Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-11-2019, 09:00 PM   #1
New to RV Life - 22RR
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 8
Process and Instrumentation Drawing

Has anyone been successful obtaining the full P&ID drawing for their RV from Forest River. Is this something that you can get? Essentially this drawing would show all electrical and mechanical components, wiring, piping, tubing, etc to all devices within the RV.
__________________

kenny55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:18 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
B and B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,620
Send a message via AIM to B and B
Every unit is different, no kidding, some of the same units travelling don the line the same day might be wired differently with different colour wires even. What ever is fasted to get done quicker and off the job once the work is done.
__________________

B and B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:33 PM   #3
Paul & Dianne
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: NH
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny55 View Post
Has anyone been successful obtaining the full P&ID drawing for their RV from Forest River. Is this something that you can get? Essentially this drawing would show all electrical and mechanical components, wiring, piping, tubing, etc to all devices within the RV.
LOL. Welcome to the forum from another engineer. I’m a retired controls engineer who did process systems and machine automation.

I doubt that anyone at FR knows what a P&ID is... unless they saw them in a previous life. These things are little houses on wheels. Buy one new, and you get a generic owner’s manual and a pile of manuals for most of the major components. Your wiring, piping and furnace ducts are similar but most likely not identical to the one made the day before and the day after.

Some things, like ceiling ducts, are engineered in when the roof is made. Not all models have them. However, the rest is hand built as quickly as possible. Sometimes well, sometimes not. Wire and cables are strung wherever. Same with your water pipes. My furnace ducts to the front of the camper were jammed into a hole that had been hacked in not quite the right place... so that the ducts were mostly collapsed. I took my oscillating tool and fixed that, but you’ve got to do a lot of crawling and looking to find stuff like that. OTOH, sounds like you might have some experience with that. Read these forums and you’ll learn a lot about what you might find and how to deal with it.

Yeah, what you’re asking for would be great... but it’s never existed. Best you can do is start tracing things out yourself and go from there. As an example, I found out this week that my fridge, TV, two counter receptacles, and I think a couple other receptacles... are all on the same 15A breaker. You can guess how I found out! Now, NEC requires that your kitchen counter and eating area have at least two 20A dedicated circuits... so you see right off that things are different in your RV! We’re on our way to FL, when we get there I’m going to add a breaker, Romex, and put the counter on it’s own... 20A... circuit. I’ve already made some minor wiring and plumbing changes, LOL.

So, just dive in and do what you think needs to be done! You get used to it, our 5er has been pretty good for the most part. Oh, and as usual, if you go to the component OEM websites, you can usually find more information than what you got when you bought the RV. But, even professionally, that’s been normal for years anyway.
__________________
2019 Rockwood 8299BS
2019 F350 Lariat 6.7 CC SRW
ThruHiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 10:00 PM   #4
New to RV Life - 22RR
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 8
Thank you. This was my assumption. I'm just getting into the RV life and just purchased a 22RR. I'm a couple years from retirement (Controls Engineer also).

I have absolutely no expectations that things will work perfectly. Something will not work, will fail at a bad time, and murphy always shows up somewhere. I will likely handle maintenance myself unless it's a major structural issue under warranty. I've pulled the electrical panel and looked around. I was actually surprised at how the wiring looked clean and organized. I have a pretty good idea where and how the propane lines are run as well as water supply and drains.

Being that it's December and brand new RV sitting in the driveway I got plenty of time to lay everything out and understand how the pieces go together.

Thanks!
kenny55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 11:39 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Jim34RL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oswego il
Posts: 1,934
Welcome to the forum.

I am also a retired engineer, Mechanical but spent my last 20 years doing hydraulics design.

If the RV industry wanted to be ISO certified and conform to Six Sigma! They would need to shut down for two year just so they could comply with the necessary documentation!

My wife and I toured a Jayco factory when we were looking for our new 5er. On the assembly line that day. They had supposedly had two 5th wheels of the same model going down the assembly line. The only thing that you could say about them was that the same furniture, outside paint scheme and model number was being used!

The mechanicals such as wiring, plumbing and the heat system components were all routed differently. This all depended on the skill of the assembler and what time of day the trailer was built.

