Using Camper in driveway el. power ? A/C

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by gunther1369

so this is my 1st camper with A/C, I'm assuming that I need to put a 30 amp outlet and fuse to run the a/c not just using a extension cord ?
a/c is a 13500 btu

2019 Gray Wolf 20RDSE

As others have noted, it is not necessarily always advisable to run the A/C off of a 15 amp outlet.



This link may help explain that part:


Basic RV Electricity - RV Information (RV Maintenance)


Besides the extension cord you stated, another reason not to do such is there also may be other things in your house that are running on that same 15 amp circuit breaker/circuit, thus you don't even really have 15 amps available to the RV.


You may want to check the RV's electrical distribution panel inside the RV. Look at what size circuit breaker the air conditioner is on there, and that should tell you that you would want at least that much from your house....and remember that the one in your RV is a dedicated circuit, meaning that the air conditioner is the only thing on that particular circuit/circuit breaker.....unlike your house which could have other outlets/appliances utilizing the same 15 amp circuit you asked about above. Just things to consider. Hope it helps.

[bedubya]

My garage outlets are all 20 amp and when I park in front of the garage, my shore cord will reach a receptacle. I can plug in with an adapter and run my 13.5K A/C with no problem. My guess is that microwave & A/C running at the same time would pop the breaker, but I have never tried it.


I do know that I can't use my radial arm saw on the same circuit when the camper A/C is running.


My point is that if all you're doing is plugging in while packing up, you don't need to rewire if you have 20 amp where you plug in. If you are using the camper as a spare living area, you my want to upgrade to 30 amp.

[cavie]

50 amp RV service is no different than a 200 amp residential service at home. Two 200 amp legs with a shared neutral. No electrician in his lifetime every said 400 amps available. That is an RV language thing.

[Boomerweps]

When rewiring my house, any new or replaced lines were all made 12AWG. All new and replaced lines got 20AMP circuit breakers. The old 15 amp circuits commonly using 14AWG cables for lamps and vacuumed cleaners was standard, no more. 10AWG is becoming common for kitchen and garage circuits for heavy electrical usage.
A 12AWG cable supplied off a 20 amp circuit, even 50-75' with a 30amp adapter is adequate for a 13.5 AC unit with no other heavy load, like microwave, water heater, coffee maker, area heater. I shut off the AC if I reheat my coffee
Over greater distances, I learned a lot about voltage loss the hard way.
All that said, my hope is to install a TT30 receptical on my garage this summer, using 8AWG supply lines IF I can find a rental trencher. 10AWG would be barely adequate for the distance required.

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by cavie

50 amp RV service is no different than a 200 amp residential service at home. Two 200 amp legs with a shared neutral. No electrician in his lifetime every said 400 amps available. That is an RV language thing.

while I think I know what you are saying, the reality is that homes and RVs are similar when it comes to this topic, but not the same - though both share a double-pole breaker, just like in your Home's breaker box...

A home typically has, and makes several uses of, 240v Power, which is a connection between BOTH 120v legs coming into the breaker panel. These types of appliances and devices are electric WATER HEATERS, electric CLOTHES DRYERS, some models of BASEBOARD HEATERS, etc...

A 50amp RV, though, typically does NOT make use of 240v power, though it is the same incoming power supply 'type' of double-pole breaker connection. The RV's main breaker panel 'splits' these two legs of power into two different sections within the panel, and does NOT provide for any double-pole individual Breakers, or essentially any 240v appliances or devices.

Now, because of this, you could make the following assumptions, as for 'how' electrical power is framed for each type of need:

A) Homes make use of 240v power, therefore the main double-pole BREAKER size determines how 'much' power the house has, such as 200amps, even though the 200amp breaker is a double-pole variety.
Each leg itself, or side, is 200amps.

B) RVs with 50amp service panels, though, typically only use the 120v power, though there is TWO legs of this double-pole breaker power coming into the RV. Because each leg, or side, is 50amps, and both sides can make use of up to 50amps each, then, YES, the RV has usage of 100amps of power.... which is really no different than if you had two different 50amp 120v shore cords attached to the RV - you would still have 100amps of usable power.

