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Old 05-05-2020, 08:05 AM   #61
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Great info

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Originally Posted by Tom48 View Post
Our FR has an inspection plate in front of the shower. Open it and on ours you see a big hole in the floor where the shower sewer trap comes up to the shower pan. The home is way bigger than needed and you can see the layers of the floor.

Also from about the first month our floor, which seems to be a lamination of two thin boards making a foam sandwich. Anyway, after month one it started squeezing under foot. Then moving. Then FR paid a repair station seven shop hours to open the bottom, remove a tank and put new screws through frame to tighten up the floor.

End of long story it squeeks as bad as ever and now 3 1/2 yrs later it moves under foot-- enough the I CAN TELL. MORAL OF STORY IT MIGHT NOT BE AS BAD AS YOU FEAR.

Also in front of slide it may have to be removed and replaced to avoid slide interference, but as some have said, first things first. Heat it up, dehumidifier it and then see.

Best of luck and congrats on tackling this. I recommend YouTube search for all of this. Three pros I have learned from are RV Education 101, AZ Expert, and My RV Works, Inc. And a ton of serious DIYers who mostly live in em full time and deal with this stuff.
Really appreciate that. I will do some further look see. The more I study this rv, the more I learn. In the past, I had the money to just say "here, fix it!" Not anymore. These forums and YouTube are a godsend and I have a little more time on my hands to lurn " " ... The unit is dry as for 2 years it has sat covered in a barn. I resealed the roof with no signs of water after heavy rains.

As for people who live in these, there is a NY Times article I posted which talks about how 1 million currently (full time rv'ers) can not get any essential services, water, dumping. I'm going to create a separate thread on this. I don't know how things are going to go down economically, but I want this rv livable. If you know what I mean. Being preventative, not reactionary.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:53 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richminaya View Post
To get to my valves, one has to remove (unscrew) panels in the bottom storage area and I am positive that was not done. So I'm going to go ahead and replace the anode and the electric heater element (even though I hear it heating water in the tank.

The only other consideration I can come up with since cold water is flowing is that there must be a clog or plug in the hot water line (doesn't work in kitchen or bath). Any other ideas? So far, every issue I have gone through and fixed has come down to gunk in the water line (water pump filter), bugs at the fridge jamming gas from getting to the burner, an assinine reversal of polarity at battery (ugh) and fixing fuses. Although time consuming, I've been pretty lucky so far. It dawns on me - hey! you have to maintain these things!!!

But why no hot water? I have to wait until parts come in and I am replacing the fresh water filter system, and the 2 previous mentioned items - then I can cross fingers and try again!
Rich, I don't think you've ever mentioned how many valves your WH has. They've come up with a number of ways to plumb these things. The most common had 3 "two-way" valves, but some have one or two "3-way valves." I've attached a pic for your use. Good luck.
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File Type: pdf Byass valve arrangements.pdf (165.4 KB, 16 views)
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:00 AM   #63
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Rich, if you winterized it yourself and the bypass was not closed for the water heater it would have required the normal amount of anti-freeze (1 to 2 gallons) plus 6 gallons in the water heater. I don't winterize so somebody please correct me if I am providing incorrect information here.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:20 PM   #64
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Valves

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Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
Rich, I don't think you've ever mentioned how many valves your WH has. They've come up with a number of ways to plumb these things. The most common had 3 "two-way" valves, but some have one or two "3-way valves." I've attached a pic for your use. Good luck.
.

Hi. First, I had never turned them off when I winterized; I just flooded the entire system with water and pink antifreeze. I have now learned that in the future, I should. There are only two - that I have found - over by the water intake. If there are valves behind the water heater, I have not yet found a way to get to them, but that will be on my list.

I'm waiting for a new inline filter and other parts. Is it possible one of these 'out-of-sight' valves just gunked up? For the filter, water was not flowing until I cleaned the "trap," then voila.

Temps dropped back into the 30's (god bless michigan) so it was a good time to break and get the parts.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by richminaya View Post
.