It was a shock since were I worked, the manufacture had to have drawings and schematics for everything. But the company did not build one off models!
__________________
Jim W.
2016 34RL CC; 2008 Ram Mega Cab 2500HD, 6.7L, 68RFE 6 speed, 4X4, Smarty S67, TDR 135K+miles
Jim34RL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 01:15 PM   #6
Paul & Dianne
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: NH
Posts: 69
The sad part is that most of the mechanicals for a given model are the same. And, even across different floor plans, there is a good deal of commonality in the plumbing and wiring. The mfgrs depend on that I guess to get them built with a minimum of design and a few experienced assemblers. Works ok as long as the experienced assemblers are there.

I have rewired my AC panel, as after 20+ years in industry I couldn’t take the rats nest that showed up from the factory. Aside from that, though, most of the RV looks pretty good. The assembly of the unit seems very good, the wiring and plumbing OK although not great. So far so good, we’ll see how the next three months in FL go. The counter receptacles are making me crazy, toaster oven and Keurig and fridge kicking on trips the breaker. Well, I can fix it. Hm. Maybe add a new sub panel... 😄.
__________________
2019 Rockwood 8299BS
2019 F350 Lariat 6.7 CC SRW
ThruHiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 01:23 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 104
Dynamax is the only one that I know that has ever shared the drawings. The General Manager has posted several of the electrical drawings for units and for the piping. I have not ever heard of any of the other divisions doing this.
__________________
2017 Dynaquest 37RB
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 01:54 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: British Columbia Canada
Posts: 401
Can you imagine an airplane being built the way they build RVs? Now that there is scary.
__________________
2017 FR3 28 DS
cariboo camper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 01:57 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
ImQAJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 25
Quick Question, are P&ID drawing similar to PIE (production illustration engineer) drawing. Retired Boeing QA inspector here, we used PIE drawing to figure out proper wire routing + hyd routing and equipment location. Then engineering dwg for specific installation of said build and customer variability.
ImQAJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 02:35 PM   #10
New to RV Life - 22RR
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImQAJack View Post
Quick Question, are P&ID drawing similar to PIE (production illustration engineer) drawing. Retired Boeing QA inspector here, we used PIE drawing to figure out proper wire routing + hyd routing and equipment location. Then engineering dwg for specific installation of said build and customer variability.
The P&ID doesn't necessarily show the routing or relative locations of each device all though location is often noted. The P&ID is basically a schematic that shows all interconnections between devices. Mostly in block diagram form. Usually separated for electrical and mechanical systems.

An illustration drawing would probably be better. For example, I'd love to know what's under the floor in the areas I need to drill for mounting a wheel chock or adding tie downs.

The comments about the mfg process are not surprising. Sounds like you got to peel things back and draw up it up yourself.
kenny55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 02:39 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
ImQAJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 25
cariboo camper
Your absolutely correct it would be scary. With all the comments about FOD *Foreign Object Damage) left behind coughing or jamming things. i was surprised by the dealer shop mgr couldn't tell me what inline fuses attached to battery go to.
ImQAJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 04:45 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 38
I have had my trailer for 4 1/2 years now and just realized or had forgotten what the bottom DC fuse on the block protects...T/H = tank heaters. A/1 or A/L is the relays for the air conditioner. Overhead lighting is fed by various fuses following no discernible logic. “Porch” covers scare, sink, & porch lights, water heater ignition, water pump and awning. And they pulled power for the CO/Propane detector off the fridge control board. When the furnace runs that voltage drops well below critical for the detector so we got chronic low voltage alarms many mornings. I ran a new wire direct from the resettable breaker near the battery to have more stable voltage at the detector. We haven’t been camping with the new circuit in place but a driveway test looks promising.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	E05747DF-701C-41A5-AF7F-88C674A5C5AA.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	508.4 KB
ID:	220459  
2015 Flagstaff 21DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 07:46 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NE Wyoming
Posts: 100
ThruHiker (post #3) has it right. I am a retired Instrument and Controls Tech and my 5er is wired and plumbed by wizards. It is magical that anything works. Labeling and wiring destinations do not match. Plumbing was not connected (fixed under warrantee) etc. The dealer has gray hair from the misdeeds from the factory. The high end motor homes seem more organized, but no P&IDs to be found there either.
Grumpy7159 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 08:36 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Opelousas, LA
Posts: 158
This may have already been mentioned in the forums. I had my phone out the other day and was going to google something else and the home page popped up with articles. One of them was about the RV industry and their woes. In the article it was mentioned that the industry lacks skilled workers and that there was an RV institute being formed to train folks. The only thing I thought of would RV dealers actually spend the money to send their people to it.
__________________

__________________
2020 Cedar Creek 38DBRK 5'r
2020 Chevy 2500HD Duramax 4X4
jimla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.


×