Berkshire GFI Outlet in Power Bay

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 10:39 AM

Can anyone please tell me what this cord plugged into the GFI outlet in my 2015 Berkshire 34QS power bay (right next to the ATS, under the shelf holding the Magnum inverter, etc.) is for? (photo below, hopefully)
Yes, I COULD head up the road to the storage facility, pull it out to a parking lot, pull the slides out so I could access every outlet plug, turn on every electrical component I have, unplug the cord and see what shuts off, but, you know . . . coronavirus . . .

Secondary question - has anyone modified that outlet to provide for another receptacle (i.e., a double GFI outlet instead of the current single). I'm assuming this is a dedicated circuit for something, but not sure if it needs to be a "dedicated circuit" with a capital D, or if I could add what would be an occasional use outlet for exterior power? (Obviously, it would be for generator powered times as at a FHU site, the pedestal would be 10 feet away, probably with its own 110/120V service . . .)

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 10:40 AM

Of course the photo posted sideways

, but hopefully you get the idea . . .

Igave · 03-10-2020, 11:02 AM

I believe it’s for the engine pre-heater to plug into. The cord is right next to it on mine. It’s single because of the power draw from that engine heater.

anaviator · 03-10-2020, 11:16 AM

My guesses are either block heater as was already mentioned or the central vac (assuming you have one).

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 11:23 AM

By "pre-heater", do you mean "block heater"? If so, that makes sense to me. I was thinking it was something substantial based on the cord, but I had (or thought I had) accounted for every other "substantial" draw.
Now, to the second question - any issues on doubling up that outlet? Is there a thermostat that turns on the block heater at XX degrees? I'm in Southern California so not sure there's too much need for a block heater here. I'm fine just unplugging the block heater if that's all it is and, God forbid, I find myself somewhere where I need it, I can manually plug it back in . . .

NO3putt · 03-10-2020, 11:31 AM

Just leave it unplugged unless your some place cold, like under 40 degrees. Use our outlet for other things like extension cord when needed.

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anaviator

My guesses are either block heater as was already mentioned or the central vac (assuming you have one).

No, my "central vac" is the 6 foot, bi-pedal, 190 pound, dual-handed, oscillating whisker type, running on a fuel mixture of beer, tortilla chips and queso . . .

anaviator · 03-10-2020, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneSouth10

No, my "central vac" is the 6 foot, bi-pedal, 190 pound, dual-handed, oscillating whisker type, running on a fuel mixture of beer, tortilla chips and queso . . .

HAHAHA...love it! Sounds like it's the block heater then. I would think that there is a switch inside the coach somewhere for it. It certainly wouldn't hurt to unplug the block heater and use that outlet for something else.

cavie · 03-10-2020, 01:45 PM

It is a single dedicated outlet because it is controlling a high wattage important load. block heater. You don't want the block heater breaker tripping because of something else plugged into the same circuit. Unplug the heater when not in use and use the circuit.

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavie

It is a single dedicated outlet because it is controlling a high wattage important load. block heater. You don't want the block heater breaker tripping because of something else plugged into the same circuit. Unplug the heater when not in use and use the circuit.

Yup, got all that, but still curious - is the block heater thermostatically controlled? Growing up, when you wanted your block heater to keep your engine from freezing overnight (or during the day . . . brrrrr

), you just plugged it in. This one is obviously plugged in all the time, but it shouldn't be "running" the block heater all the time, correct? So I'm assuming there is some temperature sensitive control somewhere . . .
Which brings up the second question - I'm assuming this is wired straight through from the shore power (meaning it obviously doesn't run through the inverter), but does it run on generator power?
Again, just curious and love to learn about all this stuff (whether I actually remember is a whole different issue . . .

)

anaviator · 03-10-2020, 03:26 PM

Are you certain there isn't a switch for it somewhere? I don't know about the 2015's but the Precision Plex system in our 2020 has a switch for the block heater.

DogFather · 03-10-2020, 03:49 PM

FWIW, on the PDI for our 2018 Berk, we noticed that (unlabeled) cord was unplugged and asked about it.

Among other things we were told at the time (some turned out to be factual, some not) was that it was for a block heater and had no switch. Seemed primitive to me that it would need to be manually plugged/unplugged as needed, but was confirmed by the PDI guru - no switch. Thermostat wasn't discussed.

GoneSouth10 · 03-10-2020, 04:08 PM

Alright, you people are obviously going to make me do this the hard way!!!

Next time I'm up at the coach I'll crawl under there and try to trace it.

- anaviator: Nope, I don't have the Precision Plex system and I don't believe I have any "mystery" switches that I haven't already figured out (other than the "Radio" switch on the dash, which is a whole 'nother post!)
- DogFather: The always reliable PDI notwithstanding (yes, that was sarcasm font

), it just doesn't make sense to me that there would be no switch, or thermostat at least, if it was a block heater (or at least the PDI guy would be knowledgeable enough to tell you "Hey, this is a 1960's style block heater - plug it in when it's cold, unplug it when it's not cold . . . Got it?"). Also, it would make more sense to just have that cord available so you could plug it into a 110V outlet (unless the idea is that the block heater could run off the generator . . . which is a little circular - if it's cold enough to be concerned about the engine freezing, what makes you think the generator isn't going to freeze? I know it won't freeze while it's running, but to run it all night?!?! Seems like you would just plug the block heater directly into a pedestal or house outlet).

All of that said, the other thing that popped into my head was the tank heaters, which I envisions as a fancy "heating pad", which would have a cord similar to the one pictured (and I do have a Tank Heater" switch up in my control panel).