Hi. First, I had never turned them off when I winterized; I just flooded the entire system with water and pink antifreeze. I have now learned that in the future, I should. There are only two - that I have found - over by the water intake. If there are valves behind the water heater, I have not yet found a way to get to them, but that will be on my list.

I'm waiting for a new inline filter and other parts. Is it possible one of these 'out-of-sight' valves just gunked up? For the filter, water was not flowing until I cleaned the "trap," then voila.

Temps dropped back into the 30's (god bless michigan) so it was a good time to break and get the parts.
Yeah, you'll need to access the back of the WH to get to the bypass valves. There's usually a screwed-in panel, or sometimes something that looks like a door, but may have 2 hinges on one side and one hinge on the other; unscrew the single hinge and it will open like a cabinet door. If it's under a bed, you'll have to remove the mattress and raise the plywood that's under the mattress.

Your problem is strange if you've never touched the valves before. I've never heard of a valve gunking up, but who knows? Sometime faucets do get "crap" in them but it's usually stuff that got into the FW tank during manufacture. I'd think on a 2013 model, that stuff would all be flushed out by now.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:32 PM   #66
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Valvey Feeling

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Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
Yeah, you'll need to access the back of the WH to get to the bypass valves. Your problem is strange if you've never touched the valves before. I've never heard of a valve gunking up, but who knows?
That's something I can work on even is snow showers show up this week. Never pulled the tank, but if I can't get behind it, I will work on that.

When I started this adventure, I had the wires bass-ackwards at the battery. It's amazing what you can learn if you study this forum and watch YouTube. The goal is - - - self-reliance as much as possible. And working tighter with the rv communty!
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:41 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richminaya View Post
.

Hi. First, I had never turned them off when I winterized; I just flooded the entire system with water and pink antifreeze. I have now learned that in the future, I should. There are only two - that I have found - over by the water intake. If there are valves behind the water heater, I have not yet found a way to get to them, but that will be on my list.

I'm waiting for a new inline filter and other parts. Is it possible one of these 'out-of-sight' valves just gunked up? For the filter, water was not flowing until I cleaned the "trap," then voila.

Temps dropped back into the 30's (god bless michigan) so it was a good time to break and get the parts.
I know you said you you haven't turned them because you don't see them or have found a way to get to them... but... there is... somewhere. They will be behind the water heater on the inside. Some models have them located in the wet bay. (if equipped)

Also... if you flooded the system with antifreeze WITHOUT putting the water heater in bypass you likely would have needed at least 7 gallons of antifreeze. Six to FILL the water heater and then another gallon or so for the rest of the plumbing.

You also said a few times you were finally able to remove the 'bolt' (your words) on the water heater that we all now know was the drain plug/anode rod. If you had not turned the bypass valves and truly flooded the water heater with antifreeze, when you removed the anode, pink should have flowed from the drain/anode. You've never mentioned that.

Also you mentioned in a post that all the valves you have found are 'open'.

To use the water heater normally and/or to use it in bypass operation, one (or more) of the valves has to close depending on normal or winterization.

Is there any way for you to post a photo of the valves you describe that are by your water intake? And I'm not sure I understand what that is either?

As rockfordroo has indicated, they use several different configurations for water heater bypass. We really need to determine what your is.

One more thing... you've mentioned no water comes out any hot tap. (shower, sink, etc.) Is that correct or is there water coming out and it is cold? I forget exactly what the scenario is.

How about at the hot, low point drain line? Nothing to 'gunk up' there.

Also... could you better explain what you meant when you 'cleaned the trap' on the water filter? That terminology doesn't make sense when discussing water filters.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:59 PM   #68
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Water heater and more

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Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
I know you said you you haven't turned them because you don't see them or have found a way to get to them... but... there is... somewhere. They will be behind the water heater on the inside. Some models have them located in the wet bay. (if equipped)

Also... if you flooded the system with antifreeze WITHOUT putting the water heater in bypass you likely would have needed at least 7 gallons of antifreeze. Six to FILL the water heater and then another gallon or so for the rest of the plumbing.

