Dry Weight for 390RB

[Phil57]

Boo wasn't suggesting you drop it only attempting to explain what we went through and how it affected our enjoyment or lack thereof in our first year of owning a MH. Dianna and I are both looking forward to next month and having all this behind us. We love the MH and are currently in Nashville enjoying it. Good luck and please keep me updated. Also let me know if I can help.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Boo wasn't suggesting you drop it only attempting to explain what we went through and how it affected our enjoyment or lack thereof in our first year of owning a MH. Dianna and I are both looking forward to next month and having all this behind us. We love the MH and are currently in Nashville enjoying it. Good luck and please keep me updated. Also let me know if I can help.

No worries, mate!! Get out there and enjoy it to make up for all you've been through.



In spite of this problem, we luv this coach and the lifestyle it gives us.


Boowho??

[Hallen01]

Chassis mfg date 03/2012, completed 09/2012:
3/4 fuel (25 gal, or 169 lb diesel out of tank), no water, full propane, driver, no cargo except 360 lbs of cargo slides installed:

Front axle: 10,360 lb
Rear Axle: 16,900 lb
Both: 27,240 lb (scale accurate to 20 lb)

Interpolating the Michelin tables, I went with 110 lbs. front, 98 lbs. rear; basically the rear tires are always going to be a little overinflated, the front tires a little overloaded. Probably why I see discussions of front axle upgrades. Nice generator up front, though (420 Lbs.).

(Michelin Load & Inflation Tables, 255/80R22.5 LRG XRVR)
Assumptions:
• Full water, 717 lbs, all on rear axle
•¾ fuel, all on front axle
• Cargo tray load, 200 lbs net, divided
equally between axles

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Hallen01

Chassis mfg date 03/2012, completed 09/2012:
3/4 fuel (25 gal, or 169 lb diesel out of tank), no water, full propane, driver, no cargo except 360 lbs of cargo slides installed:

Front axle: 10,360 lb
Rear Axle: 16,900 lb
Both: 27,240 lb (scale accurate to 20 lb)

Interpolating the Michelin tables, I went with 110 lbs. front, 98 lbs. rear; basically the rear tires are always going to be a little overinflated, the front tires a little overloaded. Probably why I see discussions of front axle upgrades. Nice generator up front, though (420 Lbs.).

(Michelin Load & Inflation Tables, 255/80R22.5 LRG XRVR)
Assumptions:
• Full water, 717 lbs, all on rear axle
•¾ fuel, all on front axle
• Cargo tray load, 200 lbs net, divided
equally between axles

It appears your empty weight then is between 27K and 27.5K lbs based upon your scaled readings. Were your black water and grey water empty?

What does your yellow sticker on your screen door specify the empty (also called Unladen Vehicle Weight - UVW) weight to be??

Boowho??

[Lynkage]

That is really sad for that type of unit.

I have the same going on with my 5er.

Weighs 700lbs more than the sticker says.

[Joker]

I finally got my RV emptied weighed. Here's my data:

Yellow sticker: occupants and cargo must not exceed 3056#. Dry weight 25550#

White sticker:
GVWR: 29410 with 19000 rear and 10410 front.

What my unit had on it at time of weighing that wasn't there when it left factory:
3rd AC - about 80 pounds, close to middle between axles
Washer/Dryer combo - in rear, should actually reduce front axle load
Full slide out tray in cargo hold
Full Diesel, DEF and propane
Less than 5 gallons each grey/black tanks (still winterized) -- the large majority of this weight should be on the rear axle
Me in the driver's seat - 225#
Some seatbelt hardware, probably about 30#
And that's it!! Nothing else!!

Drum roll please...

CAT scale...
Front 9980
Rear 17100
Combined 27080

That leaves only 430 pounds to put on the front axle when I load it!! After subtracting the DW, that's only 280# before I hit the MAX allowed!!! WTH?? So with just my wife and myself, I am only 2.7% below the max. That seems safe FR.

Maybe I need to buy about 500# of lead weight to affix behind the rear axle to lift the front a bit. Sheeshz.....

[Phil57]

How are your tires. When do you plan to change them.

[Phil57]

