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Old 08-18-2015, 05:47 PM   #61
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I worked in the parachute industry for 25+ years and I can tell you the certs mean nothing from the suppliers. Most people wouldn't pay what it costs to make sure the venders are supplying materials that meet your spec. It is much cheaper to fix after something fails.
Not what I meant, just a cert to verify that they tested the units they ship. I know what DOD certifications imply and @ Lockheed, no certs, no receiving it into the plant. We even went to the suppliers to verify them. The rv industry could not exist using the DOD standards. We paid in excess of $100,000.00 for a hydraulic pump, motor and reservoir you could easily load on the tailgate of a pickup. It was certified good for 27 yrs of service and I watched the accelerated testing of it for verification.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:02 PM   #62
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We built a new house I can tell you the Berkshire has had fewer problems than a new house and it costs a lot more and does not travel down the road! I think we have a bargain.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:31 PM   #63
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Not what I meant, just a cert to verify that they tested the units they ship. I know what DOD certifications imply and @ Lockheed, no certs, no receiving it into the plant. We even went to the suppliers to verify them. The rv industry could not exist using the DOD standards. We paid in excess of $100,000.00 for a hydraulic pump, motor and reservoir you could easily load on the tailgate of a pickup. It was certified good for 27 yrs of service and I watched the accelerated testing of it for verification.
OC - glad to see someone else pull aviation and government regulations into some RV discussions here. But you're correct - if the entire RV manufacturing industry had to abide by the minimum standards that the aviation industry has to,then quality would be much much better. I have said here before if I was in charge of Quality Assurance and Quality Control at any RV manufacturer,things would be much better. But of course,the cost would be higher up front,but reduced in the "Let the dealer fix it" area after the unit is out the factory door.

I might also consider hiring you as my assistant,but you would have to improve your relationship skills first.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:36 PM   #64
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...I might also consider hiring you as my assistant,but you would have to improve your relationship skills first.
Don't think so, I was the Source Validation Team leader and had 3 others working for me when we did audits.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:38 PM   #65
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We found certs to be bogus and we setup our own test lab it increased the price of our parachutes substantially but all materials met or exceeded our specs . You cannot believe the how much we rejected and someone else accepted our rejects because they relied on the certs.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:39 PM   #66
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Don't think so, I was the Source Validation Team leader and had 3 others working for me when we did audits.
That's what I mean - you were probably authorized 10 more,but ...
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:46 PM   #67
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That's what I mean - you were probably authorized 10 more,but ...
As usual, you're wrong again.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:47 PM   #68
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We found certs to be bogus and we setup our own test lab it increased the price of our parachutes substantially but all materials met or exceeded our specs . You cannot believe the how much we rejected and someone else accepted our rejects because they relied on the certs.
Bogus certs in our business was/is criminal and was/is punished.
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:09 PM   #69
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:26 PM   #70
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When FR buys say a fridge from Dimetic they are told how it must be installed. Dometic then audits FR with in site inspections to insure the product is being installed correctly. From year to year the instal may be different as everyone gets more experience with what works best. So from year to year the instal specs can be totally different. FR doesn't just decide how to install a fridge or a slide out bit is spec from the manufacture. It seems that so many think that this whole industry is some kind of fly by night gypsy outfit.
That couldn't be further from the truth. FR employees care deeply about quality control and they work extremely hard in less than ideal conditions. So why don't they build a new modern facility? Remember a few year ago when the industry about went belly up? That's why. Some of these buildings will be empty again as the economy changes.
I hate these kind of posts because people end up with hurt feelings and it accomplishes absolutely nothing. No one feels better and a bunch of wrong info is tossed out there as fact.
My recommendation is to talk to the factory warranty people and work through the issues in a calm matter. I can only speak for Diesel Division when I say that FR will make it right. That is a fact that they have proven over and over. So get a grip on the issues figure out if you have a bad dealer and find a good one and get the issues fixed. No one on this forum is a RV repair person and lots of the info is BS.



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Old 08-18-2015, 08:41 PM   #71
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Phil - you have your opinions here and rightly so. Some of us have diffenent opinions,also rightly so.

But how can you not agree with some of problems and just poor basic workmanship - such as sawdust and other debris being left being during assembly,ducts not being connected,etc that are so simple that anyone with any pride in his/hers workmanship would never be condoned?

And while it is probably not the fault of any of the workers,how can you explain the industries continuing to install sub quality tires?
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:54 PM   #72
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Is it sub quality tires or are people drive to fast. The tires are rated at 65MPH. I have an almost constant stream of bumper an 5th wheels pass me at 65. Does anyone weigh the trailer? Most never have and load them up with everything they want. I have several friends that run stock tires with zero Issues. I don't do I have no first hand info.
Could the quality in the RV industry be better? Yes. Is it crap? Far from it. In fact they turnout a pretty good product and are taking steps to improve.
I never said it was a perfect industry but I don't see the above posts being fair or accurate. There is always a "rest of the story " and we seldom get to hear it.



