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Old 06-21-2013, 06:02 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by tmmar View Post
Boo,
Hey- nothing but the facts maam (as said by Sgt Joe Friday) - LOL!!!

Just as a point of information- a poster (either here or another forum) stated that they had a problem with the fan hub assembly that held the engine cooling fan on their Freightliner engine. They said that the bolts that hold the hub (4 in the old version) were insufficient to hold the assembly to the block. They sheared off and caused the fan to go into the radiator causing all sorts of problems. Freightliner has an updated 5 bolt version that is supposed to correct the problem. I contacted Freightliner and asked that they rectify the situation before I had a problem on the road.
They of course said no. I contacted the DOT and New York State consumer protection agency and explained the situation and told them that there could be serious problems if the bolts failed and the fan went into the radiator. If I was travelling at 65 MPH on the highway and this problem occurred, no telling what could happen to my coach (shards flying around the engine compartment severing who know's what) as well as shards flying around outside my engine compartment, contacting other vehicles following me.
Well the NY State Dept of Consumer affairs contacted Freightliner. I, in turn, was contacted by the General Counsell for Daimler (who owns Freightliner), and guess what, they are going to fix the problem.
My point is, if it is a safety problem that could cause a serious situation, they will pay to take care of the problem rather than face a serious litigation predicament.
Tom
Funny how minds can sometimes be changed when a little pressure is applied. Thankfully, FR has not decided to dig in their heels and force us to follow the same course of action as you with FL.

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Old 06-23-2013, 09:02 PM   #82
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Edgewant, all I know is I'm supposed to get 275 80 load range G tires. Found your 275/80R22.5 LRG XZE2 online.
At following conditions FA is at 10,978 lbs, RA is at 17,500 lbs:
- passenger on couch or up front
- full fuel
- 60% water
- full LP (19.6 gal, 86 lbs)

Under those conditions, it looks like the XZE2 tables want front tires 95 psi, rear tires 77 psi.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #83
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Alright people...... Left FR Elkhart at about 2:00 PM (Eastern) today.

Dropped the coach off at about 7:00 AM and was done by the time mentioned above.

Randy and Mitch (and a nice lady named Julie) were very professional and pleasant to work with. Nice to be able to put faces with names, and for them to be able to do the same.

Mitch gave me a tour of the plant; it's worth the trip if you are in the area to stop by an ask for the tour. Fascinating!!

Anyhow, 6 tires switched with the new larger tires and airbags replaced. So, far I notice no difference in the handling, but the ride may be a tiny bit better.

I did not get any paperwork yet, so won't know about the new axle limits until it arrives in the mail.

All in all, the visit just made me even happier I bought FR. Their CS is VERY good, just a little slow. They often will fix things which they are not legal required to do (like warranty expired, etc); of course on a case by case basis. Randy and Mitch are up to their butts in aligators as they handle every Berk and Charleston sold; just the two of them.

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Old 06-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #84
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So i finally read this thread yesterday and promptly emailed randy. I advised we had a 2013 RB 360 and was wondering if we would have the same issue. He replied to arrange an appointment in Gaffney SC to have the tires and air bags replaced. So I guess I'm going in August, only time I have off. Is there no place closer that can do this work?
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:06 AM   #85
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So i finally read this thread yesterday and promptly emailed randy. I advised we had a 2013 RB 360 and was wondering if we would have the same issue. He replied to arrange an appointment in Gaffney SC to have the tires and air bags replaced. So I guess I'm going in August, only time I have off. Is there no place closer that can do this work?
Mine was done at the FR plant in Elkhart, IN. Other than that, FR highly prefers (maybe even requires) that it be done at one of those two locations.

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Old 06-29-2013, 09:09 PM   #86
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Hallen01:
You can Google Michelin XZE2 (which is exactly what is imprinted on the tire) or
Follow this link to the Michelin XZE2.
Michelin Americas Truck Tires XZE2 Page
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:17 PM   #87
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Hallen01,

