Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2022, 04:26 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Inverter upgrade

Have talked to a couple of members that have the XLT 45A or CA about issues with the inverter when using the cooktop and microwave together, or when using the dryer and microwave or a couple of other combination of higher power things in the coach. One mentioned even using a crockpot had throw breakers and the inverter off line…

So what would be the issue with going to a 50amp inverter in place of the 30amp that comes on the coach? While it’s still at the dealer I figured now is the time to do it if it will help us avoid having an issue with the inverter throwing the breaker. And while they are at it, was wondering about going to lithium batteries for the coach. We will probably upgrade/add more solar at some point, should we wait on batteries until then and do both at the same time?

I pickup the coach in KC next week, so time is running short…any answers/input/ideas or information greatly appreciated!
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 08:22 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 843
Your post is confusing. I think people blow breakers using these high amp draw items while on shore power not inverter power.

The inverter according to the web site is 2800watt or 23 amp. Which will pull 233 amps from the battery at full power. If you went to a 50amp or 6000watt inverter you'd pull 600amps from the battery.


I see where there is an option for 700 watts of solar with a 600ah lithium battery. But that's probably done at the factory. And would take the dealer some time to get the parts and do the installation.
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 08:44 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
I you post is confusing. I think people blow breakers using these high amp draw items while on shore power not inverter power.

The inverter according to the web site is 2800watt or 23 amp. Which will pull 233 amps from the battery at full power. If you went to a 50amp or 6000watt inverter you'd pull 600amps from the battery.


I see where there is an option for 700 watts of solar with a 600ah lithium battery. But that's probably done at the factory. And would take the dealer some time to get the parts and do the installation.
I’m the first one to admit thag what I know about any of this I can write on a thump nail with a sharpie and have space left. It’s my understanding while on shore power they are having to crawl into the basement to reset the inverter. But what do I know…

I DO know that anything I can do to avoid having to crawl around in the basement to reset the inverter on a regular…or semi regular…basis, I will gladly pay to do!

We won’t be doing a lot of boondocking, and when we do it will be no more than 1-2 nights, so should be fine on the generator.

Thanks for the info!
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 08:45 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 592
Well, first one needs to learn a little bit about power management. Just because it is installed and can be turned on does not mean everything can be operated at once. Each appliance requires a certain number of watts. More appliances turned on means more watts. There is a definite limit to available power.

Battery capacity is likewise limited as well. A 6000-watt inverter at full load will pull about 450 amps from a battery system. Considering one typically can safely deplete the battery charge to 50% to prevent damage, this says one needs about 1000 aH of capacity for 1 hour of converter usage. This can add up to needing 6 to 10 batteries. I suppose my point is.......does one really need that much electricity? If so, best connect to shore power or run a generator.

Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 09:16 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
Well, first one needs to learn a little bit about power management. Just because it is installed and can be turned on does not mean everything can be operated at once. Each appliance requires a certain number of watts. More appliances turned on means more watts. There is a definite limit to available power.

Battery capacity is likewise limited as well. A 6000-watt inverter at full load will pull about 450 amps from a battery system. Considering one typically can safely deplete the battery charge to 50% to prevent damage, this says one needs about 1000 aH of capacity for 1 hour of converter usage. This can add up to needing 6 to 10 batteries. I suppose my point is.......does one really need that much electricity? If so, best connect to shore power or run a generator.

Bob
Like an stated, I know jack about how all of this works on a Motorhome. I do understand power management, and understand that even on shore power or generator that doesn’t mean you can run everything wide open.

I’m a quick study, but at the moment have nothing to study since the coach and all the manuals are 650 miles away and what I can find on the FR manual site seem very generic. So any ‘education’ you can share would be greatly appreciated!
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 04:17 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 645
I think you can find most of the manuals on the factory web site
__________________
2012 390BH
dave-g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 06:53 AM   #7
Member
 
Rednick69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: White Hall, Arkansas
Posts: 54
Going from a 30 amp inverter to a 50 amp will require replacing wires from your inverter to your breaker panel. This in my RV would be a difficult task. If people are complaining about throwing breakers they need to stop using so much at one time. This is something I've been learning as well using small space heaters.

Your post is a little confusing as to what you want to accomplish but I did pull that part out and give my 2 cents.
__________________
2008 Berkshire 360QS w/MBE926
Rednick69 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 07:04 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 547
Biggest issue as already said is wiring. Not only will you need to upgrade the wiring to and from the breaker panel for the 120v side (and even with 50amps at the inverter you are still limited on each branch by those breakers) but you will also need to significantly upgrade your DC wiring to support double the power and may need to upgrade batteries to survive the higher draw.
__________________
-2017 Isata 5 35DB (bunkhouse)
#teambunkhouse
Phreak480 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 09:43 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
If your biggest concern is having to get into the basement to reset the inverter, you can simply turn off the inverter when on shore power. Of course, you have to remember to turn the inverter back on when disconnected from shore power, preferably right before disconnecting.


Simple to do on my 2020 34QS.


Jwleslie
jwleslie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 09:52 AM   #10
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Lakeville, IN
Posts: 504
The kitchen gfci and gen receptacles (i7B), ext freezer (i7B), gen receptacles (i8A), refrigerator (i8B), bath gfci and gen receptacles (i9A), aquahot (i9B), central vacuum (i10A) and microwave (i10B) are all on the inverter bank of breakers. What is happening is the inverter is trying to push too much current through so it will trip the 30A breaker on the side of the inverter. If the charger is on then it could trip. I would have the charger set to standby, and have the inverter set to pass through. I have attached a snippet of the 120V breaker on 2022 45A and also an appliance wattage/amperage usage chart
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	120V INVERTER Hi.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	280089   Click image for larger version

Name:	Appliance wattage ratings .jpg
Views:	33
Size:	79.6 KB
ID:	280090  
Lincman983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 02:01 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincman983 View Post
The kitchen gfci and gen receptacles (i7B), ext freezer (i7B), gen receptacles (i8A), refrigerator (i8B), bath gfci and gen receptacles (i9A), aquahot (i9B), central vacuum (i10A) and microwave (i10B) are all on the inverter bank of breakers. What is happening is the inverter is trying to push too much current through so it will trip the 30A breaker on the side of the inverter. If the charger is on then it could trip. I would have the charger set to standby, and have the inverter set to pass through. I have attached a snippet of the 120V breaker on 2022 45A and also an appliance wattage/amperage usage chart
Thanks! That’s probably the way we’ll go until we get ready to put more solar on the coach and upgrade the batteries! Appreciate the input!

While not my first coach, it’s been 30 years since my last one, and it was a 28ft class C…so looking forward to learning all I can about this one as it will be our home on the road about 40% of the year for the next 5-7 years!
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 03:03 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 2,959
Your rv is likely designed to run on 100 amps ac. Typical.

Your inverter is only 23% of that. Thus you can only run a few things when not on shore power. The fridge is a big user. so realistically only a single 15 amp circuit llke your house.

Typically the generator is also less than 100 amps.

YOu can load up 200 amps of devices if you are not careful. Blowing everything.

You have to learn to manage your power usage.

Batteries are the weak link. A big battery is only 50 amps dc or roughly 5 amps ac for an hour only!

A bigger inverter requires bigger wire on both ends.

Unless your rv has 4 big batteries it is likely you can not camp out overnight without plugging in or running the generator.
tomkatb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 08:10 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 18
We must have bad luck in our 45CA. Normally inverter is off (or reading AC pass thru) and yet we manage to trip the breaker on the inverter often. Fridge, freezer and Aquahot are on all the time. So I am thinking if any of those cycle on at the same time we are using the microwave or oven, we could easily cross 30a. Doesn’t seem too unreasonable to think we should be able to take a shower while someone else microwaves a cup of tea.

Am I think about this wrong?
jons911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2022, 10:39 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 592
No, you aren't thinking this wrong. Inverter power is limited and one should understand its limits. What appliances consume X number of watts? More items on equal more watts in demand. It is a matter of understanding and applying power management.

Just because an appliance or item is installed is no indication it along with others can be used or be on at the same time. If you need more power then shore power is the way to go. But even then, one is limited to 50 amps per side. Just remember, one is not at home where they have virtually unlimited power available.

Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 05:43 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
No, you aren't thinking this wrong. Inverter power is limited and one should understand its limits. What appliances consume X number of watts? More items on equal more watts in demand. It is a matter of understanding and applying power management.

