Brake Drum Removal

Yamaha74 · 07-29-2010, 07:06 AM

I need to remove the brake drum on my Cherokee because I need to replace one of the lug nut studs. I can't seem to pull the drum off. Is there some type of brake shoe release? Any help would be appreciated? Also, are the studs pretty much standard on most campers? If so what is the size?

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2010, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamaha74

I need to remove the brake drum on my Cherokee because I need to replace one of the lug nut studs. I can't seem to pull the drum off. Is there some type of brake shoe release? Any help would be appreciated? Also, are the studs pretty much standard on most campers? If so what is the size?

Crawl under the camper (MAKE SURE YOU HAVE JACK STANDS that can hold the weight of the camper!) and look for a horizontal slot at the bottom of the backing plate. It may have a rubber dust plug in it.

Pop out the dust plug with a large blade common screw driver.
Insert the blade of the screwdriver into the slot and try to engage the brake adjustment pawl. Rotate the pawl wheel (UP I think as its been a while) to retract the brake shoes from contact with the drum. (one direction with tighten the shoes and the drum will stop rotating. The other will loosten the shoes.

Once the shoes are out of the groove they wear into the drum, the drum should come off easily. If not, the drum may be rusted to the hub. Some WD-40 (magic stuff) at the junction of the hub and drum, and a slight tap with a plastic or leather dead blow mallet will pop it off.

**KyDan** · 07-29-2010, 10:49 AM

Hope you've got the drum off by now.
Not sure what to tell you about removing the drum.
How did you get the broken stud head out without removing
the drum??
On my TT the drum and hub are one piece.
Remove the grease cap, cotter pin and outer bearing.
Pull off drum.
I've never had to loosen brake shoes to do this but it could
happen.
Maybe your drum and hub are 2 pieces??
If they are like mine you gotta remove the outer bearing first!

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

Hope you've got the drum off by now.
Not sure what to tell you about removing the drum.
How did you get the broken stud head out without removing
the drum??
On my TT the drum and hub are one piece.
Remove the grease cap, cotter pin and outer bearing.
Pull off drum.
I've never had to loosen brake shoes to do this but it could
happen.
Maybe your drum and hub are 2 pieces??
If they are like mine you gotta remove the outer bearing first!

Dan you are most likely right. I was thinking back to my car drum brake job days. Never having had to take the trailer drums off, I just assumed they were the same as car drums. My bad. You know what they say about assumptions.

I need to look closer at the Al-Ko manual again and see how all that works on my axles.

Yamaha74 · 07-29-2010, 02:29 PM

I have not removed the drum yet and the stud is still there. It didn't break it. The threads are just in bad shape and I can't get the nut back on it. I did see the slot with the rubber dust plug in it. I did not try and do anything with that. I am hoping the hub and drum are not one piece because I have the bearing buddies installed and I am afraid that those will be relatively hard to remove to get to the grease cap. I will find out tonight.

Jas · 07-29-2010, 02:39 PM

give the bearing buddies a little love tap with a dead blow or 2x4. Work your way around just like you would with a standard dust cap. It will wiggle out for you. Looking at my setup it looks like the drum is held on with the axle nut. You may still have to back the brakes off depending on how many miles you logged on the trailer. It usually takes quite a bit of time/mileage to wear deep enough grooves to prevent the drum removal. Most of the time the drum has rust welded itself to the hub and a little persuasion is required.

Don't use the WD-40 as it may overshoot and contaminate the brake linings and cause a bigger problem than what you started with.

**KyDan** · 07-29-2010, 02:52 PM

I'm betting you have one piece hub/drum.
Check your paper work.
My TT came with ALKO axles.
Just use a piece of scrap wood and hit the bearing buddy on
the side.
Rock it a bit and it'll come right off.
I also have bearing buddy caps and had no problem removing
and replacing them this spring when I did my first bearing/seal
replacement on this trailer.
Good luck!

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2010, 04:40 PM

Those of you who had their bearings out; what torque did you use on the axle nut?

Do you just tightened until the rotor does not turn and then back off one cotter key slot?

Never did a trailer (obviously) so I am wondering.

Jas · 07-29-2010, 04:58 PM

personally, I repack the bearings and tighten the nut 1 good grunt past hand tight to seat the bearings. I then back off 1/2 turn and lock it in. Here's a good tech article on the proper procedure:

TECHNICAL INFORMATION AND TECH ARTICLES

scroll around on the page, there is a lot of good bearing tips

Jas · 07-29-2010, 05:00 PM

oh yeah, drum brakes of all designs self adjust in the reverse direction only. When you get the drum off it will make more sense but if you take it on faith, tap the brakes a few times while backing down the road will reset them automatically

**KyDan** · 07-29-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas

oh yeah, drum brakes of all designs self adjust in the reverse direction only.

