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Old 07-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Hallen01 View Post

Also, see "rvsafety.com" at Understanding Motorhome Weights | RV Safety.com That's about the most accurate website on the subject of weight definitions I've seen, and is based on a direct reading of the U.S. DOT NHTSA adopted revisions to the regulations in 49 CFR Part 571.

Happy Trails
Thanks for the link..... I believe this will be the final answer as to what is fact and what is speculation/guesswork.

In reading, it seems to state that the OCCC on the door sticker has to be for each individual coach, and it HAS to be accurate.

Thanks

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:40 AM   #102
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I've seen 'OCCC on the door sticker' mentioned a number of time in this thread. Can you tell me where this sticker is and what is on it. I'm not sure what sticker is being referenced here.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:53 PM   #103
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I've seen 'OCCC on the door sticker' mentioned a number of time in this thread. Can you tell me where this sticker is and what is on it. I'm not sure what sticker is being referenced here.
Tom, you may not have the sticker since the DOT requirement for it wasn't enacted until June of 2008.

On my coach it's on the sliding plastic panel that you open to reach the screen door handle from the inside.

It's about 2x5 inches and is yellow.

Earlier in this thread, one or two of us posted a picture of their own sticker.

The following verbiage is taken directly from RVSafety.com

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In June of 2008, the U.S. Department of Transportation’s (DOT) National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) adopted revisions to the regulations in 49 CFR Part 571 to require separate and specific RV weight labels. This ruling superseded any prior RVIA requirements and replaced the 2000 RVIA labeling system (see below).

The NHTSA label requirements include the following additional key terms:

OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) (for Motorized RVs only): This figure states the maximum allowable weight of all occupants (including the driver), plus the weight of all food, tools, full fresh water tanks, full LP-Gas tanks and personal belongings. The maximum allowable weight of passengers is based on the number of seat belted positions in the motorized RV. The regulation also states that the “tongue weight of towed trailer counts as cargo.”

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) (for Towable RV’s only): This figure states the maximum allowable weight of all cargo, including all food, tools, full fresh water tanks, full LP-Gas tanks and personal belongings.

Load Carrying Capacity Reduced: The regulation also requires dealers to state on an amended or additional label the total amount (in pounds and kg) that additional options or changes to the RV have decreased the OCCC or CCC. The amount stated is limited to the total weight of all additions or changes made by the dealer ‘prior to the first sale’ that are the ‘lesser of 1.5% of the GVWR or 100 pounds’.


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Old 08-08-2013, 10:43 PM   #104
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I had my service completed in Gaffney today. It is a very professional group. The service took essentially the entire day. The new tires are Michelin XZE2 LRGs. The front air bags also get replaced. This brings the front axle to 12,000 pounds while the rear remains the same. They also recalibrate the speedo due to the ~3% difference.

Gaffney also offers a 4 point (or 6 point) weight measurement. However, they charge $50 for this which is a bit steep. I did get them to weigh it as I previously only had axle weights. I am now about 1000 under on the front axle, but about 600 over on the rear.

The techs mentioned that I was the eighth one of these they have done - all recently. Only drove about 100 miles to our CG, so hard to tell if there was a driving difference. I can say there may be a slight handling improvement, and it does seem softer over the bumps. Previously, even expansion joints could bang pretty hard. They inflated the tires all to 110 psi which was about 25 psi too high. So when I drive again next week with the proper pressures, it may feel differently.

Some notes for those who may be going to Gaffney for service.... They have a parking lot with full electric, plus a dump station with fresh water to fill your tank. There are maybe a dozen spots available and they let you stay overnight as needed. There were probably 10 coaches in the lot today. They have 6 service bays and all they do is motorhomes at this "Oasis" center. The main Freightliner shop is a few miles done the road.

I'm very pleased that FR is taking care of this issue for us. Not sure what/who made the errors, but at least it is getting fixed.

Hope is helps for any others looking to get this upgrade done.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:21 AM   #105
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It has been two days and no reply email. Maybe he is on vacation?
have you heard anything back on your 2013 390bh unit yet?
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #106
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They inflated the tires all to 110 psi which was about 25 psi too high. So when I drive again next week with the proper pressures, it may feel differently.
CapuTech:

I had a similar experience.