I agree that the electrical 'terminology' here is what can confuse the average RVr, but that could also be said about the average home owner. If you ask anyone to look at their home's main breaker panel, and to tell you how much 'power' it says it has - they will typically read the NUMBER on the main double-pole breaker - such as 200. The reality, though, is that if there are no 240v appliances or devices used in this home, they, TOO, have 400amps of usable power! Those in the electrical circles just don't 'phrase' it that way, though, because that's not the acceptable way to 'technically' say how much power a breaker panel has incoming. It's accepted that they are all 240v.

Have you ever seen a home with only 120v of incoming power? Yes, they are out there, and they don't have the option of powering a 240v dryer, but any home built under current and recent codes more-than-likely will be 240v service.


Are there RVs or large motorhomes with 240v SERVICE? Yes, but they are rare, though the ones who have the 240v clothes dryer, or 240v electric stovetop, etc., will make use of the same 50amp RV service the rest of us do - the only difference is that their breaker panel does NOT split the service, but allows for double-pole breakers to use both sides of power.


NICE! enjoy ... !

[cavie]

Originally Posted by formerFR

while I think I know what you are saying, the reality is that homes and RVs are similar when it comes to this topic, but not the same - though both share a double-pole breaker, just like in your Home's breaker box...

A home typically has, and makes several uses of, 240v Power, which is a connection between BOTH 120v legs coming into the breaker panel. These types of appliances and devices are electric WATER HEATERS, electric CLOTHES DRYERS, some models of BASEBOARD HEATERS, etc...

A 50amp RV, though, typically does NOT make use of 240v power, though it is the same incoming power supply 'type' of double-pole breaker connection. The RV's main breaker panel 'splits' these two legs of power into two different sections within the panel, and does NOT provide for any double-pole individual Breakers, or essentially any 240v appliances or devices.

Now, because of this, you could make the following assumptions, as for 'how' electrical power is framed for each type of need:

A) Homes make use of 240v power, therefore the main double-pole BREAKER size determines how 'much' power the house has, such as 200amps, even though the 200amp breaker is a double-pole variety.
Each leg itself, or side, is 200amps.

B) RVs with 50amp service panels, though, typically only use the 120v power, though there is TWO legs of this double-pole breaker power coming into the RV. Because each leg, or side, is 50amps, and both sides can make use of up to 50amps each, then, YES, the RV has usage of 100amps of power.... which is really no different than if you had two different 50amp 120v shore cords attached to the RV - you would still have 100amps of usable power.

I agree that the electrical 'terminology' here is what can confuse the average RVr, but that could also be said about the average home owner. If you ask anyone to look at their home's main breaker panel, and to tell you how much 'power' it says it has - they will typically read the NUMBER on the main double-pole breaker - such as 200. The reality, though, is that if there are no 240v appliances or devices used in this home, they, TOO, have 400amps of usable power! Those in the electrical circles just don't 'phrase' it that way, though, because that's not the acceptable way to 'technically' say how much power a breaker panel has incoming. It's accepted that they are all 240v.

Have you ever seen a home with only 120v of incoming power? Yes, they are out there, and they don't have the option of powering a 240v dryer, but any home built under current and recent codes more-than-likely will be 240v service.


Are there RVs or large motorhomes with 240v SERVICE? Yes, but they are rare, though the ones who have the 240v clothes dryer, or 240v electric stovetop, etc., will make use of the same 50amp RV service the rest of us do - the only difference is that their breaker panel does NOT split the service, but allows for double-pole breakers to use both sides of power.


NICE! enjoy ... !

50 years as an electrician, 35 as a master. Presently own 2 companies.
Pretty sure I know how it works.