Electric drum brakes such as found on my trailer do
not self adjust period. They do not have any self adjusting
mechanism.
They also don't work in reverse.
By that I mean they don't brake much or at all in
reverse even if you hold the manual over-ride on
the electric brake control.
Tapping them in reverse would have no effect.
You have to manually adjust them.
That's easy and takes only a couple minutes per wheel
not counting the time it takes you to jack it up.
Read the manual or look it up at the ALKO website.

Please be careful making statements like you did
above. These are TRAILER brakes and do not work
like automotive brakes. Don't assume you know
how they work unless you have actual real world
experience with ELECTRIC TRAILER brakes.

I know what I'm talking about because I had mine
apart earlier this year.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas

personally, I repack the bearings and tighten the nut 1 good grunt past hand tight to seat the bearings. I then back off 1/2 turn and lock it in. Here's a good tech article on the proper procedure:

TECHNICAL INFORMATION AND TECH ARTICLES

scroll around on the page, there is a lot of good bearing tips

Thanks Jas That was JUST what I needed. Bearings will be inspected and repacked this fall.

milzat · 07-29-2010, 09:05 PM

Dexter does make a self-adjusting electric brake, but I doubt you'll find them on many travel trailers.
They're just not cost effective for RV manufacturers.

bobsquarepants · 07-29-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

Those of you who had their bearings out; what torque did you use on the axle nut?

Do you just tightened until the rotor does not turn and then back off one cotter key slot?

Never did a trailer (obviously) so I am wondering.

On my Al-Ko axles I torque the nut while spinning the drum to 20 ft/lbs ... then loosen the nut right off, and torque to 7 ft/lbs (don't spin the drum) ... then back the nut off to the nearest hole where the cotter pin aligns, then I check end play with a run out guage (i'm fussy ok) and its usually between .005 and .010 of end play which is in spec. Also I always use new cotter pins.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsquarepants

On my Al-Ko axles I torque the nut while spinning the drum to 20 ft/lbs ... then loosen the nut right off, and torque to 7 ft/lbs (don't spin the drum) ... then back the nut off to the nearest hole where the cotter pin aligns, then I check end play with a run out gauge (i'm fussy ok) and its usually between .005 and .010 of end play which is in spec. Also I always use new cotter pins.

Thanks again. Like I said earlier I have let the GMC/Buick dealer (we have a good one) manage the maintenance on my car and truck for over 25 years. I have only recently found out that my RV dealer can't be trusted to do most anything, and I need to get the tools out again.

I am depending on you guys with the trailer smarts to keep me straight.

The article Jas posted used a procedure very similar to yours.
The torque values are very close and the end play is a good cross check. Do you use a flat feeler gauge or a wire one?

bobsquarepants · 07-30-2010, 12:25 AM

I use a dial gauge ...

Yamaha74 · 07-30-2010, 06:50 AM

The hub and drum are all one piece and I was able to get the bearing buddy off with no problem. My concern is that there was no cotter pin holding the nut on, but there was a flat washer type thing with a tab on it which sat on top of the bearing and seem to maybe keep the nut from spinning off. Anybody have any insight here?

Yamaha74 · 07-30-2010, 07:02 AM

Never mind I figured it out by reading the link that Jas posted. It looks like I just need to bend one of the tabs up once I set the bearing and get the nut tightened to spec.

The last question I have is where is the best place to get a new wheel stud?

**Herk7769** · 07-30-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamaha74

Never mind I figured it out by reading the link that Jas posted. It looks like I just need to bend one of the tabs up once I set the bearing and get the nut tightened to spec.

The last question I have is where is the best place to get a new wheel stud?

Did you note where it said never to reuse the old tab washer?
They are "use once - throw away" according to that post.

I bought studs at Autozone. They had a complete selection and can match up your old one. Bring a lug nut too as there are different thread pitch as well as length differences.

MtnGuy · 07-30-2010, 08:34 AM

I do as others, and tighten the spindle nut down, then back off about a 1/8 to 1/4 turn and install the cotter pin (tabs on Easy Lube Hubs). But that doesn't always work. I had 1 bearing on my Trailmanor that was running hotter than I like, so I took it to a local trailer shop after I failed to see anything wrong with it. They couldn't find anything wrong either, but I noticed when he tightened the spindle nut, the technician took a lot of time "feeling" the play in the hub. He would tighten the nut, spin the wheel and feel for play, then he loosened the nut some, spun the wheel and felt for play again, and finally settled on a spot to install the tabs. That bearing ran the same temperature as the other side after that. Curious as how his setting was different from mine, I checked the play, and his setting had less play than how I had set up the hub....probably only 1 notch difference.....but it made a difference. Most of the time I trust my mechanical work more than others, but this guy was good. Experience seemed to be the key, which I didn't have. I will continue to do my own maintenance, and maybe the experience will eventually come.

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