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Old 06-14-2021, 09:28 PM   #1
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Something's Moving?

This season is straight out of Danté's basement.
Arrived at Happy Holidays CG in Cherokee last weekend after an uneventful trip--so we thought.
EZGO gas cart in the 'garage' still cinched down. Nothing falling out of cabinets, or signs of problems related to shaking.
That said, there was sawdust along the garage wall in both sides, and refrigerator side panel was bucked out as if the roof was bouncing.
That fridge panel now offers a lighted flame inside with an gas golf cart also inside. I'd guess the cart is 700 lbs...or prox thereof.
Long story short, I believe the garage wall is all that both supports, and prevents racking of the roof, which has no center support aft of the bedroom.
The ceiling is about 8' high. Tall inside.
The slide still works normally.
The camper is a '19 Vengeance Rogue 31V. Bought new, stored indoors. Walls and roof are not buckled (yet). Very little use with the covid thing last year.
I'm thinking the garage wall needs to be accessed from the garage side and a proper wall built. Staples are coming out. The factory wall is not a solid item.
My concern relates to creating a solid wall structure, and then transmitting unknown forces to other structures?
Obviously, this isn't acceptable as is.
Golf cart has not hit the wall. It does not move around at all. Ramp door is good. Easy open and square in the frame.
The roof mounted kitchen cabs are not pulling away from the ceiling. The fridge cab isn't pulling away from the garage wall, and the fridge proper is still anchored with no indication of shifting. The fridge panel is supposed to be a sealed item and will again be so soon.
Sorry for the epistle! I like the camper. It does what I want (mostly) and is roomy. The quality could be a bit better...?
One other thing re the garage--the camper has the overhead garage queen bed and side seating installed. Nothing else with weight in the garage. I'm considering removing the overhead bed. Wish to keep the side seating. They can be rested on the floor. I always tow with them low. The overhead bed cannot be lowered due to the golf cart.
Any opinions or thoughts will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.

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Old 06-15-2021, 08:43 AM   #2
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the garage wall may be the problem with that said have you considered that the frame may be flexing and not the roof? Something you might try is take very accurate measurements at several locations of the frame to storage area floor and then remove the cart and measure at the same locations again. Just something to consider.
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Old 06-15-2021, 12:00 PM   #3
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Agreed. Inspect the frame.

Do you have weights with you fully loaded up?
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaDog View Post
the garage wall may be the problem with that said have you considered that the frame may be flexing and not the roof? Something you might try is take very accurate measurements at several locations of the frame to storage area floor and then remove the cart and measure at the same locations again. Just something to consider.
Thanks! Interesting thought. I'll check the dimensions with and without the cart.
I believe that there is some change at the rear corner jacks after unloading the golf cart. Not much, but enough to unload the levelers. As you suggest, the result would be similar...?
Garage forward shows no indication of stresses.
There are no other heavy items in the garage, and the 30 gallon fuel tank has never been used. All junk goes into the truck bed. That said, the seat ensemble probably equals the golf cart in weight? The seats and rear bed definitely add to the garage area flex weight.
The sawdust problem has been present with every trip from new, regardless of the presence of the golf cart. The cart travels half of our trips. Sawdust along the garage wall and beneath the range hood. Figured it was "built in" and not an issue for the range hood. Obviously, the garage wall is failing (has failed). Only the top wall area shows damage. The sides of the garage wall are clean and appear intact for now.
The garage wall failure could cause what I'm seeing as flexing. If the wall were solid, frame flex would be inhibited, to some degree, by the 'bridge' effect. The trailer is 12' plus tall. The box (8' high) is relatively rigid due to its size. As stated, the sidewalls and roof show no signs of flexing....yet.
All flexing is right above the axles, which are biased about two feet to the rear of the trailer.
We have a large area of flat concrete and measuring up will be easy.
Thanks again!
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
Agreed. Inspect the frame.

Do you have weights with you fully loaded up?
Yes. Weights are below max. I travel with empty black and grey and prox to 20 gallons max in fresh tank. We don't "collect" crap that adds weight. All extraneous things such as dog kennel fence, popup, extra chairs, tools, ad infinitum, ride in the truck bed. 1 ton trucks are good for this. I might add that the upper shelves in the kitchen have only lightweight items, no canned or bottled goods. And, the rear levelers are always extended when loading/unloading the cart.
The only thing in the garage, other than the cart, is an upright bass (25 lbs), and the built-in seat/overhead bed ensemble. The golf cart doesn't have heavy rear seating. Just a very light aluminum box. No fuel in the camper fuel tank.
Weights are:
Axles: 9970
Tongue: 1110
Above is with the cart.
No unloaded weights. Only concerned with loaded conditions.
Loading the cart has no discernable effect on the truck ride height. The chains on the hitch feel the same when hooking up and everything's level. The cart likely takes a few pounds off the tongue. Still pulls very well. Click image for larger version

