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Old 02-02-2018, 07:09 PM   #81
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This is very interesting, I just talked to progressive, they said I either have to make a grounding plug or put my hard wired EMS in by-pass mode. They said that they feel it would be okay to do that, but you won't be protected on spikes. All this talk about generators on here and it has never been mentioned, now this is for a invertor generator potable generator only, so thanks aquenichet for this info, now they use to make this plug and said they stopped, you have to make your own, so back to ytube. A good y-tube on this is called testing and bonding a floating nuterial generator. how do other members handle this?..
We don't. Just forget about the grounding lug on the portable generator.

45 year Licensed Master Electrician here.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:13 PM   #82
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I wouldn't obsess over the ground lug on a portable generator. For years and years these small gensets didn't have them but if they are used on a construction site, often the "OSHA" inspector will demand that the units be grounded. A jumper cable to a cold water pipe or ground rod was enough for many in days past but now some inspectors want to see a specified "ground point".

The reason to use the "jumper plug" is to provide the same ground/neutral bond that occurs in power panels for electrical equipment that requires continuity between ground and neutral. My home furnace is picky like this so when powering it during power outages I need to use my "cheater plug".

If campground posts are wired correctly the ground and neutral meet up back at the distribution panel.

On that last note, it's not a bad idea to carry a test plug that tells you if the hot and neutral are reversed or if the ground connection is bad. Considering the number of different people that plug into those posts in just a year's period of time, can you imagine the wear, tear, and abuse they get. They don't always get replaced correctly either.
Yes I have a test plug, my only thing is I want it to be line with my EMS, can t do it without, a ground or jumper, as I said only on the invertor models, no problem with open frame they are grounded to the frame. I want to know how safe it is combining a neutral bar and ground bar together, you are really taking the neutral out at that point. Also no problems with built in units they use a transfer switch that creates the ground, this is only invertor type closed generators and using your hard wired EMS. There benefits in using your EMS in line. Thanks for your help did const for 25 years understand what you are saying, but those were never invertor generators.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:16 PM   #83
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We don't. Just forget about the grounding lug on the portable generator.

45 year Licensed Master Electrician here.
Is your generator in line with a EMS? OR is it a invertor type, not apple and oranges , but thanks, my EMS will not work without the ground.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:47 PM   #84
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no problem with open frame they are grounded to the frame. I want to know how safe it is combining a neutral bar and ground bar together, you are really taking the neutral out at that point.

First off, I use the jumper with my inverter and no problems.

As for open frame gensets having neutral bonded, it depends. My champion 3500/4000 watt did not. Wouldn't run my high efficiency furnace in my house. A quickly applied jumper in the box at the end of my extension cord, neutral(silver) screw to ground (green) solved the problem and we had heat.

The "jumpered plug" is just a quicker way to do what I did inside the box I put on the end of my 10-3 w/ground SO cord I made an extension out of.

For all practical purposes, "neutral" is also "ground". Here in the US gensets don't seem to have their neutral's bonded while in other countries it's required.

Next time I have my inverter running (Champion 3500 watt) I'll plug in my jumper plug and see if there's any potential on exposed metal parts to an earth ground. My guess is that there won't be any more than if I was to hold the voltmeter leads, one in left and one in right hand.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:08 PM   #85
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Thanks, I'm just going to make the plug up, if my voltage drops because I'm running out of gas I want the power to trailer to also stop at that point. The manual states that the connection needs to be turned off before running out of gas or damage COULD occur not covered, just good practice and safe being grounded. Thanks for your post


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Old 02-02-2018, 08:16 PM   #86
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Thanks, I'm just going to make the plug up, if my voltage drops because I'm running out of gas I want the power to trailer to also stop at that point. The manual states that the connection needs to be turned off before running out of gas or damage COULD occur not covered, just good practice and safe being grounded. Thanks for your post


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The problems caused by running out of gas are caused by the voltage regulator in the genset/inverter having to "hunt" during that period where the motor speed drops then rises as the fuel runs out.

To prevent this I just pay more attention to my fuel consumption and time running. I'm not averse to shutting down the unit and refueling after 4-5 hours on gas (10 hours on 20# propane tank). That said, having an automatic load shutoff do the job as soon as voltage fluctuates is great.

Strangely enough, my old Champion generator had a switch that I could use to shut off the power output without shutting off the motor.

My Inverter does not. Only way to shed load is to pull the plug.
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:42 PM   #87
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Ok, I've read 9 pages of post here about generators. Thank you all for contributing. But I am still green at RVing and only had my Rockwood 2906 for a "week" as of this post.

