Looking to replace Girard gen1 water Heater

[lefaivre]

.We have a 2012 390BH60 with the Girard GSWH-1 on demand water heater.

Like most Berk owner of this vintage, this water heater has been a nightmare since day one.

We had no consistant hot water for our first 3 years of ownership. We tried every suggested solution ... removal of flow restictors, high flow regulators, up graded filters ... and several others. Finally the engineer from Girard led me thru a series of scientific test and eventually came up with a solution the worked ...sort of.

We bypassed a sensor inside the heater and kept the system on auto. This qould produce very warm water most of the time. The first time I actually had truly hot water was when I was camping at Kamloops BC last summer when the outside temps were in the region of 40c or 100f and the inlet temp were also rather high ... unlike most of my Canadian camping were the inlet temps are extremely low.

Fast forward to this summer ....

First trip out ... no hot water.

Blower would start and run briefly but burner would not fire. Sloution ... new sail switch.

Once the new switch arrived ... same issue.

Tech contacted Girard and was told that sailswitch position needed tweeking. Tweeking was done and all was well.

Second trip .... no hot water again.

I have reached the endof my ropeand I want thia piece of crap out of my unit.

My question to thia forum are as follows.

For those that have upgraded to the gen2 ... did it require a full replacement or a partial upgrade kit.

Are people happy with the gen 2 and does it provided constant hot water.

If a full replacement was done ... could the old access door be used or did it require pàinting of a new door.

Since the typical inlet temps are very low in Western Canada ... will this type of heater ever function properly

Have any Berk owners found any other solution to this common problem.

Tim

[dave-g]

Truma, Truma, Truma.


Did i mention Truma.


2 seasons of not knowing if I would take a hot shower was my tipping point. I found an rv dealer that would sell it to me and I installed it my self. Perfect endless hot water 100% of the time!


20 seconds to winterize the heater. I would never own any other heater

[dblr]

Another vote for Truma, our Girard Gen 2 was upgraded to the Truma, it is a better unit, now I believe Truma wants to be the one to install their unit so if you would choose them just want you to know about that. Good luck

[montelovers]

We upgraded our OEM water heater to a Girard 2 when we purchased our trailer this spring.
It fit in the original hole in the wall so I would imagine the Girard 2 would replace your Girard 1 without a problem (but you'd have to check the measurements) and even reuse your door.

What I have read in the manuals is that if the water temps coming into the heater are real low that it may cause a problem. There is a water flow restrictor knob on the back of the Girard 2 to 'slow down' the water flow into the heater to see if that helps it out to warm up the water faster. I just don't know how 'cold' of incoming water it can handle.
So far, in southern ontario at the campgrounds we visited this summer, no issues with our water heater but it seems your mileage may vary.
What I did find was that the heater does not like too high of water pressures though. I had done a test at home and running the water without a pressure regulator, I was hard pressed to get the water temps up above 100F. With the pressure regulator, no issues going above 100F.

[KPfulltimers]

Here's what I did...stole this idea.

https://dragonship.blog/modifications/hot-water-system/

Now I only use the on-demand when we are going to have high use. Installed a second on/off switch for the on-demand inside the coach at the access panel in the bedroom. Used the block heater circuit to power the electric hot water heater. Simplified the circuit run by tying in at the block heater outlet and running the power through conduit against the frame rather than fishing through the walls.

This electric unit provides all the hot water we normally need at a constant temp, with 1/4 the delay time to see the first hot water. Set mine up where you can either just use the electric, or just use the on-demand, or when we are plugged in and need lots of hot water send the on-demand through the electric so you have a 7 gallon heat sink and never notice a drop in temp. This required putting in a few more fitting at the manifold than shown in the link.

Think I posted a pic in another post, but will do it here if anyone decides to go this route to solve the inconsistent and slow to need issues with an on-demand.

Oh, and this was about a 3 hour modification that has removed one of the main irritants we had with the coach.

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by montelovers

We upgraded our OEM water heater to a Girard 2 when we purchased our trailer this spring.
It fit in the original hole in the wall so I would imagine the Girard 2 would replace your Girard 1 without a problem (but you'd have to check the measurements) and even reuse your door.