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Old 06-15-2021, 10:51 PM   #6
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Should add that I'll definitely be looking carefully at the frame, especially the area prox to the garage wall.
Difficult to visualize the interior floor joint. The left floor is all slide out (problem?), and curb side's all cabinetry with several holes at floor level for HW heater and fridge.
Thanks much for the input!
Definitely see an improved garage wall in my future. And aircraft quality wall...light, but strong.
Our selling dealer is booked up solid thru August. Seem good guys...they cannot hire quality help. Bad situation. I see my winter project taking shape. Plan to lose the overhead garage bed while I'm modifying.
I'll post the process and outcome. Also post any decisions failures the turn up.
All opinions welcome, even negative.
Thanks again!
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Old 06-16-2021, 11:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHERE View Post
Yes. Weights are below max.

Weights are:
Axles: 9970
Tongue: 1110
Above is with the cart.
If my Google searches are correct, your GVWR is 11,450 lbs. You're running at like 11,080 lbs.

Definitely under, so that's good. I've only seen frame failures where the people were at/over the GVWR (the "at" part is what's so scary with this crap).
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:53 PM   #8
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In a structure like a Toy Hauler, the rear door acts like a "shear wall" to prevent racking at the end.

How well secured is the rear door when up and locked? Any gaps at the door edges may well allow more movement than desired.

I'd also check the latches to make sure they are holding the door as secure as possible.

FWIW I've seen a lot of trailers with ramp/doors that use a latch system like this. When door is up and latch secure, the door is held tightly against the "jam" by locking cams on the end. Little or no chance of any racking movement. Here's one example:

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Old 06-16-2021, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
In a structure like a Toy Hauler, the rear door acts like a "shear wall" to prevent racking at the end.

How well secured is the rear door when up and locked? Any gaps at the door edges may well allow more movement than desired.

I'd also check the latches to make sure they are holding the door as secure as possible.

FWIW I've seen a lot of trailers with ramp/doors that use a latch system like this. When door is up and latch secure, the door is held tightly against the "jam" by locking cams on the end. Little or no chance of any racking movement. Here's one example:

Mine functions similarly. Has a pair of big truck side cam locks. The ramp upper corners have nylon slugs the center the door at the top. Opens and closes well. Square in the frame. No signs of abnormal movement. No leaks.
Even at my extreme age and 150 lbs, the ramp is easy to deploy and return.
The previous suggestion of frame flex altering the floor contour seems most plausible. That would account for the fridge panel bucking outward also. If the garage wall is failing (and it is), that would allow the floor to ceiling dimension to change during axle excursions.
I live in NC and the roads here are a freaking disaster. I-40 and I-26, I-77 and I-85. I-485 are all about useless.
I spent 6 hours driving from Cherokee to Charlotte last weekend. Unbelievable. Two wrecks jammed up I-40, and just after exiting 321 onto I-85 another wreck. The I-40 wrecks were related to R lane closure.
BTW, highly recommend Happy Holiday RV Village. Nice big sites and clean, well maintained park. Enjoyed our stay.

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Old 06-16-2021, 08:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
If my Google searches are correct, your GVWR is 11,450 lbs. You're running at like 11,080 lbs.



Definitely under, so that's good. I've only seen frame failures where the people were at/over the GVWR (the "at" part is what's so scary with this crap).
Correct. Your numbers are what I have.
Believe the garage wall is the problem. We have two more trips bought and paid for. After that, out comes the garage-side paneling. That'll be interesting.
I have lightweight panel woodworking experience with aircraft projects and believe that a similarly dimensioned, but stronger, bulkhead can be constructed. Attaching to existing roof structures will require thought...?
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:46 AM   #11
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As ependydad notes, the factory setup often is unable to safely perform within the design specs.
Ask me about my 15" factory tires and wheels....? After a weekend disaster blowout, and spending a day scavenging any sort of spare tire, I ordered 16" wheels and Goodyears and a trailer TST trailer tire pressure monitor. I like the tire monitor. Works great.
My spare ended up being a Chevy truck rim with a new matching tire. I wouldn't move without a spare.
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:49 PM   #12
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For S&Gs, found out that the Happijac system of beds, seating, and drive rails adds 900 lbs to the aft end of a toy hauler.
Gotta go. That's same as having 2 gas golf carts in the garage.
One would think that the system is an either-or situation. Either seating, or 'toys'...not both.
The trailer isn't "overloaded" based on gross weights, but the aft weight is incompatible with level flight. CG is 8' forward of ramp.
No wonder the garage wall is disintegrating!
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