Generator Replacement with LiFEPO4 Battery Bank

[ghhardin]

Last year I started the thread "High-Output Alternator" and got some great feedback.



And recently I found a guy that did it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyIJRjJtCR0

He does some very interesting intelligent integration between the alternator and the battery banks Chassis & Coach (he is on a boat).


Last year I was stymied on my research due to the limitations of Low Temp batteries but recently Battle Born announced a new low-temp LiFEPO4 battery.. It may be the missing link I need and now I want to replace my generator completely...



Here is the link to the old thread......

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...is-180017.html

[ghhardin]

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...-12-200-EN.pdf

[ghhardin]

A couple of good links:
One from ReLion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl_sLR1S6Mw

Another from Victron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

[ghhardin]

Many concerns were raised with regard to the relationship between the Alternator and the Battery Bank. The videos above describe them pretty well.


This product seems to fill in the missing link of feedback and control between the Alternator and Battery Bank





Balmar Voltage Regulation Technology | Balmar

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ghhardin

Last year I started the thread "High-Output Alternator" and got some great feedback.



And recently I found a guy that did it...

He does some very interesting intelligent integration between the alternator and the battery banks Chassis & Coach (he is on a boat).


Last year I was stymied on my research due to the limitations of Low Temp batteries but recently Battle Born announced a new low-temp LiFEPO4 battery.. It may be the missing link I need and now I want to replace my generator completely...



Here is the link to the old thread......

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...is-180017.html

I don't know what your total setup consists of so my question is do you have Solar Panels to charge batteries when parked?

I can understand the desire to eliminate a generator but are you sure you want to have to rely on running a BIG engine to charge when you have no other means (shore power, solar, wind, etc).

Even with an alternative power source like Solar there are times when it might not be adequate and for me, I'd rather run a generator that consumes far less fuel to charge my LiFePo batteries than the much larger tow vehicle/coaches engine.

If wanting to eliminate a large built in generator, I can understand and if battery charging is your only desire then a 2 Kw portable inverter type is more than enough.

Just curious.

[pdqparalegal1]

I can understand some folks not wanting to use a generator, but spending thousands of dollars to prove a point seems penny wise and pound foolish to me. Other than “destroying the planet” what is the problem?? Noise is no longer a problem with most new generators, even cheap ones.
Sorry, I’m just too dense to get it.
Have fun. but please factor in the carbon cost to produce these new miracle batteries.

[dave-g]

very interesting-
There are a few class B with a setup like this- the idea is you travel during the day - then have full power at night with no generator running- this would give you the ability to run a compressor refrigerator and ac for the over night.


This guy is doing it in a canal boat- make scene.


In the beginning of electric cars you had a 40 mile range- now its 400+ miles. Someday this will run the rv for a weekend without charging.

[ghhardin]

So, why?


One of the primary questions I am trying to answer:


When buying a new Class A, would you pay a reasonable upgrade fee to go all electric?



Its not whether I am against a generator, I just do not believe it adds much "real" value. I will provide an analysis.



I am pretty close to finalizing my design for vendor and peer review and will be developing a Bill of Materials for the project.


Truly, given the state of the art in battery technology (all electric cars) we are close to an inflection point...

[ghhardin]

Parity of Consumption - What brings me back to the “Grid”
Pragmatically, the duration of being off grid it limited to many factors running out of power is most likely not the number one factor.
Fresh Water – 100 Gallons - Consuming all the water
Grey/Black – 60/40 Gallons - Filling up the tanks
Power – Battery Storage versus Consumption versus Generation
Generator
High Output Alternator
Solar
Fuel – Diesel Fuel
Food

Minding the gap between charging is key and it comes down to the interval between charging cycles and being off grid/idle..
So, just like my Telsa, it never runs out of power if I keep it charged

[Oscarvan]

Glad to see you're still at it. Still want to do my, lesser, project. Being in the airline business I'm hoarding cash for a few though.....

[ghhardin]

So glad you jumped on this thread... I welcome your input...