My point is you have add items to your MH that FR will blame for the weight. Not saying its right but I think you know that will go. In my option it is a risk to use the MH as is in my case 8-9 hundred lb over on the steer axel. I talked to a lot of people and they agreed that it was risky. They also suggested bolt on items like safe steer to minimize it. To me that wasn't a option and really was to the point where it had to be fixed with in reason and that is what FL did. If you are close to needing tires the cost would be expensive but the tires need replacement anyway. The benefit to the fix is piece mind a much better handling MH and a greatly improved ride. The other difference I'm still looking into and need some help. The rpm are much lower. I run 62 in 6 gear at 1500. 70 at 1750. I don't know if this has affected my torque with the bigger tires. Also the tires barely fit. They do but I make sure the wheel is straight before releasing the air as I think it would damage the finder. The only thing that was increased was the steer axel weight rating. That is 12000 know. I am still limited to 33000 GCVW and I'm going to get what the max weight can be without the toad next week in Elkhart. I have my idea what it should be but not sure what FR will do. I'm limited to 33000 by The 2500 transmission.
I think FR has some obligation here to make things right but I also know lie things go. I believe that this was nut an intensional defect and I don't know if they figured out what happened yet but I know they were very concerned when we found the real numbers on my MH. They had lots of people involved looking at every part of the MH. I guess what I'm saying is even if FR will not fix this issue it can still be done. Gaffney has the engineering done and could provide any of their shops to do the work. It would then be FR that is the only one that can change your ratings changed. Sorry so long. I get fired up about this and would hate to see anyone get hurt.

[Joker]

Yes. Added a couple things. The AC (80 lbs) should only add about half its weight to the front axle since its midway between the axles. The washer/dryer would more than make up for the weight of the seatbelt hardware if you account for it being behind the drive axle. So, the only thing remaining is the slide-out which probably weighs a couple hundred pounds, lets say 250. The portion of that weight should be about 150 on the front axle since its closer to that front axle. So I've added about 200# (150+40 -> say 200) to that axle.

So, if you took that 200# off the front axle, then it's unloaded weight (with me as a driver) is still almost 94% of the max load that that axle can handle.

Anyone else find that strange?

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Joker

Yes. Added a couple things. The AC (80 lbs) should only add about half its weight to the front axle since its midway between the axles. The washer/dryer would more than make up for the weight of the seatbelt hardware if you account for it being behind the drive axle. So, the only thing remaining is the slide-out which probably weighs a couple hundred pounds, lets say 250. The portion of that weight should be about 150 on the front axle since its closer to that front axle. So I've added about 200# (150+40 -> say 200) to that axle.

So, if you took that 200# off the front axle, then it's unloaded weight (with me as a driver) is still almost 94% of the max load that that axle can handle.

Anyone else find that strange?

Are you kidding. Does anyone find that strange. Sorry yes. My reply wasn't to excuse it but to help you fix it as easy and cheap as possible. My point with the mods you did is they could effect FR response. Also the are of the MH and if it is still under warranty. I was saying if you were close on tires and needed to replace them as some with the 08 my with 6 years of age don't replace them with out looking at going to larger tires.

[Joker]

This was one of the first 2012 coaches;, took delivery May 2011. So only 2 years and 19k miles on her. Tires look fine still.

There's also a sticker inside with the following info about the front axle:
AF 10.5-3 10,500# FF1 71.5 KPI/3.74
So, does this mean its a weaker axle than other people have? Or is it still the same that could achieve the higher loading with airbag and tire mods?

I'm supposed to be driving it from S. Colorado to S. Missouri here in about 6 weeks.

Thanks for the comments Phil. I understand that FR could use the mods against me and I was just trying to show that even before my mods ( which are by no means of excessive weight) the coach was ridiculously close to the maximum weight. I mean what if the DW and I weighed closer to 450 and had a couple large folk sitting on the couch. That would be it, we couldn't load any more to the front axle! This is supposed to be a powerful Diesel pusher. I could get a gasser with similar loading capabilities.

One question about the tire mod -- does it cause the tires to rub inside the wheel wells when you turn hard or did they adjust the turn stops so you can't turn it so much?

[Phil57]

The axel you have I believe is the same as mine. It is a Detroit Diesel. DD is owned by the same parent company as FL. The casting is the same on axels from I think 9000-12500. I'm going from memory on that as I'm not home and don't have my notes with me. I googled the numbers I found in my axel and talked to DD about this. Both FL and DD assured me the only difference in the axel is the air bags. This is good to know as that means we don't need to worry about metal fatigue or tearing away from the frame with constant overloaded conditions that you see in some of the trailer and 5th wheel problems. For me the issue was safety. If you have a tire blow out at hi way speed and the suspension is overloaded can it be stopped safely. FL and DD both said yes but the overload issue should be resolved. I didn't take that as Double talk but as conference in the product to preform.
The tires do not rub or hit the fenders when the airbag is up. I think it would if The wheel was left in a full turn when the airbag was deflated. There is nothing that limits my steering.

[NO3putt]

Went to scales, 2009 390QS Berkshire

ADDED ITEMS AFTER LEFT FR: title flooring, washer/dryer combo, satellite dish.
When weighed, full fuel, propane etc.

Max per sticker, GVWR 27,910, FRONT, 10,410 REAR 17,500
CAT SCALES #1: TOTAL 26,320, FRONT 9,360 REAR 16,960
CAT SCALES #2: TOTAL 27,500, FRONT 9,820, REAR 17,680

Question, what are most of you running the tire presures at and how much difference cold vs hot temps?

