Gerard water heater in 2015 Berkshire XL

[gasman94]

Originally Posted by lefaivre

I have been having problems with mine water heater since I purchased the unit in 2011. Have attempted all of the fixes that have been talked about on this forum and nothing has worked so far. Just purchased a Watts high flow regulator but have not had a change to try it out yet. Problem certainly seems to be linked to flow rate. Proper purging of the lines is also important.

Lefaivre, please post your results when you use your regulator. I have been contemplating buying one, also. When we camp, it's always at a place with hookups, and we usually shower using the facilities' bath house if it is nice. So I don't have to use the Gerard heater much.


Rich

[barrie1]

Originally Posted by lefaivre

I have been having problems with mine water heater since I purchased the unit in 2011. Have attempted all of the fixes that have been talked about on this forum and nothing has worked so far. Just purchased a Watts high flow regulator but have not had a change to try it out yet. Problem certainly seems to be linked to flow rate. Proper purging of the lines is also important.

What is a Watts high flow regulator? What does it do? Help maintain water pressure? I'm almost to the stage of buying a new water pump with more pressure and installing it myself.
I was told by the dealer that the pump in our RV is underpowered from the factory for the Girard tankless.
Thanks.

[15berkxl]

Originally Posted by barrie1

I was told by the dealer that the pump in our RV is underpowered from the factory for the Girard tankless.

Thanks.

Shurflo who is a major supplier of pumps used in RV's stopped making a high flow pump last year because is quality issues I was told. This has a lot of us concerned the current pump will not have enough flow to allow the tankless heaters to work correctly.

[CAT-RN]

So my saga continues. My Girard just not working. I ll explain the latest. Let me set it up:

Water pump --off
Coach plug into 30 amp
Inverter off
Salesman switch at entry door--off
Power switch on Girard --on

So I walk into the barn where the coach is. I hear this noise?? I was sure I had the inverter in the off position but I go check inverter. NOPE-- Walk around coach and fan is running on the Girard ??? I feel the exhaust and it is warm?? About then the burner kicks on. Stays on just a few seconds kicks off. Fan never shuts off. Burner just cycles on then off. ??

I go in an open kitchen sink water. Thinking just maybe some pressure on it? Nope. No pressure.

So I shut switch on the Girard to off. That killed cycle??

I call Girard again!! Guy there laughed (not so funny to me) and said it must be possessed!! Could be I guess---he says it a the flow switch in the back that is stuck or something. He sending me some parts ??

I'm still trying to get Forest River to return my call. Hoping to figure a way to convert to a tank instead of on demand. ??

The Girard has a two year warrantee so I guess I have a year to figure it out??

Sure looks to me like the salesman switch should kill the power to the Girard?? I guess only thing salesman switch kills is the lights??? Not the frig, micro wave or the Girard!!!!

Russell

[lefaivre]

Barrie

There has been a lost of discussion as to why these on demand water heaters do not work. One thing that many of the experts point to is a low flow rate. Since the temp output of these heaters is determined by flow rate and cold cold water mix ratio .... if the input flow rate is too low, it will prematurely cause the burner to reach a high temp cut off. People have talked about reducing bottle necks in a number of ways .... one is the flow restrictions on the taps a second is the water filter and the last one is the pressure regulator that many if us used to prevent our pex from blowing out if the pressure at the camp ground is excessive.

The most common type of pressure regulator is a very small barrel shaped fitting, made out of either brass or plastic that we attach to our input hose. These fitting will typically regulate pressure to either 30 or 50 psi. This does a great job of reducing pressure and saving your piping however the output stream is normally only about 1 quarter inch and the overall flow rate is much less than the min requirement of 2.5gpm needed for the water heater.

A Watt regulated is a small brass regulator much like the one in your house that will restrict max pressure to 50psi while at the same time keeping flow rate up. Inlet and outlet AR both 3/4 Inch.

I purchased mine at.Lowes for approx.40 dollars and needed about an other 30 dollars in footings to plumb it in.

[Phil57]

Great point. I also wonder how many people are using the cheap white 1/2 inch hose. 1/2 " is not big enough.

[CAT-RN]

Just a question--- if 1/2 hose is not big enough how can the pump from the on board water be big enough ?
I very seldom use the city connection. Just use my on board water. Maybe that part of my problem?

Russell

[Phil57]

I assume the pump is a higher pressure. I was told when trying to figure my WH out to go to a 5/8 hose and it worked better. I'm sure someone smarter than me will chime in. I do know that it was one part of what I did to get it working better.

[barrie1]

Thanks lefaivre. That's a very clear description.

[CAT-RN]

Originally Posted by Phil57

I assume the pump is a higher pressure. I was told when trying to figure my WH out to go to a 5/8 hose and it worked better. I'm sure someone smarter than me will chime in. I do know that it was one part of what I did to get it working better.

Does yours work ok on the on board water?

Russell

[Phil57]

We don't use it much but when we do we need to turn the temp way down.