My TT has...
50amp but runs on 30amp with adapter.
1 15k btu A/C.
1 electric/propane 9cf fridge
1 43" furion and entertainment system.
1 microwave.
multiple ipads/iphones plugged in charging.
1 appleTV
1 blueray player
1 laptop plugged in and probably an external monitor. (work)
My wife wants an electric can opener lol!
Electric / Propane water heater.
Wifi ranger

Will 2 Honda 2200 generators running parallel run everything??

Obviously the microwave will only run when needed. Shutting off A/C for a min or so is not a problem. I was almost joking about the can opener. But am I going to have any problems running the rest??



Thank you!

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Old 04-23-2018, 09:36 PM   #88
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Will 2 Honda 2200 generators running parallel run everything??

Obviously the microwave will only run when needed. Shutting off A/C for a min or so is not a problem. I was almost joking about the can opener. But am I going to have any problems running the rest??



Thank you!

James
We have 2 EU2000is that run everything just fine in our 50amp RV.

Of course there are a few caveats.

When on generator you will run everything that can be run on propane or electric, on propane. If you run the microwave/coffee pot with A/C, if the compressor kicks in, you might have a brown out or overload the gennies. So when running something like the microwave and a/c, we will put the a/c on fan only until done with the other device.

When not running the a/c, we usually only run one generator at a time and just watch what we run simultaneously.

You will be very happy with two 2200s and will learn very fast what the best practices are.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:03 PM   #89
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We have 2 EU2000is that run everything just fine in our 50amp RV.
Thank you! That's what I was hoping to hear!

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When on generator you will run everything that can be run on propane or electric, on propane.
check!

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If you run the microwave/coffee pot with A/C, if the compressor kicks in, you might have a brown out or overload the gennies. So when running something like the microwave and a/c, we will put the a/c on fan only until done with the other device.
Makes total sense. We are ditching the coffee pot for a kerug. We only drink maybe a few cups of coffee each a day. Hadn't thought about that. I suspect since it only runs a little bit it might not be a problem, but maybe it jacks the watts also?

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When not running the a/c, we usually only run one generator at a time and just watch what we run simultaneously.

You will be very happy with two 2200s and will learn very fast what the best practices are.
Thank you Wildcat for your reply. I'm feeling a lot better about it. I went back and forth between other brands, I'd check them out on homedepot, see they were a LOT less then I'd read the reviews and many horror stories. I looked at 7k watt gens and so on... back and forth.

I just want something that is going to work and last a long time and I don't have to give it too much thought. Maybe that is what I am paying extra for?

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Old 04-24-2018, 06:16 AM   #90
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Thank you Wildcat for your reply. I'm feeling a lot better about it. I went back and forth between other brands, I'd check them out on homedepot, see they were a LOT less then I'd read the reviews and many horror stories. I looked at 7k watt gens and so on... back and forth.

I just want something that is going to work and last a long time and I don't have to give it too much thought. Maybe that is what I am paying extra for?

James
Our two Honda Eu2000is are 11 years old. All I do is change the synthetic oil and spark plug every year. I also clean the air filter and spark arrestor screen when needed. I only use high octane fuel with StaBil added. I never worry about draining the fuel. I also ensure they are started at least once a month. We use ours frequently for weeks at a time and 24 hours a day at times during the summer. Since the Hondas have a fuel pump, it makes using our 6 gallon nurse tank easy.

Our friends that buy the cheaper options buy new generators on the average of every 2 to 3 years.

Enjoy your Honda generators!!!
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:40 AM   #91
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Thanks for asking and answering this question. I had the exact question as well but everything I ready was really complicated. Why I donít know.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:33 AM   #92
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Since the Hondas have a fuel pump, it makes using our 6 gallon nurse tank easy.
Where did you get the nurse tank and fuel hose set up?
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:34 AM   #93
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Our two Honda Eu2000is are 11 years old. All I do is change the synthetic oil and spark plug every year. I also clean the air filter and spark arrestor screen when needed. I only use high octane fuel with StaBil added. I never worry about draining the fuel. I also ensure they are started at least once a month. We use ours frequently for weeks at a time and 24 hours a day at times during the summer. Since the Hondas have a fuel pump, it makes using our 6 gallon nurse tank easy.

Our friends that buy the cheaper options buy new generators on the average of every 2 to 3 years.

Enjoy your Honda generators!!!
Wow, that is a sweat setup! Thanks again, bookmarking this page.

The longevity testimonials/reviews I have read is what pushed me to the hondas over the others.