Just because an appliance or item is installed is no indication it along with others can be used or be on at the same time. If you need more power then shore power is the way to go. But even then, one is limited to 50 amps per side. Just remember, one is not at home where they have virtually unlimited power available.

Bob
If you’ll reread the post you are answering, he’s throwing the inverter breaker WHILE ON SHORE POWER with the inverter in pass through.
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 10:24 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 592
Yes, I clearly understand the issue. The breakers on the inverter circuit per the above/earlier post total 140 amps. The total inverter circuit, per the OP, is currently protected by a 30-amp breaker.

Appliances such as Aquahot, microwave, and cooktop combined can easily demand 30 amps (3600 wats) or more total current. Going to a 50 amp circuit will require different wire size and breaker size. But even if the inverter is changed to a 5000-watt inverter, which will require much larger cables to the batteries, and place much higher current demand from the batteries. The current under full inverter load will approach 500 amps.

I still say one must realize they are not at home where almost unlimited power is available. Even an RV with a 50-amp shore power service is limited to 12,000 watts.

Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 10:38 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
Yes, I clearly understand the issue. The breakers on the inverter circuit per the above/earlier post total 140 amps. The total inverter circuit, per the OP, is currently protected by a 30-amp breaker.

Appliances such as Aquahot, microwave, and cooktop combined can easily demand 30 amps (3600 wats) or more total current. Going to a 50 amp circuit will require different wire size and breaker size. But even if the inverter is changed to a 5000-watt inverter, which will require much larger cables to the batteries, and place much higher current demand from the batteries. The current under full inverter load will approach 500 amps.

I still say one must realize they are not at home where almost unlimited power is available. Even an RV with a 50-amp shore power service is limited to 12,000 watts.

Bob
Ok, I get it, it’s not like being at home, power management, but the question isn’t about being on batteries, it’s about being in 50amp shore power and the inverter being in pass through and still throwing the inverter breaker. That’s what Jon is experiencing. And not while trying to run everything in the coach at once, but simply having ac running and trying to take a shower while some else microwaves a cup of tea and the inverter beaker throwing.

If the inverter is set to pass through and you are plugged in to shire power, is the ac/aqua hot/microwave too much power for the 50amp shore power?
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 10:43 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 592
Simple.....the inverter pass-through is limited to 30 amps per the breaker. Using multiple appliances simultaniously such as cooktop, microwave, water heater, etc. can easily add up to 30+ amps. Thus the breaker trips as it should to protect the inverter pass-through circuit.

"......ac running and trying to take a shower while someone else microwaves a cup of tea"

AC + Water Heater + Microwave = xxxxx watts. More than 3600 or 30-amps for sure.

Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 11:28 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
GnKnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
Simple.....the inverter pass-through is limited to 30 amps per the breaker. Using multiple appliances simultaniously such as cooktop, microwave, water heater, etc. can easily add up to 30+ amps. Thus the breaker trips as it should to protect the inverter pass-through circuit.

"......ac running and trying to take a shower while someone else microwaves a cup of tea"

AC + Water Heater + Microwave = xxxxx watts. More than 3600 or 30-amps for sure.

Bob
Then what your telling me is on a $500,000 list price coach that the limiting factor on what can be used and/or enjoyed at any given moment is limited no mater rather on shore power or generator to the 30amp inverter. Doesn’t sound like it was well thought out by FR.

While I’ve not owned a coach this large before, I’ve spent many miles on tour busses where we could enjoy the ac, take a shower, play video games in two areas and warm up food all while a coffeemaker was operating and never had an issue.
GnKnTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2022, 02:26 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 592
Yep, the design and installation for the inverter will allow it to pass 30 amps in bypass mode as defined by the circuit breaker on the left side of the panel. This is the main power source to the inverter circuits while in the bypass mode. (See the above-posted circuit breaker layout. Inverter 30A on the left side.)

It is possible to have more power available. It just depends on what one is willing to pay. Expectations are another add-on option Otherwise, some systems aren't really practical. Some even require going to a 24-volt system. And that is another can of worms.

Perhaps the tour bus had the generator running. There one might have 10 to 12 KW available. I recall the Willie Nelson tour bus, kitchen configuration, had a 12 KW diesel generator in addition to the propulsion engine.

Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inverter, upgrade

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:21 PM.