Igave · 03-11-2020, 10:23 AM

Those tank heaters are 12 volt, pretty low draw so they wouldn’t be the 120 you’re looking at. Mine is a 2016 and It can run off the generator if need be. I haven’t tried to see if it’d work from the inverter but I very much doubt it given the power draw. There was a post here some time ago from a fellow wondering why his electric bill was so high when plugged in at home-and that ended up being the reason as it was on 24/7. His had no thermostat obviously but although I think mine does, I’m not positive of that. His diesel started right up easily every time though! I only plug mine in a few hours before starting in below freezing whether and use the plug for other things otherwise.

GoneSouth10 · 03-11-2020, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igave

Those tank heaters are 12 volt, pretty low draw so they wouldn’t be the 120 you’re looking at. Mine is a 2016 and It can run off the generator if need be. I haven’t tried to see if it’d work from the inverter but I very much doubt it given the power draw. There was a post here some time ago from a fellow wondering why his electric bill was so high when plugged in at home-and that ended up being the reason as it was on 24/7. His had no thermostat obviously but although I think mine does, I’m not positive of that. His diesel started right up easily every time though! I only plug mine in a few hours before starting in below freezing whether and use the plug for other things otherwise.

Roger that on the tank heaters.
On the block heater, that's crazy that it runs 24/7, no matter the temperature. That also seems like it'd be pulling through a whole lot of unnecessary amps, especially on those occasions when just plugging into a 110V/20 Amp service (e.g., to cool the fridge down before a trip or just to recharge the batteries).

Igave · 03-11-2020, 12:36 PM

Yup. One of these days I’ll try to figure out whether there is a thermostat or not-I suspect there is on these. The fellow who had the 24/7 issue I believe had an older coach which was new to him so he was still discovering the quirks. I have to use the heater so few times a year I haven’t putzed with that much.

CZNEDY · 03-11-2020, 06:23 PM

Gonesouth, that receptacle and plug is definitely your block heater. Unplug it and leave it unplugged until you need to use it. No need to worry about using it for anything until you try to start your rig in the cold weather.

formerFR · 03-11-2020, 06:36 PM

there's a chance it has a 'thermostat', of sorts, maybe like the heated 'spigot' tape for your outside water hookup, that some folks use. It stays plugged in all the time, but only comes 'on' when the temp falls below a certain threshold.

I've often wondered why some coaches, like yours, are built with the requirement to have to manually 'plug in' the block heater. But, I've also learned that it might be a way to eliminate the 'accidental' switching 'on' of the block heater, when you don't intend to, like on my coach.
Mine has a physical 'switch', just like a light switch, on the side of my bedframe, near the foot. The switch is horizontal, rather than vertical, and even has it's own Red 'indicator' light.
The issue is that this is all 'hidden' by the sheets and covers for the bed!
I understand that the factory 'thinks' that having a red indicator light might help to let the owner know that they have switched ON the block heater, especially IF they didn't intentionally intend to do so, BUT since you can't see it while walking back toward the rear of the coach, looking toward the foot of the bed, since the head of the bed is mounted at the rear wall, not on the side, or within a slide, like many others, you CANNOT see it, EVER!

So, I took the easiest course of action, and simply tripped it's breaker. O.k., that solves the problem, but it certainly seems as if anyone in the design department, or the engineering department, or the furniture department, or the wiring department, would easily understand that this placement is simply a ridiculous place to mount any 'switch', especially since there is PLENTY of space and place for it right on the FRONT of the bedframe, next to the Fuse panel and Breaker panel, and easily seen by anyone walking toward the bed in the hallway, or even from the FRONT of the coach! It would also not lead to easy 'accidental' switching of the switch, which is a big part of the problem. Since there's only limited room on each side of the bed, to walk around, it's obvious that this placement only makes it an assurance that you are going to accidentally sweep past it and easily switch it, either on, or off, though you'd never know WHICH! The RED indicator light does absolutely NOTHING to alert the owner, at least at this commonsenseless location...

maybe I'd really rather have a 'plug in' outlet for the block heater!

CZNEDY · 03-11-2020, 07:05 PM

On the 34 QS it is mounted in the rear side compartment so it is close to the engine, which the block heater works on. Running a 120 VAC circuit 34 feet back to the engine block heater wouldn't make sense. That would be like putting a block heater plug in a diesel pick up in the truck bed as opposed to under the hood.

GoneSouth10 · 03-11-2020, 07:27 PM

Okay, a couple more data points (the kind that could be gathered WITHOUT crawling in the mud under the coach!):
1. I think the consensus is that it's the block heater.
2. Unplugged the cord today and plugged in a simple GFIC outlet/receptacle tester (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
3. Batteries (house and chassis) all connected, solar charger feeding battery bank, no power to the outlet - that makes sense.
4. Turned on the inverter, checked again, no power to the outlet - again, that makes sense.
5. Turned on the genny, went back to check it and the middle and right hand indicator lights on the GFIC tester were lit. Of course, because it had been more than 20 seconds since I looked at it, I had to pull the tester out to confirm what those two indicator lights meant (it meant the circuit was properly wired and live).
6. I thought, "Okay, the genny powers the block heater, good to know." Plugged the tester back in the outlet and, huh . . . no indicator lights. In the interim, I did hear something switch off in or around the power bay, but I don't know if it was the inverter or some relay. I can't imagine that the circuit itself has some sort of thermostatically controlled relay where it powers up for about 20-30 seconds and then, if the temp isn't low enough (it was in the 70's), the circuit itself shuts off if it's only the genny powering it (i.e., it would stay live if it was on shore power), but who knows?
7. Haven't been able to test that theory on shore power, but will next time I have the coach plugged in . . .

You may also like: