Molding screws get pushed out when Schwintek slide is retracted

[gordonsick]

I've contacted FR on this issue, but people are out of the office, so I thought I'd try the folks at the Berk forum for help.

The Kitchen Slide has an exterior moulding that is screwed to the non-moving part of the outer coach side wall. The moulding is held in with several screws, which are all fine, except the lower left screw when you face the slide. When I retract the kitchen slide inward, this screw gets pushed out as the slide becomes almost closed. I've attached a picture of the screw getting pushed out.

I can screw it back in, then open the slide and it stays in place. But, when I close the slide, it initially stays in place but gets pushed out when the slide is almost closed.

It seems likely that the mechanism that pulls the lower left Schwintek rack in is pushing against the screw or whatever the screw is attached to.

I attempted a fix by partially closing the slide so that the screw started to come out. Then, I installed a larger screw to get a better bite, and drilled out the outer layer of moulding so that this screw could pull the moulding back into position. But, the problem recurred.

What fix is recommended for this? Should I put in a series of heavy screws along the lower part of the moulding to hold it in? Where should the slide be set when I attempt this fix?

–Gordon

[Mmnsc]

Gordon
I would take the screw out totally and make s wooden plug out of several strips of wood and epoxy/ wood glue them in place in the hole and let set over night. Reinstall the screw the next day and that new glued wood should hold the screw in tight.
I do this all the time on screws that work out on my Berk as some of the wood is pretty soft and friable.

[RKNOLA]

Harbor Freight sells a fairly inexpensive bore scope. It might be worth it to use the bore scope to look around on the inside to see what is hitting what causing that screw to come out. Continually replacing that screw is just treating the symptoms not the cause. Best of luck. Keep us posted if you find out what is causing the problem.

[gordonsick]

The situation is getting quite bad and the screw above is also getting pushed out. I didn't run the slide out for tonight's stay.

I think I've got to learn how the Schwintek system is mounted. After dinner, I'll remove the inside mouldings to see what I can.

This mounting point is just above the rear wheel well and there is a rubberized cover inside the well. I suspect that removing that will let me see where the Schwintek drive bolts to the body floor, rather than the wall. The problem is that I need to jack up the coach for clearance. I've got a couple of 20 ton jacks, but I'm inclined to wait till I get home on the weekend where I have more space and time to do it properly and safely.

Meanwhile, I might hear from someone who knows how the Schwintek is mounted.

--Gordon

[Igave]

Please make sure you’ve got it well blocked when working between and in that area. Just in case. I’m betting you’re correct, that screw must be hitting something harder than wood molding.

[gordonsick]

I've got lots of blocks, and I'm cautious, thanks.

I've run a punch into the hole and can't see or feel anything. I tried closing the slide without the screw in place and couldn't see anything.

The pressure on the screws isn't constant. It seems to cycle.

Gordon

[Mmnsc]

Gordon
Contact Lippert who is the manufacturer of the Swintek Slide mechanism

They are very helpful

customerservice@lci1.com
*(574) 537-8900‬

[madsledet]

Originally Posted by gordonsick

The situation is getting quite bad and the screw above is also getting pushed out. I didn't run the slide out for tonight's stay.

I think I've got to learn how the Schwintek system is mounted. After dinner, I'll remove the inside mouldings to see what I can.

This mounting point is just above the rear wheel well and there is a rubberized cover inside the well. I suspect that removing that will let me see where the Schwintek drive bolts to the body floor, rather than the wall. The problem is that I need to jack up the coach for clearance. I've got a couple of 20 ton jacks, but I'm inclined to wait till I get home on the weekend where I have more space and time to do it properly and safely.

Meanwhile, I might hear from someone who knows how the Schwintek is mounted.

--Gordon

There are utube videos that are very helpful. On mine the two motors are mounted on the top -they drive a long rods that engage the two tracks on each side. A control module located elsewhere control and synchs the motors.

[gordonsick]

I couldn't find any You-tube videos that discussed the lower mounting of the Schwintek slide.

But, I did call Lippert (following advice from MMnsc above) and got some great help. There are two relevant manuals:

Owner's Manual: https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...CD_0001602.pdf

OEM Installation Manual:
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...ion_Manual.pdf

The Owner's manual is the most instructive, as it discusses replacement bearing block repair kits on Page 22.

It seems that my whole bearing block is sliding out under the pressure from the gear on the rack. I don't know what is supposed to hold it from sliding in and out.

I attach some pictures of the bearing block shifted out on my coach.

I've sent the extra information to Mitch Wirt at the Diesel Division to see if he can advise me how to get it fixed. I don't have much confidence in my dealer's repair department and they are an hour away. I'll have to decide whether to go to them or a close-by dealer who handles Tiffins and stuff like that. Maybe Mitch's advice will help me decide.

–Gordon

[madsledet]

Originally Posted by gordonsick

I couldn't find any You-tube videos that discussed the lower mounting of the Schwintek slide.