Sorry I missed your second response. I simply went by the four corner weights obtained at FCCC and added for full load of fuel, tank water, full LP and passengers. My total FA is 10920 but the heavy side at 5765 lbs sets the tire pressure for front. Similar on rear.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #88
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I'm pleased to report that I have now been scheduled for the air bag/tire upgrade in Gaffney. I emailed Randy with my details and he had me scheduled in within a few minutes. Obviously they are aware of this weight issue - particularly on the front axle and are taking the needed steps to correct it. I have a 390BH-40 and have previously posted my weights. There were no questions asked! We live in Houston, but are taking vacation in the Smokies next month and they were good enough to fit us in during our vacation. We will be within 2-3 hours of Gaffney, so this has worked out very well. They advise the upgrade will take around half a day. I will report further next month after the upgrade.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:45 AM   #89
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2013 390BH - 360 (255 tires); Front axle weighs in @ 11,040. Email sent to Randy to see if I can obtain the new tires, etc.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #90
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2013 390BH - 360 (255 tires); Front axle weighs in @ 11,040. Email sent to Randy to see if I can obtain the new tires, etc.
please update this thread with your findings. i wonder if new front airbags are due as well?
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #91
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please update this thread with your findings. i wonder if new front airbags are due as well?
It has been two days and no reply email. Maybe he is on vacation?
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:41 AM   #92
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Don't think he is on vacation. Received an email from him yesterday.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:59 AM   #93
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How long did it take for him to reply to you in regards to the weight issue?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #94
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He replied on another issue. He has not replied to an email I sent a few days ago about the weight issue. He says that I must empty my coach and get it weighed but he has done a number of upgrades for others without going through this process. He seems to be selective with regard to this issue.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:05 PM   #95
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Dry Weight Analysis

The yellow sticker shows a dry weight and a total allowable weight for water, cargo and passengers. Subtract those two from the white sticker GVWR, and the difference is 804 lbs, which just happens to be the weight of 100 gal diesel, 19.6 gal propane, and 5 gal of oil.

The DEF is included in the cargo.

See the attached PDF file showing my comparison of manufacturer's dry weight with my determination. My determination was 539 lbs heavier than factory, however I did some calcs to back out things like driver weight, slide trays installed, DEF, etc.

I suspect some things get added at the factory that aren't included in the dry weight. One that I know of is the optional double width slide (about 360Lbs).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Empty Weight Comp.pdf (773.9 KB, 19 views)
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:22 PM   #96
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The yellow sticker shows a dry weight and a total allowable weight for water, cargo and passengers. Subtract those two from the white sticker GVWR, and the difference is 804 lbs, which just happens to be the weight of 100 gal diesel, 19.6 gal propane, and 5 gal of oil.

The DEF is included in the cargo.

See the attached PDF file showing my comparison of manufacturer's dry weight with my determination. My determination was 539 lbs heavier than factory, however I did some calcs to back out things like driver weight, slide trays installed, DEF, etc.

I suspect some things get added at the factory that aren't included in the dry weight. One that I know of is the optional double width slide (about 360Lbs).

Couple of points here....... I have heard the story both ways.

First, the manufacturer is allowed to come up with a "generic" empty weight based upon the very first unit they ever build of a certain model, (for ex the Berkshire). Any options they add to each individual coach (like tile floors, monster fridge, etc) come out of the cargo carrying capacity (in other words, robbed from the buyer).

--OR--

Second, the manufacturer is required by law, to weigh EACH unit as it rolls out the door COMPLETELY ready to be delivered. This even includes PAINT, since the coach painting is farmed out to an outside painting company. Also, if the dealer adds anything to the coach over 100 lbs, they are required to re-do the yellow sticker.

--SO--

I would think that if the first story is true, our yellow stickers would all be identical. They are not. Mine specifies an empty weight of 23270 and a carrying capacity of 3835 for people and cargo. I would LOVE to have a CCC that high. So, I'm thinking that the second option is actually the true story.

--NEXT--

I've also heard two thoughts regarding propane.

One says it comes out your CCC, since only fuels, oil, etc required to move the vehicle down the road are counted in the EW.

The other says it does not, but is in included in the EW.

DEF I don't know about.

--FINALLY--

I was weighed (all 4 corners individually) at an Escapees RV Club rally a couple of weeks ago. I am legally overweight.

The certified weighmaster told me that if any state ever makes me cross a DOT scale, the coach will have to be lightened enough to make it legal before I can exit the scale area and continue my trip. In other words some "stuff" will have to go in the dumpster!!!

He said it is rare, but weighing a coach does happen once in awhile especially in Oregon (I think that was the state he mentioned).

He further said that DOT scales will give a semi-truck a little fudge factor (maybe 2-3 hundred lbs), but not one extra pound on a motor home.

Finally (again), he said if involved in an accident, even ONE pound overweight could be used against you in a CIVIL court of law.

Now I don't know about anybody else reading this, but I strongly feel that over-stating a carrying capacity by as much as 2-3K lbs, is very much akin to selling someone a used car on which they have rolled back the odometer by thousands of miles; it's fraud.

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Old 07-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #97
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Couple of points here....... I have heard the story both ways.