James
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:58 AM   #94
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Where did you get the nurse tank and fuel hose set up?
You can buy them from several places similar to this one: http://www.genxdirect.com/b-e-r-g-s/...t-hnd1-2000id/

Or you can do I like I did and just buy a marine tank, a kit that has parts to replace the vent in the generator fuel caps with a straight through nipple, some 1/8" fuel line, and valves to shut off one side or the other. I just use little drip irrigation valves. Much cheaper route. I do have to replace the fuel line and valves about every three years due to wear and tear from connecting/disconnecting.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:58 AM   #95
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The only benefit I see with two generators is less weight. However, most 3kw generators have handles and wheels and are fairly easy to move around.

2 generators in parallel

Pros:
Weight
You can run one genny when you need less power which is basically anytime air conditioning isn't running
If a genny fails, you have a backup.
At same load, I think parallel gennies are running slightly quieter in parallel then a single larger genny.

Cons:
Smaller ones do not have remote control for remote electric start/shutdown
Pull start-I have a bad shoulder
Twice the maintenance. Oil changes on some of these smaller gennies are messy
Need to refuel two gennies instead of one


Yes, we get it Honda and Yamaha are the gold standard.

With that said, not everybody has a budget for a "Mercedes" but a Hyundai is in their budget.

Champion generators have a great initial warranty and have a solid reputation. Predator generators appear to have a very good initial reputation and are simply rebadged generators that are very common.


My much maligned Boliy generator ran perfectly fine until a fuel line popped loose or split (not 100% sure) which lead to a nasty fire. I'll be replacing my fuel lines every 5 years and checking fuel clamps regularly especially when I replace the fuel filter annually (or install one if there isn't one). My Boliy was about 7 years old with over 2000 hours of use on it. I track my generator usage hours for maintenance and longeivity. Saying my Honda is 11 years old tells me nothing if it is only used 2-3 times a summer for a couple of hours a day.

A tip I found that really helps extend the life of air cooled "splash" lubricated 4 stroke engines is to add about 1.5 oz of low ash 2 stroke oil per gallon of fuel. This is particularly important if you use a gasoline with ethanol. This improves cylinder wall lubricity a tad and should extend service life. Don't worry, spark plugs won't foul with such little oil.

I'm a strong advocate of Champion generators. Mine has been rock solid since I bought it last year. However, in the interest of full disclosure, it doesn't get run very much as my solar takes care of everything but air conditioning and ac use is minimal where we camp. I use my champion more at home in my garage when I don't want to dig out and unroll a long extension cord to power my air compressor for filling my RV tires on the street.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:19 PM   #96
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Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question so completely.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:38 PM   #97
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since you're a 'newbie'... or so, here's some additional questions for all your 'lectrical needs : )

- how many batteries does the coach come with, and are they 6v or 12v?

- does your coach come with an Inverter? (provides 120v power from the batteries)
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:01 AM   #98
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Saying my Honda is 11 years old tells me nothing if it is only used 2-3 times a summer for a couple of hours a day.

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Originally Posted by NMWildcat View Post
Our two Honda Eu2000is are 11 years old. We use ours frequently for weeks at a time and 24 hours a day at times during the summer. Since the Hondas have a fuel pump, it makes using our 6 gallon nurse tank easy.


I think he did say how much he used them in those eleven years, just didn't give actual total hours
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:21 AM   #99
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I think he did say how much he used them in those eleven years, just didn't give actual total hours
I agree 24/7 for weeks at a time tells me something
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:46 AM   #100
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My Boliy was about 7 years old with over 2000 hours of use on it. I track my generator usage hours for maintenance and longeivity. Saying my Honda is 11 years old tells me nothing if it is only used 2-3 times a summer for a couple of hours a day.
Ah. Ok. Unless folks install an hour meter on these smaller inverter generators, any hour usage statement is a SWAG.

But seeing as how you are so interested, I'll give it a shot

We boondock most of the time, and in the Southwest we RV every month of the year. AVG run time per day is 5 hours unless it's summer. We try to use hookups in the summer due to the heat, but always have at least a couple of trips where we run both generators 24 hours a day.

Before retirement, estimating only boondock trips, I get about 400 hours a year for 8 years. Now most of that is split between the 2 EU2000is, so roughly 1600 hours per generator.

After retirement, it has at least doubled, so 800 hours for 3 years is about 1200 hours per generator.

Grand total of an estimated 2800 hours per generator over 11 years. Again.... a SWAG.

After playing with these numbers, appears I change the oil/plugs about every 200 hours which is double the recommended, but it is synthetic so I figure I'm good. Plus the oil always looks good coming out (not too dark and smells ok). Spark plugs are always clean.

I was getting concerned about the lifetime of Honda 2000s until I read posts of folks in Alaska and on sail boats, using them for 10,000 to 20,000 hours. So I should easily have at least another 11 years on these!
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