But, I did call Lippert (following advice from MMnsc above) and got some great help. There are two relevant manuals:

Owner's Manual: https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...CD_0001602.pdf

OEM Installation Manual:
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...ion_Manual.pdf

The Owner's manual is the most instructive, as it discusses replacement bearing block repair kits on Page 22.

It seems that my whole bearing block is sliding out under the pressure from the gear on the rack. I don't know what is supposed to hold it from sliding in and out.

I attach some pictures of the bearing block shifted out on my coach.

I've sent the extra information to Mitch Wirt at the Diesel Division to see if he can advise me how to get it fixed. I don't have much confidence in my dealer's repair department and they are an hour away. I'll have to decide whether to go to them or a close-by dealer who handles Tiffins and stuff like that. Maybe Mitch's advice will help me decide.

–Gordon

I thought you wanted more information about the complete system but it sounds like you already know a lot about it.

[feedfold]

I have the same problem, I used the next size bigger self tapping (same length) screw. The bottom four screws were backing out but now have stayed inplace after 500 miles and exercised in and out 10 times.

[gordonsick]

Originally Posted by feedfold

I have the same problem, I used the next size bigger self tapping (same length) screw. The bottom four screws were backing out but now have stayed inplace after 500 miles and exercised in and out 10 times.

That's good to know. How long is your slide? Mine is 16' and the fridge is on the problem end.

I'll push on the slide while my my wife presses the close button tomorrow.

Having looked at the inside and outside, I'm thinking of drilling out my screw and drilling the backing plate inside so that I can install a 1/4" machine screw and cap bolt. I'll ask Mitch about that idea if he doesn't suggest something better.

I need to be careful to clear the wiring and the rod that connects the two pinions. But I think I can figure that out.

The big question is whether the bearing block is to be held by a bolt through the floor, or by the walls. If the walls are good enough, my plan will work. And yours will continue to work if you don't strip the screws.

Gordon

[gordonsick]

I'm starting to understand more about how the Schwintek slide mechanism works, referring to my photos and the Schwintek documentation that I cited earlier.

The "trim" that had the screws popping out is actually the attachment flange of what Schwintek calls the (vertical) H Columns in Figures 20 and 21 on the Installation Manual and Page 13 of the Owner's Manual. They are to be attached to the non-sliding fixed wall of the RV on either slide of the sliding wall. These H Columns have an h-shaped cross section, with the flange sticking out as the upper extension of the lower case "h". The lower part of the "h" cross-section holds the drive mechanism, with the electric motor at the top, and a long drive shaft (they call it a Torque Shaft). The top and bottom pinion "spur" gears are mounted on the Upper and Lower Bearing Blocks, which sit inside the u-shaped part of the h cross section.

So, it appears that the H Columns are to be held in place by the RV wall by means of the flange. When my screw popped out, it was because the pinions and drive shaft are pushing the Bearing Blocks and H Column out and stripping the #10 screws (as specified in Figures 20 and 21) from the sidewall of the RV.

I find this to be a very odd type of installation, because the flange is aluminum that is almost 1/8" thick, and the screws go through it to hold the flange against the RV wall at a point where it has a sandwich of much thinner aluminum and fibreglass. My RV used self-tapping #10 screws and the installer had a lot of trouble breaking the heads off of the screws as he attempted to drill and tap them through the thick flange. Moreover, there is no need to thread the flange itself. It would be much better to drill out the flange so that the self-tapping screws just slide in and do their threading work on the thin aluminum and fibreglass sidewall. It would have been best to do this before placing the flange against the wall.

So, Feedfold's solution of putting in a larger screw is appropriate. I also did this, after drilling out the flange so that the screw could rotate freely in the flange. I only needed to thread the sidewall. But, my heavy 16 foot slide was too much for my threads in the thin sidewall, so that the bigger screw also popped out.

Fortunately, my RV has the optional In-Wall column clamp PN 389787 that is specified in Figure 24 of the installation manual. It is installed inside the RV wall. The H Column Flange (outside) and the column clamp (inside) sandwich the wall. My plan is to drill from the stripped hole outside through to the column clamp with a 1/4" hole and put a bolt and nut to hold the sandwich together. I'll need to make careful measurements to make sure that I'm not drilling through drive shaft and the power wires, but I'm pretty confident that they are closer to the slide than the flange.

I'll see if I can communicate with Forest River on Monday before I do this. I'm back on the road on Wednesday.

I apologize, in advance, for not posting the diagrams from the Installation Manual. They should be covered by copyright. So, if you really want to follow my discussion, you should download the manuals for yourself.

–Gordon

[feedfold]

Yes, mine is 16ft. with refrig on that end also.

[gordonsick]

I've finished my diagnosis and finished my repairs. I'll make another post summarizing my findings, since I believe that this will be a common problem with people who have long and heavy slides with the Schwintek mechanism installed in the way that the manufacturer recommends.

I found that the inside In-wall column clamp strips are made of 1/8" aluminum, rather than steel, so my original plan to thread them for a 1/4"-20 bolt would be insufficient, even if it was stronger than the original system.

