RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2015, 08:38 AM   #41
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,224
There are signs that some manufacturers out there are paying attention to all the complaints of poor workmanship and are producing higher quality units at only a slightly higher price point. As word gets around that there are options that do not require extensive warranty repairs, down time and frustration, more manufacturers will be forced to change or lose sales. The auto industry is a shinning example. It is interesting that one of the most if not the most discussed topic is warranty work while warranty repair threads are less prevalent on forums for other high end products
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 09:40 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennise View Post
I you want another example of shoddy unprofessional workmanship, have a look under your coach or trailer frame sometime.

There you will see a 'rat's-nest' of undressed poorly secured and exposed wiring hanging down and loose from your frame here and there. If you drive in any area with marginal ground clearance, some of that wiring will surely get ripped out by catching on rocks or other ground objects. Should one suffer from a 'tire bomb', those tire fragments will rip out some of that loose wiring as actually did happen to a friend. Really now, how much more cost would be incurred by the addition of a couple dozen 'tie-wraps to secure the wiring'?

Detroit suffered from poor automotive quality in the 70's while the Japanese steadily hammered Detroit with superior quality automotive vehicles. If RV manufacturers here continue producing poor quality products, might they experience the same competition from another country or someone more attuned to quality? It's not ALWAYS about $$$$$.

Dennise, I don't know what kind of RV you're talking about but it's certainly not a Berkshire. I've been to the plant and I've been all over my Berk, plumbing and wiring are coordinated, organized and securely fastened.


Paul
Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums
Paulie Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 09:50 AM   #43
Mod free 5er
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,705
I fully understand the frustration with the quality of the units, but I doubt very seriously if anyone with complaints has ever worked a day on their own job without making mistakes or taking shortcuts when the boss is on your case constantly. Lighten up a little folks. The workers at FR are mostly Amish and are diligent, hard working individuals just trying to do the best they can in an environment they didn't create. Y'all need to direct your gripes to the folks that deserve it which is management and certainly not constantly bad mouth the poor workers on the line. They only do what they are told to do.
OldCoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:01 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cape Breton
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
I fully understand the frustration with the quality of the units, but I doubt very seriously if anyone with complaints has ever worked a day on their own job without making mistakes or taking shortcuts when the boss is on your case constantly. Lighten up a little folks. The workers at FR are mostly Amish and are diligent, hard working individuals just trying to do the best they can in an environment they didn't create. Y'all need to direct your gripes to the folks that deserve it which is management and certainly not constantly bad mouth the poor workers on the line. They only do what they are told to do.
+2
__________________
2015 Sandpiper 30IOK
2019 GMC 2500HD 6.6 Duramax
X96mnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:08 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home is where I park it
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campin Cajun View Post
I'll turn the page a little. I have had very few problems with my Berkshire. Yes I did have a few on the shake down, but for the most part I have been lucky.

Knock on wood.
Me too.... However, the number of posts in this thread just in the last 24 hours speak VOLUMES as to how many feel about their coaches. Except for CS, which everyone seems to love, FR is not very well thought of. That surprises me, based upon the "love fest" most of us have had with Randy and his crew.

I have always referred to my Berk as "the Chevrolet of coaches" because it's a "no frills" unit. I too have always felt the workmanship was mediocre at best. Still, I can't complain at this point, since I bought mine for $20K under average wholesale and have had almost NO problems at all.



Boowho??
boowho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:09 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
RSchleder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,413
Old Coot- I agree, the issue is NOT the worker on the line! The issue of poor quality in a product is generally not operator driven/caused. What causes a poor quality product is not poor workmanship. It is poor engineering design, no or poorly defined production methods, tools that don't work, processes that don't consistently give the same results, unrealistic expectations by management for operator/plant output. I've seen it way too many times in my long career!!!
__________________
Days camping (2016)----181 days
Days camping (2017) --- 82 days
2016 Wildcat MAXX 28RKX (33' TT), 2007 13' Scamp
2015 Ram Laramie Hemi, w/air suspension
30 years RV'ing
11 different RV's
RSchleder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:12 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home is where I park it
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob View Post
There are signs that some manufacturers out there are paying attention to all the complaints of poor workmanship and are producing higher quality units at only a slightly higher price point. As word gets around that there are options that do not require extensive warranty repairs, down time and frustration, more manufacturers will be forced to change or lose sales. The auto industry is a shinning example. It is interesting that one of the most if not the most discussed topic is warranty work while warranty repair threads are less prevalent on forums for other high end products
Flybob, I've heard just the opposite.... Supposedly, due the record number of coaches being sold now, the entire industry has gone into a building frenzy and is cutting even more corners to get as many out the door as possible.