.... I still want to do your heater core project on my rig.... Just had a crazy year...

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by ghhardin

So glad you jumped on this thread... I welcome your input...


.... I still want to do your heater core project on my rig.... Just had a crazy year...

Same here, and not getting any better right now..........

[ghhardin]

Please correct me if I remember wrongly.



Goal - Enough Power to run the AC units while driving without having to run the generator?


I think my master design will address this sub-design but without all the expense of Lithium...

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ghhardin

Please correct me if I remember wrongly.



Goal - Enough Power to run the AC units while driving without having to run the generator?


I think my master design will address this sub-design but without all the expense of Lithium...

You're going to require a HUGE alternator to run the A/C units. The largest 12 V alternator is a Prestolite Leese-Neville unit that produces only 320 amp.
It might be adequate but usually high output Alternators require higher RPM to operate properly. May lead to some serious issues when idling while the AC unitS are sucking down the batteries.


FWIW, if something isn't commonly done, like running A/C on 12V power, there's usually a good reason.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ghhardin

Please correct me if I remember wrongly.



Goal - Enough Power to run the AC units while driving without having to run the generator?


I think my master design will address this sub-design but without all the expense of Lithium...

You're going to require a HUGE alternator to run the A/C units. The largest 12 V alternator is a Prestolite Leese-Neville unit that produces only 320 amp.
It might be adequate but usually high output Alternators require higher RPM to operate properly. May lead to some serious issues when idling while the AC unitS are sucking down the batteries.


Don't forget to take into consideration the wire size necessary to transport the 300 Plus amps from alternator to batteries and on to inverter.

00 gauge wire is limited to only 11 feet at 320 amp. If you pursue this I hope you are prepared to deal with wires with diameters of an inch or so. Bear in mind that they aren't all that flexible and don't turn corners well.

[ghhardin]

thanks for contributing....


There are new class of high-output alternators that have been developed for the commercial market. The Leece Neville Idle Pro Extreme Produces 420Amps at 12V and 90%of that at Engine Idle Speed or a whopping 378 Amps. In the design, it is optimized to dissipate the heat at Idle while producing that amperage.







Adding a Balmer Voltage Regulator to that Alternator will even further optimize the alternators performance with regard to engine and battery performance



They do make that same device in a 24V and will reduce the wiring diameter requirements. Still looking at this..

Some Math:


<div> Cummings ISL9 380 HP (283) 1150 lb-ft Torque
Leece Neville IDLE PRO X 12V 420A Brushless Alternator
(12V * 420 Amps)/746 W/HP = 6.75 HP
At peak draw the alternator will reduce the power of the engine to 373.25HP
Or by 1.78% - Hardly noticeable – changes in altitude will have a greater affect

[ghhardin]

Alternator:
https://www.peivinlookup.com/Categor...or/Alternative

http://www.balmar.net/balmar-technology/multi-stage-regulation/

[Oscarvan]

Not run both A/C's just one.

Start up load will be absorbed by battery.

Run load around 12A 120V is 120A at 12V

Not out of the realm of possibilities.

Lots of other considerations I'm still working on. Upgrade existing? Add a generator with second pulley belt? (Done int he RAM truck world)

Biggest issue is cooling.

[Oscarvan]

Not run both A/C's just one.

Start up load will be absorbed by battery.

Run load around 12A 120V is 120A at 12V

Not out of the realm of possibilities.

Lots of other considerations I'm still working on. Upgrade existing? Add a generator with second pulley belt? (Done int he RAM truck world) What to do with the BIM?

Biggest issue is cooling. High output alternators get hot.

FWIW, if something isn't commonly done, like running A/C on 12V power, there's usually a good reason.

And that is the conservative approach. I have a long record of not following that advice, and I've been wrong more than once. I've also come up with very functional solutions, including running A/C on boats on 12V.

[ghhardin]

Doing research on the Cummins website...


I believe the "Stock Alternator is a:
Delco Remy 34SI Up To
12V / 135A


However it also supports the :
- Leece Neville 4900 Up To 12V / 320A