You also said a few times you were finally able to remove the 'bolt' (your words) on the water heater that we all now know was the drain plug/anode rod. If you had not turned the bypass valves and truly flooded the water heater with antifreeze, when you removed the anode, pink should have flowed from the drain/anode. You've never mentioned that.

Also you mentioned in a post that all the valves you have found are 'open'.

To bypass the water heater normally and/or to use it in bypass operation, one (or more) of the valves has to close depending on normal or winterization.

Is there any way for you to post a photo of the valves you describe that are by your water intake? And I'm not sure I understand what that is either?

As rockfordroo has indicated, they use several different configurations for water heater bypass. We really need to determine what your is.

One more thing... you've mentioned no water comes out any hot tap. (shower, sink, etc.) Is that correct or is there water coming out and it is cold? I forget exactly what the scenario is.

How about at the hot, low point drain line?

Also... could you better explain what you meant when you 'cleaned the trap' on the water filter? That terminology doesn't make sense when discussing water filters.
Thanks - respond to each

AMOUNT OF ANTI-FREEZE I don't recall how many gallons of anti-freeze I used, but it was a fair amount and I have not found any leaky joints (yet). I had left the release valve in open (sry can't remember name) for water expansion in freezing temps.

ANODE Yes, I now know what that is. The treated pink water and gunk did come floating out freely and I intend to rinse it better with a wand as per tips on YouTube. It was in perfect condition, so I guess I will keep the pair I ordered now on standby for the future.

VALVES I know now for the future. It will be about a week until I get parts and then I will clean update photos. But I never touched them.

WATER FLOW Cold came out of both kitchen and bath (did not check toilet nor the outside shower nor drain). Near where the KW1 filter (screw on system), there was junk in the line that once cleared, allowed cold water to move freely. Good there. Strange, the filter had nothing inside it; not evidence of any filtration material, filters, etc. I wonder if it rotted over 5 years. It had the in and out connecters and then just a hollow container which makes no sense for filtration. Anyway, that is all tore apart until stuff comes in the little truck. So when I say trap, there is a little scream around the hose connector that I believe was on the in or out part of the "filter" and when I removed it all, water flowed.

Still lurning terminology. I will be able to update the hot water situation next week.

Right now, it's back to the last remaining item, the soft spots on the floor
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Old 05-05-2020, 02:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
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Thanks - respond to each

AMOUNT OF ANTI-FREEZE I don't recall how many gallons of anti-freeze I used, but it was a fair amount and I have not found any leaky joints (yet). I had left the release valve in open (sry can't remember name) for water expansion in freezing temps.

ANODE Yes, I now know what that is. The treated pink water and gunk did come floating out freely and I intend to rinse it better with a wand as per tips on YouTube. It was in perfect condition, so I guess I will keep the pair I ordered now on standby for the future.

VALVES I know now for the future. It will be about a week until I get parts and then I will clean update photos. But I never touched them.

WATER FLOW Cold came out of both kitchen and bath (did not check toilet nor the outside shower nor drain). Near where the KW1 filter (screw on system), there was junk in the line that once cleared, allowed cold water to move freely. Good there. Strange, the filter had nothing inside it; not evidence of any filtration material, filters, etc. I wonder if it rotted over 5 years. It had the in and out connecters and then just a hollow container which makes no sense for filtration. Anyway, that is all tore apart until stuff comes in the little truck. So when I say trap, there is a little scream around the hose connector that I believe was on the in or out part of the "filter" and when I removed it all, water flowed.

Still lurning terminology. I will be able to update the hot water situation next week.

Right now, it's back to the last remaining item, the soft spots on the floor
release valve - the T & P valve, I mean. I also left faucets open. Maybe I did something right there.
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Old 05-05-2020, 03:31 PM   #70
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[QUOTE=richminaya;2318843]release valve - the T & P valve, I mean. I also left faucets open. Maybe I did something right there.[/QUOTE

]A GOOD PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS..

Thanks for responding to everyone's attempt to help you. it's much more satisfying to have a dialogue than have some poor soul ask a question then get 30 answers and we never hear from him again.

a picture of your water Bay indoor water hookups and a picture of the filter location where you found the filter housing with no filter core in it, would all give us a better understanding and whether or not we give you better help it'll make us feel better to know what you're seeing.