So, I drilled through the whole wall from the H-column outside to the In-wall column clamp inside and installed a 1/4"-20 screw (length 2 1/2"), with a nut inside that is secured with Loctite.

I installed two such screws at the rear end of the kitchen slide, as close to the Schwintek lower rack as possible. This is the slide where the #10 screws were stripped, so I wanted to make it very secure.

At the front, I installed one such screw, since the H-column was still securely held by the #10 screws. I didn't want it to fail while I was on the road.

Attached are pictures of the repairs. The first two are the inside and outside of the rear of the kitchen slide with two screws installed. The second two are the outside and inside of the kitchen slide at the front, with one screw for pre-emptive security.

–Gordon

[gordonsick]

This is an executive summary of the problem and my solution. I believe that long and heavy slides using the Schwintek mechanism are likely to have this problem, and will need this repair at some point. This is assuming that the manufacturer (like Berkshire) follows the standard Schwintek installation procedure, which is not very strong.

Diagnosing the Problem
The problem initially appears as if some outside wall "trim" is getting pushed out when the Schwintek slide is retracted. It looks like the first photo below. At first, this seems like an innocuous problem, but it is a vey serious problem that needs your immediate attention. A temporary work-around is to have one or two people push on the slide as it is being retracted.

Understanding the Problem
The screws are not intended to hold in a simple piece of trim. They hold the Schwintek "H Column" in place, and when they are pulled out, the H-Column is becoming detached from the RV wall. The H-Column contains all of the Schwintek gears and motors that pull the slide in and out, so the problem is that the slide is becoming detached from the RV wall! The "trim" that is coming out is actually the mounting flange for the H-Column.

The problem arises from the poorly designed mounting system that is recommended by Schwintek. They recommend using lightweight #10 self-tapping screws to go through the mounting flange and into the RV sidewall. The problem is that the mounting flange is heavy extruded 1/8" aluminum, but the RV wall is a thin sandwich of sheet aluminum and fibreglass. Normally, you would want to screw through light material to attach it to heavy material, but their installation procedure is to screw through heavy material to attach it to light material.

As the Schwintek mechanism moves the wall in and out, the flange is the only thing connecting the mechanism to the wall. When the slide goes out, the flange presses against the RV wall and there is no pressure on the screws. But, when the slide goes in, the flange pulls against the screws and tends to rip them out. Just think about it, the whole heavy slide is pulling itself in by means of a couple of #10 screws that are threaded into a lightweight sandwich of aluminum sheet metal and fibreglass. This will almost assuredly fail if the slide is heavy.

Repairing the Problem
The repair involves drilling a hole for a 1/4" screw to go from the "trim" flange to the inside of the coach and securing it with a nut. Inside my coach, there is an optional "In Wall Column Clamp" strip that I also drilled through. If this is not present on the coach, I recommend a large fender washer. The idea is to sandwich the RV wall between the H-column flange and the inner clamp or washer.

Plan this out carefully to avoid drilling through the wires that go through the rubber tube on the H-column. You want to drill through the flange only, and not the rest of the H-column, which contains the Schwintek operating mechanism. And, the bolt should be installed close to the height of the Schwintek gear rack.

When the slide is extended, the flange presses against the outside of the wall. When the slide is retracted, the through-bolt pulls the Column Clamp against the inside of the wall.

I attach photos of the pre-emptive upgrade I did to my slide so that the problem wold not occur.

In earlier posts, I explained how I used two screws for greater strength, once the problem had occurred. I also have links to the Schwintek installation and owners manuals for reference.

–Gordon

[feedfold]

Thanks for your work on this Gordon.
I will be doing the same thing next week.

John Dickman
Flowery Branch, GA
2016 34QS
2017 Ford Escape tow

[gordonsick]

I've now worked on both ends of my kitchen slide and found the front of the living room slide tearing the flange/molding screws out. For the last two jobs, I found it easier to work from inside and drill outward because I can see what I'm doing better in order to drill right beside the "n" part of the "h-column" to get the most strength. I just check to make sure that I'm not drilling into the screws that are already outside.

–Gordon

[feedfold]

Originally Posted by gordonsick

I've now worked on both ends of my kitchen slide and found the front of the living room slide tearing the flange/molding screws out. For the last two jobs, I found it easier to work from inside and drill outward because I can see what I'm doing better in order to drill right beside the "n" part of the "h-column" to get the most strength. I just check to make sure that I'm not drilling into the screws that are already outside.

–Gordon

I installed bolts in the top also Gordon just to make it really secure and replaced all the screws on the outside with the larger screws.
The good thing now is when I move 16ft. slide in & out it makes less popping and cracking noises.
Thanks, John[emoji16]

[RSchleder]

I'm sure most of you know this but it's worth mentioning. When drilling a hole from the back side of a painted panel, place a piece of masking tape over the painted area. This simple trick stops the exiting drill bit from chipping the paint/clearcoat and gives a nice clean finished hole in the painted panel.

PS- let the drill do it's job, don't push too hard as the drill is exiting the panel.