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Old 06-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
I suspect profit margins are very low in the RV industry, at least on 5-ers and trailers which would explain the drive to cut corners.
Unfortunately what cost cutting measures the manufacturer is making going forward for their profit is also added on at most dealers for their profit margin as well.

the same trailer for $15899 US in the states is 33899 Canadian here in Canada.
I always could not figure out how 25 yr olds could own a TT or 5-er but at 1/2 the cost... it makes sense.

I noticed that our 2012 Salem has glue spots everywhere. Trim out is cheap and the pratical board coverings are just shoved together in many places. I've got some plans to secure some items and sure up others with weight in mind.
It costs more to do jobs in a half arsed manner, and even more if the customer doesn't return due to workmanship issues. A happy customer is a returning customer most times.

GM cut 5 lbs of bolts nuts and washers out of their cars for better gas mileage years ago and so did Ford. They ran adverts on the cost cuts to assist with better mileage.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:13 PM   #22
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In the market place, manufacturers will build the product at a level that meets market demand while allowing for acceptable profit and return for the company stakeholders. If the market supports a particular leicester and quality then that's where things settle.

The manufacturers have a big role in this but so do consumers. There are many repeat buyers in the RV market that continue to buy the same quality products over and over. When the consumer changes their demands things may improve. Until then our nation of disposable product consumption will continue.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeep4Two View Post
In the market place, manufacturers will build the product at a level that meets market demand while allowing for acceptable profit and return for the company stakeholders. If the market supports a particular leicester and quality then that's where things settle.

The manufacturers have a big role in this but so do consumers. There are many repeat buyers in the RV market that continue to buy the same quality products over and over. When the consumer changes their demands things may improve. Until then our nation of disposable product consumption will continue.

You've said it best so far.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post
Unfortunately what cost cutting measures the manufacturer is making going forward for their profit is also added on at most dealers for their profit margin as well.

the same trailer for $15899 US in the states is 33899 Canadian here in Canada.
I always could not figure out how 25 yr olds could own a TT or 5-er but at 1/2 the cost... it makes sense.

I noticed that our 2012 Salem has glue spots everywhere. Trim out is cheap and the pratical board coverings are just shoved together in many places. I've got some plans to secure some items and sure up others with weight in mind.
It costs more to do jobs in a half arsed manner, and even more if the customer doesn't return due to workmanship issues. A happy customer is a returning customer most times.

GM cut 5 lbs of bolts nuts and washers out of their cars for better gas mileage years ago and so did Ford. They ran adverts on the cost cuts to assist with better mileage.
Do you some proof of that? MSRP vs MSRP? I think you're exaggerating by a fair amount. RV prices were no better than 20% better in the US when I bought mine last year and it varied widely.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:32 PM   #25
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We've been told for decades that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer and the middle class is vanishing.

Not sure about that, but as far as products and services its' certainly true. High end is dong well, low end is dong well. Those in the middle...not so much.

If a TV costs $400 and a repairman is $100/hour 2 hour minimum, plus parts, are you gonna repair your 4 year old TV? Nope. You'll buy a new one with new features.

And this makes sense - from the manufacturer's point of view. Especially as quality has gone up and things dont' break as often. When your Chevy broke down every 5k miles chevy made money on selling replacement parts. Back in the 70s and 80s it was rare to see a car with over 100k miles on it. Heck, I bought many a car with 60k on them for under $1000, one for $500 once (and it wasn't rusty either). But I remember replacing alternators, starters, waterpumps every 40-50k miles. I've got 3 fords with over 100k miles on them, one with 230k on it - all have the factory installed water pumps, alternators, 2 of 3 have their starters, none leak fluids...ford/chevy aren't making money on repair parts any more. So they have to sell new cars anyway they can.
The japanese have know this for a long time. Few imports over 5 years old look fresh/modern. Yet the domestics run the same body styles for twice that time if not longer. The crown vic went unchanged for how long? 12 years? why buy new when a 10 year old one looks the same? Sales declined and they dropped the crown vic.