Continued good luck you're becoming quite the RV tech.
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Old 05-05-2020, 03:42 PM   #71
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If you have a FR1/KW1 filter as in the pic below, the filter elements are rather expensive.


Name:   FR1 filter pic.jpg
Views: 171
Size:  4.1 KB

So some people just leave them out and use a blue Camco filter on their city water lines as on mine below:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Filter removed.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	329.9 KB
ID:	228455

Also, there are a LOT of threads and posts here about the KW1 filter cracking and flooding trailers. So you may want to remove it. In my case, I was able to replace it with a 1/2" coupler from Home Depot.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	half inch DURA coupling.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	34.8 KB
ID:	228456   Click image for larger version

Name:	Filter replacement coupling.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	259.5 KB
ID:	228457  
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:28 PM   #72
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Pictures

[QUOTE=Tom48;2318901]
Quote:
Originally Posted by richminaya View Post
release valve - the T & P valve, I mean. I also left faucets open. Maybe I did something right there.[/QUOTE

]A GOOD PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS..

Thanks for responding to everyone's attempt to help you. it's much more satisfying to have a dialogue than have some poor soul ask a question then get 30 answers and we never hear from him again.

a picture of your water Bay indoor water hookups and a picture of the filter location where you found the filter housing with no filter core in it, would all give us a better understanding and whether or not we give you better help it'll make us feel better to know what you're seeing.

Continued good luck you're becoming quite the RV tech.
Much appreciated - thanks to you guys. I always will respond. Just like email. To not respond to someones efforts is rude and cad-ish.

Pictures! I failed to mention that I have an hour round trip to get from Lansing out to where the RV is. I definitely will get some pics uploaded when I get back out there. I came back home as temperatures are dropping back into freezing levels at night - and snow showers forecast for Friday. If I had this thing working, I'd be down south. Hmmm. Then again, where the hell are our year round travelers permitted to even stay? Do you have to rent someone's driveway?
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:32 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
If you have a FR1/KW1 filter as in the pic below, the filter elements are rather expensive.

Attachment 228454

So some people just leave them out and use a blue Camco filter on their city water lines as on mine below:

Attachment 228455

Also, there are a LOT of threads and posts here about the KW1 filter cracking and flooding trailers. So you may want to remove it. In my case, I was able to replace it with a 1/2" coupler from Home Depot.
KW1 is GONE. Thanks to other threads I came to the conclusion that camco was a better option at a better price. What is weird is that there was NOTHING inside the container? How does that work, as far as filtering? Unless, as I posted earlier, it crumbled.

I'll have to get a couple hoses or adapter to put the new unit in after I flush clean all the lines. Hopefully next week.
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:55 PM   #74
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Quote:
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KW1 is GONE. Thanks to other threads I came to the conclusion that camco was a better option at a better price. What is weird is that there was NOTHING inside the container? How does that work, as far as filtering? Unless, as I posted earlier, it crumbled.



I'll have to get a couple hoses or adapter to put the new unit in after I flush clean all the lines. Hopefully next week.
The factory does not insert the cartridge.
They don't because units are often winterized at the factory with antifreeze so installing the cartridge would ruin it.

It comes from the factory with the cartridge in a drawer or cabinet. It is the dealers responsibility to install it during their PDI. Many dealers do not do this for whatever silly reason.
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:57 PM   #75
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[QUOTE=richminaya;2318843]release valve - the T & P valve, I mean. I also left faucets open. Maybe I did something right there.[/QUOTE

]A GOOD PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS..

Thanks for responding to everyone's attempt to help you. it's much more satisfying to have a dialogue than have some poor soul ask a question then get 30 answers and we never hear from him again.

a picture of your water Bay indoor water hookups and a picture of the filter location where you found the filter housing with no filter core in it, would all give us a better understanding and whether or not we give you better help it'll make us feel better to know what you're seeing.

Continued good luck you're becoming quite the RV tech.
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:04 PM   #76
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The factory does not insert the cartridge.
They don't because units are often winterized at the factory with antifreeze so installing the cartridge would ruin it.