First, the manufacturer is allowed to come up with a "generic" empty weight based upon the very first unit they ever build of a certain model, (for ex the Berkshire). Any options they add to each individual coach (like tile floors, monster fridge, etc) come out of the cargo carrying capacity (in other words, robbed from the buyer).

--OR--

Second, the manufacturer is required by law, to weigh EACH unit as it rolls out the door COMPLETELY ready to be delivered. This even includes PAINT, since the coach painting is farmed out to an outside painting company. Also, if the dealer adds anything to the coach over 100 lbs, they are required to re-do the yellow sticker.

--SO--

I would think that if the first story is true, our yellow stickers would all be identical. They are not. Mine specifies an empty weight of 23270 and a carrying capacity of 3835 for people and cargo. I would LOVE to have a CCC that high. So, I'm thinking that the second option is actually the true story.

--NEXT--

I've also heard two thoughts regarding propane.

One says it comes out your CCC, since only fuels, oil, etc required to move the vehicle down the road are counted in the EW.

The other says it does not, but is in included in the EW.

DEF I don't know about.

--FINALLY--

I was weighed (all 4 corners individually) at an Escapees RV Club rally a couple of weeks ago. I am legally overweight.

The certified weighmaster told me that if any state ever makes me cross a DOT scale, the coach will have to be lightened enough to make it legal before I can exit the scale area and continue my trip. In other words some "stuff" will have to go in the dumpster!!!

He said it is rare, but weighing a coach does happen once in awhile especially in Oregon (I think that was the state he mentioned).

He further said that DOT scales will give a semi-truck a little fudge factor (maybe 2-3 hundred lbs), but not one extra pound on a motor home.

Finally (again), he said if involved in an accident, even ONE pound overweight could be used against you in a CIVIL court of law.

Now I don't know about anybody else reading this, but I strongly feel that over-stating a carrying capacity by as much as 2-3K lbs, is very much akin to selling someone a used car on which they have rolled back the odometer by thousands of miles; it's fraud.

Boowho??

Bill,

The sad thing is all the manufactures skirt so close to the line. Even the higher end 40' coaches are close to the limit unless you go with a tag axle & 45' coach.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:04 PM   #98
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"I've heard that..."

boowho:

CCC is a weight that applies only to towable vehicles. According to 49 CFR Part 571, OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) is for Motorized RVs only, and is the maximum allowable weight of all occupants (including the driver), plus the weight of all food, tools, full fresh water tanks, full LP-Gas tanks and personal belongings. The maximum allowable weight of passengers is based on the number of seat belted positions in the motorized RV. The regulation also states that the tongue weight of towed trailer counts as cargo (only the weight of the hitch itself would be part of the cargo weight, if you are towing flat).

Did you read my attached analysis? It is not coincidence that the GVWR - (EW + Cargo + Occupants) = 804 lbs, which is magically the exact weight of all the fuel, propane, and engine oil.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:49 PM   #99
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boowho:

CCC is a weight that applies only to towable vehicles. According to 49 CFR Part 571, OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) is for Motorized RVs only, and
Yes, you are correct. I should not have used CCC, but OCCC for a coach. My bad.

I also did not mention the GCVW (combined) since my toad is so light that I'm well under the 33K lbs limit for that on 390RB-40.

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Old 07-18-2013, 08:38 AM   #100
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Back to Gaffney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil57 View Post
You can upgrade to a 12000 steer axel and 275 tires. Gaffney did it for me in April. Big improvement. Still limited my the drive train to 33000.
Phil57:

I never did thank you for your tip about the FA mod availability. Randy approved it for my 2013 390RB shortly thereafter, and I get the bigger tires and airbags next Monday in Gaffney.

Attached to my most recent posting (07/17) is an analysis of my "Empty Weight" a.k.a. "Unloaded Vehicle Weight". Basically, it says my calc of EW is 539 lbs over the EW listed on the yellow sticker, but the EW I came up with was an "as delivered" weight, adjusted for a few things (see attachment). Still, 539 lbs is not insignificant discrepancy, even allowing for error.

My EW (UVW) and Cargo Weights listed on the yellow sticker do not add up to the white sticker GVWR (27910 lbs.), but fall short by 804 lbs, which is magically the exact weight of full diesel,propane and engine oil (my attachment also contains accurate sp.gr. of fluids, obtained from the MSDS sheets).

Also, see "rvsafety.com" at Understanding Motorhome Weights | RV Safety.com That's about the most accurate website on the subject of weight definitions I've seen, and is based on a direct reading of the U.S. DOT NHTSA adopted revisions to the regulations in 49 CFR Part 571.

Happy Trails
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