So TT makers are in the boat - people will buy high end (airstream) or want cheap. There's no money in replacement parts so you gotta sell new units. If your product can look dated in 5 years and won't wear well then the consumer can be convinced to buy a new unit.

I also think the proliferation in brands (names anyway) only confuses things more. When we shopped there were no 'chevy - buick- cadillac' type of 'this is better than that over there'. Heck, I think 1/2 the brands are made on the same assembly lines so the differences are color as much as anything 'real'.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:19 AM   #26
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Buying a poorly built R V is the same as buying a vehicle built by G M Chrysler & Ford
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #27
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Buying a poorly built R V is the same as buying a vehicle built by G M Chrysler & Ford
Used to be that way. The US companies have come a long way, especially ford - it's why they didn't need a bailout.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:50 AM   #28
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Used to be that way. The US companies have come a long way, especially ford - it's why they didn't need a bailout.
Don't think that is the reason Ford didn't want a bailout.

But, that has nothing to do with the OP's original intent of this thread.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:27 PM   #29
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i was responding to murrys2's comment which i consider almost anti-american and certainly ignorant.

I've owned many american cars from the early 60s to 2004 of most if not all brands (at least currenty offered). I spent 15 years in the auto industry - mechanic, service advisor, sales in both US and foreign dealerships.

I have opinions based on first hand experience gained over decades, plus I read a lot. Of the domestics Ford is the best - the least costly to own. Nissan isn't much better than domestic and toyota's quality has been falling as they've tried to be number 1 worldwide.

For a driving appliance I'd say it may depend on model as much as brand, but honda, toyota, subaru and ford are all good choices. Second tier would be gm, nissan. Chrysler can be spotty, jeep too. Mistubishi is poor.
I don't have experience with kia,hyundai, suzuki cars or the high end european stuff (landrover, jag, bmw, mercedes, porsche, etc) other than anecdotal and tha'ts not valid - other than repairs are pricey.
VW...personal experience and what I read puts them with chrysler.

Ford has been having great sales over the past decade, they refi'd everything to rebuild a lot of their assembly lines about 7 years ago when gm/chry/jeep didn't so that has helped their production efficiency and quality.

To get back on topic, when we went shopping and asked for advice (on forums, of other owners, etc) the only advice i got was "just judge quality for yourself" - basically useless advice for everyone that isn't an engineer or have experience in carpentry, electrical, etc.

Brand wise...I have no clue why there are so many brand names out there...and where the old ones went (shasta, terry are two I see often or remember). Makes the whole industry IMO seem almost fly-by-nite, as if they're intentionally trying to con customers with low quality, brand swithcing, name changing 3 card monte game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnnc View Post
Don't think that is the reason Ford didn't want a bailout.

But, that has nothing to do with the OP's original intent of this thread.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by pappcam View Post
Do you some proof of that? MSRP vs MSRP? I think you're exaggerating by a fair amount. RV prices were no better than 20% better in the US when I bought mine last year and it varied widely.
My 2012 Salm 27RKSS was sold to me at $15899 US plus 1 G for delivery. No sales tax at the state purchased out of.

13% tax into Canada. $33899 Canadian on the lot taxes in located in Sussex NB

Friend of mine in April 2012 just saved 23 G's on a new 5-er out of Ohio vs Fredericton.
2 others (next door neighbor saved about 1/2 off what he was going to pay for his second trailer out of Ohio from the lot at 24 here and it was close to 40G's here.

Just going off the 4 sales I know but the trend is there....

Park models were (last fall) 45 to 58 in Maine for some manufacturers. 70 to 80 here in NB
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof_fate
i was responding to murrys2's comment which i consider almost anti-american and certainly ignorant.

I've owned many american cars from the early 60s to 2004 of most if not all brands (at least currenty offered). I spent 15 years in the auto industry - mechanic, service advisor, sales in both US and foreign dealerships.

I have opinions based on first hand experience gained over decades, plus I read a lot. Of the domestics Ford is the best - the least costly to own. Nissan isn't much better than domestic and toyota's quality has been falling as they've tried to be number 1 worldwide.