[barrie1]

Originally Posted by CAT-RN

Just a question--- if 1/2 hose is not big enough how can the pump from the on board water be big enough ?
I very seldom use the city connection. Just use my on board water. Maybe that part of my problem?

Russell

I know the Pex pipe in our Shockwave is not 5/8 or 1/2 inch.
When dry camping on the desert, there is only water pressure from the onboard pump.
I have noticed that when hooked up to the campsite hose bib the Girard does work somewhat better. By the way. That was after I removed the pressure relief valve I first was using.
My big thing now, is to get the dealer to install a pump that is correct for the Girard. After all, we buy them, not design or engineer them.

[CAT-RN]

Ok. Well I can tell u I'll get mine figured out. Mine been ok (just ok) since I bought it. Last July-- I really don't have any complaints till just now when it has gone silly. But I'll fix it. May end up with a tank heater. Never know. I let Girard play around for a bit because it under Warantee. Hopefully their parts help it ??

Russell

[barrie1]

Originally Posted by CAT-RN

Ok. Well I can tell u I'll get mine figured out. Mine been ok (just ok) since I bought it. Last July-- I really don't have any complaints till just now when it has gone silly. But I'll fix it. May end up with a tank heater. Never know. I let Girard play around for a bit because it under Warantee. Hopefully their parts help it ??

Russell

Hope you get it done. When you do please keep us posted on your results on what you did. I'm like you, maybe we get a tank put in.
Good luck mate, Barrie.

[CAT-RN]

I'm going to Elkhart Monday-- Everything RV there. I'll shop around at the RV remodelers. I ll see what they say.

Russell

[barrie1]

Originally Posted by CAT-RN

I'm going to Elkhart Monday-- Everything RV there. I'll shop around at the RV remodelers. I ll see what they say.

Russell

Hey Russell. If they give a quote to remove the tankless and install a tank, please let us know. I, for one are interested.

Barrie

[CAT-RN]

I'll do some bird doggin and report back on this thread. I've got to get some warrantee on my Frig. See how long that take. We have some contacts in that area.

Russell

[conceptumator]

lefaivre: Thanks for the info on the pressure device, but I think a lot of folks (me included) have a different issue. Flow and pressure is not an issue with my unit, it just flat does not work due to some other problems. The flow sensor tells the burner to turn on or off. The flow sensors in the heaters seem to be very prone to sticking in one spot or another, thus the magnetic sensor on them doesn't send the correct information to the rest of the system. On mine, if you turn on the power switch with no flow, the burner ignites - not correct function. It should not light until flow is sensed. What happens then is it overheats the water in the coil and the emergency cut off pops, shutting down the unit. If I turn it on, then turn on the hot water before the ECO kicks out, all is fine. I'll have not water right up until I shut the faucet off, at which time the unit overheats the water in the coil and kicks the ECO again. Trouble is, the on/off switch to reset it is in the WH cabinet outside - not conducive to a quick flip of the switch!

Phil57: The 1/2" hose should be fine - more than fine, in fact. Check out the link below to a flow table. It shows PVC, which is slightly different than a hose, but close enough to use. Gravity flow (with no pressure at all) through 1/2" PVC is 7 GPM. Put it under pressure of 20-100 psi and it jumps to 14 gpm. The white hoses are more than adequate for the required flow.

#1 FlexPVC®.com PVC presents GPM/GPH Flow based on PVC Pipe Size, ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by conceptumator

lefaivre: Thanks for the info on the pressure device, but I think a lot of folks (me included) have a different issue. Flow and pressure is not an issue with my unit, it just flat does not work due to some other problems. The flow sensor tells the burner to turn on or off. The flow sensors in the heaters seem to be very prone to sticking in one spot or another, thus the magnetic sensor on them doesn't send the correct information to the rest of the system. On mine, if you turn on the power switch with no flow, the burner ignites - not correct function. It should not light until flow is sensed. What happens then is it overheats the water in the coil and the emergency cut off pops, shutting down the unit. If I turn it on, then turn on the hot water before the ECO kicks out, all is fine. I'll have not water right up until I shut the faucet off, at which time the unit overheats the water in the coil and kicks the ECO again. Trouble is, the on/off switch to reset it is in the WH cabinet outside - not conducive to a quick flip of the switch!

Phil57: The 1/2" hose should be fine - more than fine, in fact. Check out the link below to a flow table. It shows PVC, which is slightly different than a hose, but close enough to use. Gravity flow (with no pressure at all) through 1/2" PVC is 7 GPM. Put it under pressure of 20-100 psi and it jumps to 14 gpm. The white hoses are more than adequate for the required flow.

#1 FlexPVC®.com PVC presents GPM/GPH Flow based on PVC Pipe Size, ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

Good to know. Maybe I'm just lucky as mine works great.

[conceptumator]

Good to know some of them are functioning correctly. Gives me hopes mine will, too, once they get it fixed correctly. They're replacing the flow valve and the ECO right now as the tech says he's had much better luck if he replaces both at the same time. Theory is sound and the mechanical side seems reasonable, just need to have all the parts working.