What I have read in the manuals is that if the water temps coming into the heater are real low that it may cause a problem. There is a water flow restrictor knob on the back of the Girard 2 to 'slow down' the water flow into the heater to see if that helps it out to warm up the water faster. I just don't know how 'cold' of incoming water it can handle.
So far, in southern ontario at the campgrounds we visited this summer, no issues with our water heater but it seems your mileage may vary.
What I did find was that the heater does not like too high of water pressures though. I had done a test at home and running the water without a pressure regulator, I was hard pressed to get the water temps up above 100F. With the pressure regulator, no issues going above 100F.

The unit in my 2013 RV is a model GSWH-2. Is that the Girard 2 model you are referring to?

[montelovers]

HikerJohn... I think so.. when I purchased it, the model number had either a 1 or a 2.. we got the 2.
See if you have a know behind the heater at the cold water inlet. You may have to play with it to either reduce or increase the flow of water into your heater.
But, if your water is super cold coming in, not sure if the heater can take care of it but it's worth a try.

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by montelovers

HikerJohn... I think so.. when I purchased it, the model number had either a 1 or a 2.. we got the 2.
See if you have a know behind the heater at the cold water inlet. You may have to play with it to either reduce or increase the flow of water into your heater.
But, if your water is super cold coming in, not sure if the heater can take care of it but it's worth a try.

My Girard works pretty well. I was just wondering if my model was the same one you have.

The only thing tricky about our Girard is that it is sensitive to someone turning on the water in the kitchen when when showering. The temperature of the shower water can fluctuate.

[lefaivre]

For those swapping out for the Truma.

Does it fit in the same hole.

What did you do about the painted door

[Mmnsc]

Originally Posted by lefaivre

For those swapping out for the Truma.

Does it fit in the same hole.

What did you do about the painted door

The Truma fits in the same hole as the Girard. They offer a black or white door and if necessary you could have it custom painted to make your color scheme

[stephencamiolo]

We have a 2014 390BH and just went through this issue. I was at my wits end with the Girard until I got a tech named Kyle who was very helpful. I think Truma is a much better heater however I went the route of upgrading to the Girard GSWH-2 because the offered the new heater, door, shipping for $500. I got the black door. Pulled the old unit out. The new unit fit perfect. I had to extend the cold, hot water lines due to the fact they’re on the opposite side. Used only the hot, ground wires, ran 2 18 gauge wires from the blue wires on the back of the heater to the new digital UCP display.
The heater does a great job holding a steady temp that you set on the digital display. Only caveat, I haven’t had the opportunity to try it with extremely cold intake water yet.
That being said I figured for $500 bucks I’d give it a shot.
If you’re not worried about the cost, o would definitely go with the Truma. My issue was finding one that could be installed by the time we left out on a 15 day trip. Truma insisted that a dealer installed the unit and I couldn’t get one fast enough.

[lefaivre]

Did you reach Kyle thru the Girard helpline?


As much as I would like to swap the the Girard gen2 ... I am more than a little gun shy after years of problems and cold water.

So far I have not been able to get a price on the Truma so I cannot make a good comparison.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by lefaivre

.We have a 2012 390BH60 with the Girard GSWH-1 on demand water heater.

Like most Berk owner of this vintage, this water heater has been a nightmare since day one.

We had no consistant hot water for our first 3 years of ownership. We tried every suggested solution ... removal of flow restictors, high flow regulators, up graded filters ... and several others. Finally the engineer from Girard led me thru a series of scientific test and eventually came up with a solution the worked ...sort of.

We bypassed a sensor inside the heater and kept the system on auto. This qould produce very warm water most of the time. The first time I actually had truly hot water was when I was camping at Kamloops BC last summer when the outside temps were in the region of 40c or 100f and the inlet temp were also rather high ... unlike most of my Canadian camping were the inlet temps are extremely low.

Fast forward to this summer ....

First trip out ... no hot water.

Blower would start and run briefly but burner would not fire. Sloution ... new sail switch.

Once the new switch arrived ... same issue.

Tech contacted Girard and was told that sailswitch position needed tweeking. Tweeking was done and all was well.

Second trip .... no hot water again.

I have reached the endof my ropeand I want thia piece of crap out of my unit.

My question to thia forum are as follows.

For those that have upgraded to the gen2 ... did it require a full replacement or a partial upgrade kit.

Are people happy with the gen 2 and does it provided constant hot water.

If a full replacement was done ... could the old access door be used or did it require pàinting of a new door.

Since the typical inlet temps are very low in Western Canada ... will this type of heater ever function properly

Have any Berk owners found any other solution to this common problem.