I had just taken on propane the day before, and left prior to FCCC 4-corner weighing to fill up with fuel and DEF. The ride back (with an empty water tank which I had run dry that morning) was with noticeably poor front end handling (e.g. “wallowing”).

When I came back, I filled the water tank SOLID with 717 lbs. water. FCCC Gaffney – Oasis added 410 lbs to the front axle weights they obtained, to allow for my wife and me, as the weight is performed in the shop with no one aboard.

With the my new suspension and all tanks full, driver and passenger aboard, 110 psi would be about 8 -11 psi cold overinflated in the front and 26 -29 psi cold overinflated in the rear for my rig, at summer and fall temps, respectively. I recommend you go to the tables at http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/report.do?ReportType=NewTread&tread=XZE+2
and interpolate to find your actual pressures, using your weights.

I had them set my tires at 99 psi front, and 82 rear, which for my loading ("full everything") is overinflated about 3 psi in the front, and 4 psi in the rear at a "cold" shop temperature of 70°F. Later in the fall at an ambient temperature of 40°F, that will be about 0 psi in the front, and 1 psi overinflated at 40F.

My four-corner uncorrected weight (no one aboard) came out as follows:

5,500 lbs LF
5,180 lbs RF
8,780 lbs LR
9,120 lbs RR

FA: 11,090 (680 over with driver and passenger)
RA: 17,900 (400 over)
TL: 28,990 (1,080 over)

I got the mod done, and what a vast improvement in the fully loaded configuration! Even with all that water (I don’t normally ride with more than half water), the ride and handling may best be described as more like that of being slightly loaded – no wallowing around anymore when the fuel tank is full.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #107
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i had them set my tires at 99 psi front, and 82 rear, which for my loading ("full everything") is overinflated about 3 psi in the front, and 4 psi in the rear at a "cold" shop temperature of 70°f. Later in the fall at an ambient temperature of 40°f, that will be about 0 psi in the front, and 1 psi overinflated at 40f.

my four-corner uncorrected weight (no one aboard) came out as follows:

5,500 lbs lf
5,180 lbs rf
8,780 lbs lr
9,120 lbs rr

fa: 11,090 (680 over with driver and passenger)
ra: 17,900 (400 over)
tl: 28,990 (1,080 over)

i got the mod done, and what a vast improvement in the fully loaded configuration! even with all that water (i don’t normally ride with more than half water), the ride and handling may best be described as more like that of being slightly loaded – no wallowing around anymore when the fuel tank is full.
I'm not clear on whether your figures are BEFORE or AFTER the mod was done. If after, and you are still over weight (as am I) then this would be used as an aggravating circumstance in case of an accident. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about my situation.

And as I've mentioned earlier, if ever inclined to "pick on" us RV folks (they don't right now, but who knows how long before they do), the state DOT can shut us down (that means the rig doesn't leave the "chicken coop") whenever they feel like it.

This last bit of info was given to me by a certified weigh master at the annual Escapade RV rally (Escapees RV club)

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Old 08-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #108
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have you heard anything back on your 2013 390bh unit yet?
Yes, we had the service completed last Tuesday.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:24 PM   #109
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I'm not clear on whether your figures are BEFORE or AFTER the mod was done. ...
Boowho??
Let me clarify the sequence:
- Arrival at FCCC at appointed time with Randy's email to FCCC of mod approval in hand
- Was informed of new policy (07/19/2013) to ascertain that when fully loaded the coach is over the FA GAWR (and/or GVWR? - I'm not sure), otherwise approval must be elevated, in spite of having been approved previously; I recently heard this policy has since been rescinded
- Was sent out to fill everything up
- Drove back to FCCC Oasis with everything full, except for empty fresh water tank; handled horribly, even with no fresh or grey water
- Filled empty water tank at FCCC Oasis (717 lbs, 80% on RA, 20% on FA)
- Shop did the 4-corner weighing (see 4-corner figures shown); added 410 lbs on FA for driver and pass
- Was over FA GAWR, therefore mod proceeded without further ado
- Got the fix; asked for and got 99 psi front, 82 psi rear tire pressures
- Now not over on FA (new FA GAWR is 12,000 lbs; rear remains at 17.500)
- Over on RA GAWR of 17,500 only when more than 60% fresh water (again, 80% on RA, 20% on FA)
- Drove 535 mi back home with vastly improved handling - more like a lightly loaded truck in spite of still being at the overload condition (see 4-corner weights obtained)

Randy stated that we will eventually get new stickers from FCCC showing the new weights.