Maybe not true, but that's the poop I've heard. Allegedly makes the 3-5 year old units actually hold their value better, since they will more in demand.

Just sayin'....... YMMV.

Boowho??
boowho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:32 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
captnrick3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbendr View Post
Yes, they know about it all and of course have approved of and had the warranty work performed. Now for this latest issue , I sent an email to Randy Houser and followed up with a call to Mike Bucowski. Mike agreed that my coach has more and bigger issues than most and I am now waiting for a call back from them.
Wow, sorry to hear of all those issues. I see you are in Temecula, not far from me (Santee). Are you using a dealer in San Marcos or Temecula? I think I might be tempted to plan a really nice sight seeing trip to Elkhart, Indiana.
__________________
2015 Legacy 340KP
2012 Wrangler Sport
captnrick3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 10:44 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
nomad297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy0374 View Post
All it would take is one manufacturer of rv's, not the high end rigs, but the rv's for us everyday people, to turn out a reasonably priced, quality built rig. One that was built to a quality standard, and not to fill a quota for the day. One where the workers who were building it were told to take a bit of extra time and effort to do it right.
That manufacturer would set a standard that sooner or later the others would have to meet.
For something like that to happen would require a screeching halt of all sales of new units by prospective buyers.
But as we all know, buyers of new rigs are always wearing the "blinders" and only see the "new glitz n glamor" of that new rv their looking at.
Grumpy
We have this:

Rockwood.

Bruce
__________________
2016 Rockwood Windjammer 3029W Diamond
2015 Chevy 3500HD LTZ 6.0 Crew Cab 4x4 Long Bed 4.10:1 SRW
nomad297 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 03:14 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Michigan/Fort Myers
Posts: 3,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
I fully understand the frustration with the quality of the units, but I doubt very seriously if anyone with complaints has ever worked a day on their own job without making mistakes or taking shortcuts when the boss is on your case constantly. Lighten up a little folks. The workers at FR are mostly Amish and are diligent, hard working individuals just trying to do the best they can in an environment they didn't create. Y'all need to direct your gripes to the folks that deserve it which is management and certainly not constantly bad mouth the poor workers on the line. They only do what they are told to do.

OC thank you so very much. I have tried to stay off the doom and gloom posts but it just gets to much sometimes. Well said as usual.



Phil57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 03:36 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
I-RV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
Posts: 1,024
You all have vented your frustrations about Quality and Workmanship with many laying the blame on workers, quality control or management. I agree with a lot of what you all are saying.

I however do blame a lot on design. The designers should specify how things are put together, what components are installed and keep vigilant in making corrective action as pitfalls are brought to light (seemingly mostly by customers). I don't understand why for five model years that customers had to suffer with the Girard water heater. Do not understand why even on new models that plates need to be installed under wardrobe slides. I led a crusade in early 2012 to get FR to change the drivers window. FR took the dual pane out of the 2011 because it was clouding up and the window rattled like a banshee. I was the first MH to have the window changed out.So they made the slide smaller to not rattle. Not quite a 100% fix. I can go on and on.