For a driving appliance I'd say it may depend on model as much as brand, but honda, toyota, subaru and ford are all good choices. Second tier would be gm, nissan. Chrysler can be spotty, jeep too. Mistubishi is poor.
I don't have experience with kia,hyundai, suzuki cars or the high end european stuff (landrover, jag, bmw, mercedes, porsche, etc) other than anecdotal and tha'ts not valid - other than repairs are pricey.
VW...personal experience and what I read puts them with chrysler.

Ford has been having great sales over the past decade, they refi'd everything to rebuild a lot of their assembly lines about 7 years ago when gm/chry/jeep didn't so that has helped their production efficiency and quality.

To get back on topic, when we went shopping and asked for advice (on forums, of other owners, etc) the only advice i got was "just judge quality for yourself" - basically useless advice for everyone that isn't an engineer or have experience in carpentry, electrical, etc.

Brand wise...I have no clue why there are so many brand names out there...and where the old ones went (shasta, terry are two I see often or remember). Makes the whole industry IMO seem almost fly-by-nite, as if they're intentionally trying to con customers with low quality, brand swithcing, name changing 3 card monte game.
Shasta is back
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post
My 2012 Salm 27RKSS was sold to me at $15899 US plus 1 G for delivery. No sales tax at the state purchased out of.

13% tax into Canada. $33899 Canadian on the lot taxes in located in Sussex NB

Friend of mine in April 2012 just saved 23 G's on a new 5-er out of Ohio vs Fredericton.
2 others (next door neighbor saved about 1/2 off what he was going to pay for his second trailer out of Ohio from the lot at 24 here and it was close to 40G's here.

Just going off the 4 sales I know but the trend is there....

Park models were (last fall) 45 to 58 in Maine for some manufacturers. 70 to 80 here in NB
Are you actually comparing prices you'd actually pay taking it off the lot?

My 2012 Flagstaff 27BESS was within $2000 everywhere I checked compared to what I paid for it up here in Canada. It was not worth the time or effort to go down south and deal with bringing one up here.

Maybe I just got a real good deal up here, who knows.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:25 PM   #33
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Jayco had a 2010 26 RKSS in Fredericton new on lot 32,000
I went through every trailer they had on the lot and settled in on this one.
I asked 4 or 5 times - cash on the barrel sale one payment not low payments - no credit check needed what was their best price.

4 or 5 times they dodged the bullet of a bottom dollar. That unit still sits on their lot.
Couch's RV was $15,899 less 5% exchange on currency.
When we hauled it back across the line we were 2% to the good.

$33,899 taxes included Canadian off the lot in Sussex and a whole lot of attitude for the same trailer.

at 2000 more than the US price you got a SWEET deal.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:44 PM   #34
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Another thread gone so far off-topic it is pointless.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #35
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a dab of JB Quick Weld

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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post

Why are things made so poorly?

the 5th time I go to open the cabinet door to under the kitchen sink the lower hinge just rips completely out.

the screw the hinge is put in with and it's about size of a small thumb tack.

sure have
noticed the same
screws on these THINGS
fall out often
on most I add a dab of JB Quick Weld
put them back in and all is fine

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:46 PM   #36
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Another thread gone so far off-topic it is pointless.
Welcome to an open forum. Most threads are answered within the first page or two. Many within the first reply. Anything past the 3rd page is fluff, confirmation, and/or chit chat.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:58 PM   #37
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Quality

Yes you are right This is a place to post your experience just to bad some people are to closed minded
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #38
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Welcome to an open forum. Most threads are answered within the first page or two. Many within the first reply. Anything past the 3rd page is fluff, confirmation, and/or chit chat.
X2
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:00 PM   #39
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X2

Ditto ^^^^
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #40
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Some threads will have more offsprings than others. In the end the replies are distant relatives to the original post. When I feel a thread has ran its course I move on. Posting comments (even good intentions) can keep a dying thread on life-support.
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