It comes from the factory with the cartridge in a drawer or cabinet. It is the dealers responsibility to install it during their PDI. Many dealers do not do this for whatever silly reason.
Just like they did not catch the soft floor when I bought it, they also never put in a cartridge.

Live and learn and protect your pocket book.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:29 AM   #77
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OP, you really really have come a long way with your self-repairs on your rig. You should be very proud of yourself, congratulations! And, congratulations on beating cancer!!!

One reason that your water pump runs and then shuts off is because that's how it works. Once the waterlines are pressurized the pump shuts off. Then when you use a faucet or the toilet you should hear the pump briefly while it re-pressurizes the waterline. If you leave the water pump turned on and you are not using any water, like during the overnight, and you hear the pump cycle on briefly every so often, then you'll know you have a water leak somewhere, that's why the pump is cycling on and off.

I'm also a big fan of Eternabond tape. Where you would use it on your roof is the seams at the front and rear caps or joints where the vertical front and back join the roof section. Also, work incredibly around roof openings such as your skylight that was leaking. I used it on my 2000 motorhome front seam and again on my 2011 motorhomes rear cap seam. Clean out the old Dicor as much as possible and lay a smooth piece of Eternabond, without gapping, and using a wallpapering seam roller to press and seal. Clean bulletproof seam and seal.

Count me in as believing that if you are not getting water out of the hot tank, then somewhere there is a bypass turned to winter. Just explore and looking at any place inside the rig where there may be access to the back side of the tank. Also look underneath your rig for screw cap porthole type access, that is where I got to mine on my 2011 Georgetown.

Good luck and post some pics of your rig when it warms up in Michigan, one of our favorite places to visit with our RV.
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Old 05-07-2020, 10:40 AM   #78
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hi Sherm and Barb

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OP, you really really have come a long way with your self-repairs on your rig. You should be very proud of yourself, congratulations! And, congratulations on beating cancer!!!

One reason that your water pump runs and then shuts off is because that's how it works. Once the waterlines are pressurized the pump shuts off. Then when you use a faucet or the toilet you should hear the pump briefly while it re-pressurizes the waterline. If you leave the water pump turned on and you are not using any water, like during the overnight, and you hear the pump cycle on briefly every so often, then you'll know you have a water leak somewhere, that's why the pump is cycling on and off.

I'm also a big fan of Eternabond tape. Where you would use it on your roof is the seams at the front and rear caps or joints where the vertical front and back join the roof section. Also, work incredibly around roof openings such as your skylight that was leaking. I used it on my 2000 motorhome front seam and again on my 2011 motorhomes rear cap seam. Clean out the old Dicor as much as possible and lay a smooth piece of Eternabond, without gapping, and using a wallpapering seam roller to press and seal. Clean bulletproof seam and seal.

Count me in as believing that if you are not getting water out of the hot tank, then somewhere there is a bypass turned to winter. Just explore and looking at any place inside the rig where there may be access to the back side of the tank. Also look underneath your rig for screw cap porthole type access, that is where I got to mine on my 2011 Georgetown.

Good luck and post some pics of your rig when it warms up in Michigan, one of our favorite places to visit with our RV.
You are so gracious. I am really looking forward to spending time out venturing about more as I think priorities have changed a lot - kind of like after 9/11.

The cold water was free flowing after I got the clog out of the line and, you bet, next on the list is more digging around once new filter, anode, element all come in. I'll keep ya posted!!
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:09 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherman12 View Post
OP, you really really have come a long way with your self-repairs on your rig. You should be very proud of yourself, congratulations! And, congratulations on beating cancer!!!

One reason that your water pump runs and then shuts off is because that's how it works. Once the waterlines are pressurized the pump shuts off. Then when you use a faucet or the toilet you should hear the pump briefly while it re-pressurizes the waterline. If you leave the water pump turned on and you are not using any water, like during the overnight, and you hear the pump cycle on briefly every so often, then you'll know you have a water leak somewhere, that's why the pump is cycling on and off.