Yes, management has final say, but they probably are not techies. FR needs a good middle management design team - imho
Hank
__________________
Gale & Hank- 2012 Berkshire 390BH
I-RV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 03:46 PM   #52
Georgia Rally Coordinator
 
aceinspp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: GA
Posts: 17,946
They just need someone there to take the ball and run with it. Folks have a lot of good ideas and they should take note. When I toured the plant at Millersburg I had a suggestion about the pantry door that he wrote down and he indicated it could be implement as he is the product development person which also gave us our tour. Later RJD
__________________
2020 Shasta Phoenix SPF 27RKSS
2018 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4 3:73 gearing. Traded 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0, 4:10
Traded 2015 30WRLIKS V-Lite
Days camped 2019 62
Days camped 2020 49
aceinspp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 03:57 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
accumack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Every problem I have had has been with something that ForestRiver did not manufacture. The supplier are the problem in my book. You only have so much control. Everyone wants it to be perfect at this price point how can you expect that? Randy and the Berkshire crew are the best in the industry in my book. We get one heck of a value for the money that is why I bought it! You want it perfect be prepared for sticker shock and I guarantee you wouldn't buy it!
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390-rb-40, upgraded tires and front axle airbags, 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2 door, Blue Ox baseplate and BlueOx aladdin tow bar, Blue Ox Patriot brake system, wiring run through right frame rail and homemade led taillight bar.FB.
Ham KG5LTL.
accumack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:22 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
captnrick3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
I fully understand the frustration with the quality of the units, but I doubt very seriously if anyone with complaints has ever worked a day on their own job without making mistakes or taking shortcuts when the boss is on your case constantly. Lighten up a little folks. The workers at FR are mostly Amish and are diligent, hard working individuals just trying to do the best they can in an environment they didn't create. Y'all need to direct your gripes to the folks that deserve it which is management and certainly not constantly bad mouth the poor workers on the line. They only do what they are told to do.
Well put!
__________________
2015 Legacy 340KP
2012 Wrangler Sport
captnrick3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:28 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
I-RV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
Posts: 1,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by accumack View Post
Every problem I have had has been with something that ForestRiver did not manufacture. The supplier are the problem in my book. You only have so much control. Everyone wants it to be perfect at this price point how can you expect that? Randy and the Berkshire crew are the best in the industry in my book. We get one heck of a value for the money that is why I bought it! You want it perfect be prepared for sticker shock and I guarantee you wouldn't buy it!
Forest River doesn't manufacture, they procure from suppliers and assemble what the FR designers call out. The suppliers are not the problem.
__________________
Gale & Hank- 2012 Berkshire 390BH
I-RV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:39 PM   #56
Phat Phrog Stunt Team
 
TURBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,499
Yawn

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "24 nights"
TURBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 05:16 PM   #57
Mod free 5er
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-RV View Post
Forest River doesn't manufacture, they procure from suppliers and assemble what the FR designers call out. The suppliers are not the problem.
When an appliance fails, it is definitely the supplier and has nothing whatsoever to do with the rv design. Suppliers need to furnish certifications that whatever they ship has been tested.
OldCoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 05:32 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
accumack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-RV View Post
Forest River doesn't manufacture, they procure from suppliers and assemble what the FR designers call out. The suppliers are not the problem.
You are right we are the problem is wanting something for less! I have worked in the manufacturing sector Retired now . Everyone wants something and are not willing to pay for it. You buy inexpensive and want a million dollar coach. Not going to happen. Would you be willing to pay 600K plus for your Berkshire? I don't think so you want some thing for nothing. What did your house cost? An RV is a house on wheels so you have several different things going on. Get over it!
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390-rb-40, upgraded tires and front axle airbags, 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2 door, Blue Ox baseplate and BlueOx aladdin tow bar, Blue Ox Patriot brake system, wiring run through right frame rail and homemade led taillight bar.FB.
Ham KG5LTL.
accumack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 05:33 PM   #59
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,224
COPQ is is more expensive than doing it right the first time. The cost to replace and ship a major component and then pay to have it replaced is easily more than spending an extra hour or two to get it right the first time.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 05:37 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
accumack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
I worked in the parachute industry for 25+ years and I can tell you the certs mean nothing from the suppliers. Most people wouldn't pay what it costs to make sure the venders are supplying materials that meet your spec. It is much cheaper to fix after something fails.
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390-rb-40, upgraded tires and front axle airbags, 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2 door, Blue Ox baseplate and BlueOx aladdin tow bar, Blue Ox Patriot brake system, wiring run through right frame rail and homemade led taillight bar.FB.
Ham KG5LTL.
accumack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
quality

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.