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Old 08-18-2015, 09:01 PM   #73
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Is it sub quality tires or are people drive to fast. The tires are rated at 65MPH. I have an almost constant stream of bumper an 5th wheels pass me at 65. Does anyone weigh the trailer? Most never have and load them up with everything they want. I have several friends that run stock tires with zero Issues. I don't do I have no first hand info.
Could the quality in the RV industry be better? Yes. Is it crap? Far from it. In fact they turnout a pretty good product and are taking steps to improve.
I never said it was a perfect industry but I don't see the above posts being fair or accurate. There is always a "rest of the story " and we seldom get to hear it.
Why is it that we seldom get to hear any responses from the manufacturers justifying why simple things are done or not done in the manufacturing process?

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Peace.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:14 PM   #74
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Why is it that we seldom get to hear any responses from the manufacturers justifying why simple things are done or not done in the manufacturing process?



I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.



Peace.

We had a sit down with the Diesel Div general manager, the head engineer, and the plant manager at the Goshen. It was for woman first and then men. We each had a hour long opportunity to ask questions and make recommendations. About half or less of the diesel owners were there. They listened took notes and asked questions. It was very productive and hopefully helpful.
I don't think we are that far apart on our expectations in regards to the RV industry and our own purchase. We most likely Agree on more than we disagree.



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Old 08-18-2015, 09:21 PM   #75
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No one on this forum is a RV repair person
I would guess that MOST people on this forum are RV repair persons.

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Old 08-18-2015, 10:49 PM   #76
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We had a sit down with the Diesel Div general manager, the head engineer, and the plant manager at the Goshen. It was for woman first and then men. We each had a hour long opportunity to ask questions and make recommendations. About half or less of the diesel owners were there. They listened took notes and asked questions. It was very productive and hopefully helpful.
I don't think we are that far apart on our expectations in regards to the RV industry and our own purchase. We most likely Agree on more than we disagree.

Phil, I for one am in total agreement with your comments. My 2014 390BH-60 is virtually headache free, I probably just jinxed myself. I've been to the Diesel Division plant. I've met with Randy, Andy T and Dave. I've personally watched the men at work. There are teams that do specific functions at each stop on the line. The plant completes 7 various coaches a week, Legacy Berk, Berk XL and Charleston. I don't believe the turn over of employees is high and they do take pride in their work. I'm a relative newcomer, March 2015, I can say this; most of the complaints I've read about are vendor supplied complaints. Steps, water heater etc.
Here is my perspective of this thread, there are issues with the Berks et. al. If you have a fifth wheel or a TT, complained on your respective venues. Don't muddy up the waters on the Berk forum. We are here to help each other, Berkshire owner with odd issues that arise. Ya'll are welcome to listen in but we don't need to compare apples to oranges.
Nuff said, sorry for the rant.


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Old 08-19-2015, 07:09 AM   #77
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Ye I am a little crazy,,,
but this would fix about 99% of the problems,,,
Each Dealership should have one very experienced service guy,,, probably trained by the factory,,, when ever a dealership received a new unit the service guy or girl would go thru the unit with a fine tooth comb and fix everything they could find wrong,,, the Dealership would then be able to charge that time back to the factory !!!
That service person would also be the one to do walk-thru when the unit was sold !!!


Not only does the workmanship @ the factory need to improve,,,
But the quality of prep work MUST improve @ the dealerships !!!
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:40 AM   #78
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I love my berk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:50 AM   #79
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2005 gtwn 375ts I gave up IM putting lipstick on this PIG and moving it to the next victim


Problems roof , electrical , generator, steps, ceiling
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:01 AM   #80
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Ye I am a little crazy,,,
but this would fix about 99% of the problems,,,
Each Dealership should have one very experienced service guy,,, probably trained by the factory,,, when ever a dealership received a new unit the service guy or girl would go thru the unit with a fine tooth comb and fix everything they could find wrong,,, the Dealership would then be able to charge that time back to the factory !!!
That service person would also be the one to do walk-thru when the unit was sold !!!


Not only does the workmanship @ the factory need to improve,,,
But the quality of prep work MUST improve @ the dealerships !!!
How many dealerships do you think would take the time or expense to send a tech to the factory for training? And which brand would they choose to have the tech trained on? Also, you think that the dealer takes forever to repair a coach? Wait until you bring in your unit and the dealer says that the tech trained on your brand has x number or walk throughs, PDI's and other coaches of your brand ahead of you waiting for work. It would take a lot longer to get work done on your unit. JMHO
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