I'm also a big fan of Eternabond tape. Where you would use it on your roof is the seams at the front and rear caps or joints where the vertical front and back join the roof section. Also, work incredibly around roof openings such as your skylight that was leaking. I used it on my 2000 motorhome front seam and again on my 2011 motorhomes rear cap seam. Clean out the old Dicor as much as possible and lay a smooth piece of Eternabond, without gapping, and using a wallpapering seam roller to press and seal. Clean bulletproof seam and seal.

Count me in as believing that if you are not getting water out of the hot tank, then somewhere there is a bypass turned to winter. Just explore and looking at any place inside the rig where there may be access to the back side of the tank. Also look underneath your rig for screw cap porthole type access, that is where I got to mine on my 2011 Georgetown.

Good luck and post some pics of your rig when it warms up in Michigan, one of our favorite places to visit with our RV.
Just to expand on the above emboldened statement as I believe the OP is (and maybe others too) doing a good job of reading and learning...

Yes... you can have a small leak in the plumbing system somewhere if overnight you hear the pump cycle a time or two when you've actually used no water... but... that same scenario can occur if the pump is leaking INTERNALLY back past the pump's built-in check valve.

This built in check valve is designed to keep city water from backflowing through the inside of the pump and into the fresh water tank when connected to city water.

If the check valve has an ever so SLIGHT leak whenever you are NOT connected to city water, the pressure within the pump's chamber slowly decreases (from the water within the pump head backflowing through the internal check valve) and the pump's pressure switch will call for the pump to cycle and run a few seconds to rebuild pressure.

Now... if the pump's internal check valve has MORE THAN a slight leak... and when you ARE connected to city water, the backflow of water will fill the fresh water tank and you'll have water running out on the ground from either the overflow or the gravity fill port. This is a situation that certainly needs addressed by either rebuilding the pump or the installation of an inline check valve.

My point... just because you hear the pump cycle once or twice overnight does not necessarily mean you have an EXTERNAL water leak somewhere in the plumbing.

And with that said... I've had two R/Vs that have exhibited this once or twice running of the pump overnight. I had the pump apart on both of them checking it over and never cured it. I never found any external leak either. I suppose I could have installed an inline check (on the suction side of the pump as it would do no good in this scenario on the discharge side) but because I had no external leaks and the fresh tank never filled when using city water, we simply lived with it. No big deal.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:23 AM   #80
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
Just to expand on the above emboldened statement as I believe the OP is (and maybe others too) doing a good job of reading and learning...

Yes... you can have a small leak in the plumbing system somewhere if overnight you hear the pump cycle a time or two when you've actually used no water... but... that same scenario can occur if the pump is leaking INTERNALLY back past the pump's built-in check valve.

This built in check valve is designed to keep city water from backflowing through the inside of the pump and into the fresh water tank when connected to city water.

If the check valve has an ever so SLIGHT leak whenever you are NOT connected to city water, the pressure within the pump's chamber slowly decreases (from the water within the pump head backflowing through the internal check valve) and the pump's pressure switch will call for the pump to cycle and run a few seconds to rebuild pressure.

Now... if the pump's internal check valve has MORE THAN a slight leak... and when you ARE connected to city water, the backflow of water will fill the fresh water tank and you'll have water running out on the ground from either the overflow or the gravity fill port. This is a situation that certainly needs addressed by either rebuilding the pump or the installation of an inline check valve.

My point... just because you hear the pump cycle once or twice overnight does not necessarily mean you have an EXTERNAL water leak somewhere in the plumbing.

And with that said... I've had two R/Vs that have exhibited this once or twice running of the pump overnight. I had the pump apart on both of them checking it over and never cured it. I never found any external leak either. I suppose I could have installed an inline check (on the suction side of the pump as it would do no good in this scenario on the discharge side) but because I had no external leaks and the fresh tank never filled when using city water, we simply lived with it. No big deal.
Never noticed that issue and right now all is torn apart. Call me overly cautious, but most of the time at night, I just kept the water pump turned off.

Hopefully Amazon will have my parts here sooner than later so I can pick this back up!
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