Tim

We had a Girard II originally in our RiverStone, it didn't have the technical problems reported for the Girard I but it would NOT get the water hot enough for a comfortable shower or to do the dishes! RiverStone eventually replaced ours with a 12 gal. Suburban. Our dealer has since stopped to bring in any Rv's with a Girard on demand water heater. Get the Truma Comfort or Comfort Plus if you can.

[Locomo14]

Originally Posted by lefaivre

.We have a 2012 390BH60 with the Girard GSWH-1 on demand water heater.

Like most Berk owner of this vintage, this water heater has been a nightmare since day one.

We had no consistant hot water for our first 3 years of ownership. We tried every suggested solution ... removal of flow restictors, high flow regulators, up graded filters ... and several others. Finally the engineer from Girard led me thru a series of scientific test and eventually came up with a solution the worked ...sort of.

We bypassed a sensor inside the heater and kept the system on auto. This qould produce very warm water most of the time. The first time I actually had truly hot water was when I was camping at Kamloops BC last summer when the outside temps were in the region of 40c or 100f and the inlet temp were also rather high ... unlike most of my Canadian camping were the inlet temps are extremely low.

Fast forward to this summer ....

First trip out ... no hot water.

Blower would start and run briefly but burner would not fire. Sloution ... new sail switch.

Once the new switch arrived ... same issue.

Tech contacted Girard and was told that sailswitch position needed tweeking. Tweeking was done and all was well.

Second trip .... no hot water again.

I have reached the endof my ropeand I want thia piece of crap out of my unit.

My question to thia forum are as follows.

For those that have upgraded to the gen2 ... did it require a full replacement or a partial upgrade kit.

Are people happy with the gen 2 and does it provided constant hot water.

If a full replacement was done ... could the old access door be used or did it require pàinting of a new door.

Since the typical inlet temps are very low in Western Canada ... will this type of heater ever function properly

Have any Berk owners found any other solution to this common problem.

Tim

We had the Atwood that wouldn’t.
Got a quote from Truma for $1450 installed no paint.
Opted for the Girard Gen II installed myself. Painted door myself total cost
$510. Set temp on control unit for shower and only use hot side. If inlet water is cold, slow the flow you’re good to go.
Jim

[gasman94]

I just ordered a gen lll Girard (2GWHAM). Everyone says Truma and they are a good product, but at 3 times the price of a gen lll, I can't justify it for approx. 6 weeks of use per year. My Gen ll just took a crap so I ordered this one. Reviews overall have been positive.


Rich

[AlexG]

None of these tankless water heaters are designed to work with pressure based controls. I switched my shower controls to thermostatic based and it solved all the problems with hot water

Alex

[gordonsick]

I agree with Alex. I installed a thermostatic shower valve and my Gerard Gen II works fine.

It’s a lot cheaper and easier to swap it the shower valve before deciding the water heater has a terminal problem.

— Gordon

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by gordonsick

I agree with Alex. I installed a thermostatic shower valve and my Gerard Gen II works fine.

It’s a lot cheaper and easier to swap it the shower valve before deciding the water heater has a terminal problem.

— Gordon

I am trying to visualize a thermostatic based shower valve. Can you please provide more description details.

My current Gerard tankless water heater has a control panel on the wall where you set your desired temperature which works pretty well unless you have to climb out of the shower wet to change the temp. How does a valve do that?

[gordonsick]

John,
The thermostatic shower valve is in the shower and not the water heater. I recommend replacing the shower valve with a thermostatic one to see if it solves the problem. If it doesn't, you can replace the water heater and still keep using the shower valve, which is very good for the military-style showers where you keep turning the water on and off.

I posted a discussion, with photos, of my installation of a thermostatic shower valve at https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...er-119716.html

I notice that it is has been a popular post for other readers.

–cheers, Gordon

[montelovers]

The one thing to remember too is... as noted by the OP.. he tries to take a shower when someone else is using water (kitchen sink for example). Since this is a 'flow based' system, any 'change' in flow will affect it. It's like at home... if you are in the shower and someone flushes the toilet, you get scalded. The Girard works in reverse.. if it senses a change in flow, it will stop heating the water until it senses the 'new' flow and kick on again.
We just came back from a week long camping trip and no issues with the Girard II so it must be something else affecting it. The only 'adjustment' you have control over on the actual machine is the flow control know behind the unit. I would also check that one to make sure it works. If you set it to full flow, check the water temps coming out of it at one of the faucets.. then, reduce it fully and check the temps again.. maybe that's the issue... who knows :-)