I don't see how anyone could NOT be over the FA GAWR (and for that matter the GWVR), which may be why the weighing policy was rescinded. I recommend you get the 4-corner weighing, even if it's no longer part of the warranty fix, and you now have to pay for it.

I believe the short-lived requirement to load everything up for a weighing served to give owners a true before-and-after picture of what the mod did for them; some of the folks were saying "they couldn't tell the difference", or there was "maybe a slight improvement". IMHO, comparing the pre- vs. post-modification overload condition, there was a huge difference in handling.

Hope this helps you.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #110
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Yes, we had the service completed last Tuesday.
what did they do to your rig specifically? i have the same model and engine and would need that done as well.

thanks
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:32 PM   #111
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what did they do to your rig specifically? i have the same model and engine and would need that done as well.

thanks
The suspension mod for the later models 390RB-40L, and case-by-case for the 390BH-40L is:
- bigger airbags up front
- bigger (275 80 LRG 22.5) XZE2 tires all around
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #112
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Let me clarify the sequence:
- Arrival at FCCC at appointed time with Randy's email to FCCC of mod approval in hand
- Was informed of new policy (07/19/2013) to ascertain that when fully loaded the coach is over the FA GAWR (and/or GVWR? - I'm not sure), otherwise approval must be elevated, in spite of having been approved previously; I recently heard this policy has since been rescinded
- Was sent out to fill everything up
- Drove back to FCCC Oasis with everything full, except for empty fresh water tank; handled horribly, even with no fresh or grey water
- Filled empty water tank at FCCC Oasis (717 lbs, 80% on RA, 20% on FA)
- Shop did the 4-corner weighing (see 4-corner figures shown); added 410 lbs on FA for driver and pass
- Was over FA GAWR, therefore mod proceeded without further ado
- Got the fix; asked for and got 99 psi front, 82 psi rear tire pressures
- Now not over on FA (new FA GAWR is 12,000 lbs; rear remains at 17.500)
- Over on RA GAWR of 17,500 only when more than 60% fresh water (again, 80% on RA, 20% on FA)
- Drove 535 mi back home with vastly improved handling - more like a lightly loaded truck in spite of still being at the overload condition (see 4-corner weights obtained)

Randy stated that we will eventually get new stickers from FCCC showing the new weights.

I don't see how anyone could NOT be over the FA GAWR (and for that matter the GWVR), which may be why the weighing policy was rescinded. I recommend you get the 4-corner weighing, even if it's no longer part of the warranty fix, and you now have to pay for it.

I believe the short-lived requirement to load everything up for a weighing served to give owners a true before-and-after picture of what the mod did for them; some of the folks were saying "they couldn't tell the difference", or there was "maybe a slight improvement". IMHO, comparing the pre- vs. post-modification overload condition, there was a huge difference in handling.

Hope this helps you.

I've HAD the 4 corner weighing. I'm still over on the back, but OK on the front. The weighing was done by a certified weigh master using certified 4 corner scales at the Escapade Rally at Gillette, WY last month.

FR HAS done the same upgrade on my coach that they've done on yours and everybody else's with this problem. I was trying to determine if your are NOW OK on BOTH axles, or not. I am NOT; still over on RA even after the upgrade.

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Old 08-09-2013, 06:35 PM   #113
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I've HAD the 4 corner weighing. I'm still over on the back, but OK on the front. The weighing was done by a certified weigh master using certified 4 corner scales at the Escapade Rally at Gillette, WY last month.

FR HAS done the same upgrade on my coach that they've done on yours and everybody else's with this problem. I was trying to determine if your are NOW OK on BOTH axles, or not. I am NOT; still over on RA even after the upgrade.

Boowho??
was the rear axle air bags upgraded too? or just the fronts?
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #114
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I

I was trying to determine if your are NOW OK on BOTH axles, or not. I am NOT; still over on RA even after the upgrade.

Boowho??
I already stated that I was over on RA GAWR of 17,500 only when more than 60% fresh water...

I also stated that the RA GAWR remains at the 17,500 stated on the sticker...