[itat]

I understand that RVs on the other side of the Atlantic commonly use 240V. So its only rare here in North America. Of course they’re called “Caravans” in Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

RVs (over here) have 2 sides with 50A max on each side but we call it a 50A service. At home, my 200A service has 2 sides with 100A breakers on each side. So RV and home services are named differently.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by itat

I understand that RVs on the other side of the Atlantic commonly use 240V. So its only rare here in North America. Of course they’re called “Caravans” in Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

RVs (over here) have 2 sides with 50A max on each side but we call it a 50A service. At home, my 200A service has 2 sides with 100A breakers on each side. So RV and home services are named differently.

If you have a 200 amp service you have TWO 200 amp breakers tied together.

50 amp RV service is exactly like the 200 amp service in your house.

Many new RV coaches do indeed use 240 for washer/dryer and cook tops. They are becoming more common every day. A/C will be next.

[Jakieboy]

So...wmtire...I see the electrical schematics that you published, but I am still confused. Please forgive me, I am a mechanical engineer. It is my understanding that a typical electrical generator rotates at 3600 rpm, aka 60 rps, aka 60 Hz. Does your schematic on the 50 amp circuit show that one of the 120V poles compared to "ground" appears at 0 degrees, and the other 120V pole appears at 180 degrees??

If so, I am beginning to understand.

If not, I am still confused.

Again, please excuse my ignorance. I am old now, and I have forgotten many of the things that I thought were important when I was young.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Jakie-Boy

So...wmtire...I see the electrical schematics that you published, but I am still confused. Please forgive me, I am a mechanical engineer. It is my understanding that a typical electrical generator rotates at 3600 rpm, aka 60 rps, aka 60 Hz. Does your schematic on the 50 amp circuit show that one of the 120V poles compared to "ground" appears at 0 degrees, and the other 120V pole appears at 180 degrees??

If so, I am beginning to understand.

If not, I am still confused.

Again, please excuse my ignorance. I am old now, and I have forgotten many of the things that I thought were important when I was young.

Yes, it shows as you describe. If you read the link included above the schematics in post #20, it explains the generation process. This schematic below is taken from that link, where you can see the L1 to neutral (aka 'grounded' conductor) at 0 degrees.... and L2 to neutral at 180 degrees.



Another one of my favorite RV electrical websites I usually point to a lot in many of my posts (especially when it comes on how to test outlets) is this one below. The "Basic Electric" tab there also explains as you describe. Hope it helps



http://www.myrv.us/electric/index.htm

[frankraney]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

Gonna have some really HOT wiring.

Not if you use the right size extension cord. Remember, breakers are they to protect the wiring. If you use a15 amp circuit, you need a 14 give cord, unless you go long distance, then 14. If you use correct wiring for the breaker/circuit, the wire will not get hot. The breaker will trip first, that's what it does.... Protect the wiring, by tripping. o

[cavie]

Originally Posted by frankraney

Not if you use the right size extension cord. Remember, breakers are they to protect the wiring. If you use a 15 amp circuit, you need a 14 give cord, unless you go long distance, then 14. If you use correct wiring for the breaker/circuit, the wire will not get hot. The breaker will trip first, that's what it does.... Protect the wiring, by tripping. o

Gage Auto spell?

14 Fat fingers? (12)

[bhunt2405]

We had a 30A put into the overhang on the back of our garage. With the extra cord bought to extend the regular cord, we can easily reach the camper. We leave it plugged in all the time. We then had a plug put in just inside the garage door. When we pull the camper up to the driveway to load it, I feel safe running the air if I need and get the refrigerator cooling down a day or two ahead.

[frankraney]

Originally Posted by cavie

Gage Auto spell?

14 Fat fingers? (12)

Yup........

[bedubya]

Originally Posted by aeblank

I run my ac on a normal 20a outlet plenty of times. Just don't have everything else on at the same time.

x2

[nrkmann]

Originally Posted by cavie

Sure will if you use a typical 16 ga extortion cord. I think outside the box and use nothing less then a 14 GA cord which is good for 15 amps. Most of the time I use a 12 ga good for 20 amps.

With 50' indoor/outdoor 12/3 extensions cords at less that $30 at Amazon & Home Depot why buy anything in a smaller wire size?