Thanks

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Joker

Yes. Added a couple things. The AC (80 lbs) should only add about half its weight to the front axle since its midway between the axles. The washer/dryer would more than make up for the weight of the seatbelt hardware if you account for it being behind the drive axle. So, the only thing remaining is the slide-out which probably weighs a couple hundred pounds, lets say 250. The portion of that weight should be about 150 on the front axle since its closer to that front axle. So I've added about 200# (150+40 -> say 200) to that axle.

So, if you took that 200# off the front axle, then it's unloaded weight (with me as a driver) is still almost 94% of the max load that that axle can handle.

Anyone else find that strange?

I don't find it strange at all. It appears to me that FR may have really "screwed the pooch" on this one. I'm not sure how or why. All I want is to have the carrying capacity that is stated on the yellow sticker. I bought this coach for full time use, and was certain that the STATED CC was plenty for my needs; I checked that carefully before I bought. But it now appears that my yellow sticker stated empty weight is around 3000 lbs LESS that than the coach actually weighs empty.

I'd like to empty it completely out, set fuel, propane, water, etc to the proper criteria and then weigh it again. In other words a TRUE empty weight. My yellow sticker list EW as 23270; I don't think so. BUT, emptying every thing out and then putting it all back would be 2-3 days of back breaking labor.

IF you have a sticker weight on the rear axle of 19K lbs you must have a 360 HP? My sticker max for the rear axle is 17500 although my rear tires are rated at 19K lbs plus change. I assume you rear axle is a bit beefier than mine.


Oh, and I've heard that slide outs can weigh as much as 1000 lbs. Also, the extra cargo slide tray is around 50 lbs max (the tray itself). I had one delivered for mine and I easily carried it from the truck to the patio.

Boowho??

[Joker]

Yes 390BH-60.

My tray is heavyweight steel and is the full width of the coach and can slide out either side. Pretty sure it's well over 50 lbs...but I'd have to get the model number and go to their website. At any rate I guessed high to prevent that from be

[Joker]

Oops... Premature submittal...hate it when that happens...

Anyway I was saying that I guessed high to keep that from being used as an argument as to why the weight was so high.

[tmmar]

Originally Posted by NO3putt

Went to scales, 2009 390QS Berkshire

ADDED ITEMS AFTER LEFT FR: title flooring, washer/dryer combo, satellite dish.
When weighed, full fuel, propane etc.

Max per sticker, GVWR 27,910, FRONT, 10,410 REAR 17,500
CAT SCALES #1: TOTAL 26,320, FRONT 9,360 REAR 16,960
CAT SCALES #2: TOTAL 27,500, FRONT 9,820, REAR 17,680

Question, what are most of you running the tire presures at and how much difference cold vs hot temps?

Thanks

3put

Do you know why there is such a big difference between the 2 CAT scales? I thought that they were certified. 1200 lbs is a big number.
Tom

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

3put

Do you know why there is such a big difference between the 2 CAT scales? I thought that they were certified. 1200 lbs is a big number.
Tom

Tom:

I missed that. The are indeed certified. I've never known them to be off. Perhaps 3put wasn't on the scale correctly for one of the weighs??

Boowho??

[Hallen01]

GVWR:
Front: 10,410
Rear: 17,500
Both: 27,910

SCALE WEIGHT EMPTY: new, 75 gal fuel (507 lbs @ 6.76 lbs/gal), 60% DEF (71 lbs @ 9.09 lbs/gal), two empty cargo trays installed (180 lbs @), 19.6 gal propane (80% full @ 4.4 lbs/gal), all tanks empty, no other cargo
Front: 10,360
Rear: 16,900
Both: 27,240 (scale error incl.)

SCALE WEIGHT OUTFITTED:same quantities as above, except 25 gal addl fuel (676 lbs total), fully outfitted (cargo and food), plus 43 gal water total in all three tanks (358 lbs @ 8.34 lbs/gal):
Front: 10,900 (490 lbs > Front GAWR)
Rear: 17,380 (120 lbs < Rear GAWR)
Both: 28,280 (370 lbs > GVWR)
- no front GAWR or GVWR overload at ~45% fuel

TIRE PRESSURES (using Michelin Load & Inflation Tables, 255/80R22.5 LRG XRVR)
Front: 5450 lbs, single
- passenger on couch
- full fuel
- set at 110 lbs cold (max) @ 70F, no direct sunlight
- front tire overload 245 lbs (both tires)
- no front tire overload at ~64% fuel
Rear: 8690 lbs, double
- passenger on couch
- full fuel
- set at 94 psi cold @ 70F, no direct sunlight (0 - 2 psi overinflated)

[NO3putt]

Don't know the difference. Think next week we will get it weighed again. Both times we had our gear loaded and full of fuel. We might have had some water on board the second time but nothing else was different. Front tires presure goes up about 11 lbs when hot and rear go up a out 6 lbs. Is that presure increase about normal?