Perhaps you are under the impression that an upgrade strictly confined to front axle suspension modification would somehow alter the rear axle overload problem. If so, I can't help you.

I don't regard a 230 lb exceedance of the RA GAWR a problem, when I can make it go away by carrying 60% instead of 100% fresh water capacity (which I don't usually need), and there is no handling problem associated with the rear loading anyway. In other words, I intend to comply with the RA GAWR of 17,500, and don't find that to be a problem, as I don't need to carry more than 60% fresh water.

The coach drives with a full tank of fresh water as if it had a 19,000 lb rear axle, albeit uncertified.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:15 AM   #115
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was the rear axle air bags upgraded too? or just the fronts?
Just the FA. I suspect that the RA would have totally replaced and that would be cost prohibitive for FR.

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Old 08-10-2013, 12:22 AM   #116
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Perhaps you are under the impression that an upgrade strictly confined to front axle suspension modification would somehow alter the rear axle overload problem. If so, I can't help you.
I NEVER thoughtthat at all, Hallen01......

I'm still overweight with ALL tanks (in the rear) empty.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:07 AM   #117
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Boo

Send me half of the cash you store in that MH and i'll hold it for you. That should get you under weight and we will all be happy.
Even if they could get is up to 19500 on the rear that would give us 31500 GVW. Leaving 1500# to tow the car of our dreams. The weak link here is the 2500 transmission. Unless you have the 360 HP motor and the 3000 transmission increasing the GAW on the drive axel is not going to fix anything.
I for one wish I had bought the 360hp. I can't go back and change it and I can't afford to trade it so I work with what I have. I for one feel that FR made a mistake and although I hold them responsible they have for me made it right and given me a MH that has a lot going for it. I'm happy and that's in large part to the end results. The path to the fix was bumpy but the results are what counts. Randy and his team got on top of the issue and found a resolution. I think FR learned something about the product they produced and made it even better on 2014. Sure wish I could trade them for one. Safe travels everyone. We are staying at Traverse Bay Resort and having a ball. What a beautiful resort. Now if I can go all weak without buying a lot.



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Old 08-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #118
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Boo

Send me half of the cash you store in that MH and i'll hold it for you. That should get you under weight and we will all be happy.
Even if they could get is up to 19500 on the rear that would give us 31500 GVW. Leaving 1500# to tow the car of our dreams. The weak link here is the 2500 transmission. Unless you have the 360 HP motor and the 3000 transmission increasing the GAW on the drive axel is not going to fix anything.
I for one wish I had bought the 360hp. I can't go back and change it and I can't afford to trade it so I work with what I have. I for one feel that FR made a mistake and although I hold them responsible they have for me made it right and given me a MH that has a lot going for it. I'm happy and that's in large part to the end results. The path to the fix was bumpy but the results are what counts. Randy and his team got on top of the issue and found a resolution. I think FR learned something about the product they produced and made it even better on 2014. Sure wish I could trade them for one. Safe travels everyone. We are staying at Traverse Bay Resort and having a ball. What a beautiful resort. Now if I can go all weak without buying a lot.
Great Park - we spent a week there last July !
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:32 PM   #119
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I already stated that I was over on RA GAWR of 17,500 only when more than 60% fresh water...

I also stated that the RA GAWR remains at the 17,500 stated on the sticker...

Perhaps you are under the impression that an upgrade strictly confined to front axle suspension modification would somehow alter the rear axle overload problem. If so, I can't help you.

I don't regard a 230 lb exceedance of the RA GAWR a problem, when I can make it go away by carrying 60% instead of 100% fresh water capacity (which I don't usually need), and there is no handling problem associated with the rear loading anyway. In other words, I intend to comply with the RA GAWR of 17,500, and don't find that to be a problem, as I don't need to carry more than 60% fresh water.

The coach drives with a full tank of fresh water as if it had a 19,000 lb rear axle, albeit uncertified.
have you weighed your rig fully loaded with your all gear, clothes, and food?

cutting it that close on the rear axle unloaded would definitely mean you will be over weight with real usage...
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:16 PM   #120
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Great Park - we spent a week there last July ![/QUOTE]

Hey Phil57
You kind of mentioned that FR has improved the weight situation for the 2014's. the brochures that I see so far, indicated the same 29,710 GVWR. Maybe I am not seeing the 2014 spec.
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