!

Post another Landscape photo, taken with the button on the left, and try it.

Similarly if you were to post another Portrait photo with the button on top, it will render as the "other" sideways.

The "button-on-left/right/top/bottom" description is clumsy, but it distinguishes all four orientations, as portrait/landscape fails to do. Only one of the four gives the desired result.

[2005gts]

thank you

[Aussieguy]

wait there is more....
Nowdays a lot of devices will re-size images before they are uploaded to a web site. That way it saves on uploading a HUGE file that can take several minutes or more per photo.

If the DEVICE uploads the photo re-sized it usually retains the EXIFF data

so the info for orientation, GPS ,date etc etc is saved


IF the web site uses their image re-sizing software ... GD or ImageMagick then most times the EXIFF is removed


I run a website that uploads thousands of images a day... it can be a real pain in the BUTT , explaining to people to check their device settings etc