Surge Protector... booster... or both? - Page 4

DaveandSue · 08-25-2015, 08:03 AM

Exactly what he said I said. Sorry posting from my phone. Don't go cheap!

rclogg · 08-25-2015, 08:18 AM

We have a Portable EMS-50. Didn't want to take apart the interior with so many camping days reserved (Nine as of today) so we bought the portable unit. The line in is behind my fridge and plan to remove the fridge over the winter, has anyone ever mounted a portable one permanently, can a remote display be hooked up to the portable unit? I thought Id throw it out here before I contact the company.

boowho · 08-25-2015, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger2650

gasman94:
I read the information you sent and I noticed that the autoformer should be first in line before the EMS. BooWoo has a point. The only way your going to find out if there's an open ground is to check circuitry with EMS first, then if everything is good, install the autoformer ahead of the EMS.
What do you think?
Roger

Understand there is a HUGE difference between open NEUTRAL and open GROUND. Open ground can create a shock hazard, although not an absolute that it well shock you. Open neutral will destroy everything in the coach.

If you look at your 50A plug, you will see four prongs. One is ground. Then there is neutral and finally two "hot" prongs that give 110V EACH. They are usually named L1 and L2 for line 1 and line 2. Without the neutral those two 110 lines add up to a single 240V line! OUCH!!

Not intending to be talking down to anyone reading, BTW.

Boowho??

craigster_mi · 08-25-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rclogg

We have a Portable EMS-50. Didn't want to take apart the interior with so many camping days reserved (Nine as of today) so we bought the portable unit. The line in is behind my fridge and plan to remove the fridge over the winter, has anyone ever mounted a portable one permanently, can a remote display be hooked up to the portable unit? I thought Id throw it out here before I contact the company.

that's what I did with mine. can take it out and pre-test pedestal or by-pass if needed

craig

deebarjay · 08-25-2015, 08:20 PM

o.k I understand how that all applies to a 50 amp service.....an open ground....would that not make the campground pedestal hot. ....what affect does it have to trailer internals. is there a possibility of a shock ?

I can see an open neutral in a 50 amp service doubling up to 240v and smoking everything, so is there a warning there for 30 amp setups? I guess high and low voltage 104/132 can be a problem, but low voltage would just shut down ac right ? .... not necessarily wreck anything or does it ?
and what is the possibility of an over voltage in a 30 amp service.....120 is 120. where would the overvoltage come from?

Roger2650 · 08-25-2015, 08:23 PM

BooWoo:
Will the EMS detect the open neutral and open ground without letting 240V through?
I just got my EMS from Progressive yesterday and would like to install it in the coach bay along with the Hugh's autoformer. I have been talking with gasman94 about this and he indicated to me that I should talk to Hugh's about which unit should be installed in series for the best protection of the coach. I was going to call them tomorrow (8/26/15). If you go back to the information that gasman94 sent, it indicated that the autoformer should be ahead of the EMS when installed in series.
I will let you know what they say.
Roger

davel1971 · 08-25-2015, 08:27 PM

the EMS shuts off power when voltage gets above 132, so yes

Roger2650 · 08-25-2015, 08:41 PM

davel1971:
Do you think the autoformer should be installed ahead of the EMS unit? The autoformer has surge protection also. I'm not sure it could handle either an open ground or open neutral. That is one of the questions I have for Hugh's. I'm thinking that the EMS should be used first to see weather any of the conditions exist, and if there isn't a problem, then the autoformer could be installed ahead of the EMS to maintain the voltage that the sensitive equipment require.
Thanks...........Roger

davel1971 · 08-25-2015, 08:48 PM

I would have to agree with what you are thinking Roger, but I would see what they have to say

boowho · 08-25-2015, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger2650

BooWoo:
Will the EMS detect the open neutral and open ground without letting 240V through?

Roger

Yes, it will..... If there is any error condition either when you plug in OR if one occurs anytime WHILE you're plugged in, then the EMS will shut everything down BEFORE any damage can happen. It's like a GFI; the shutdown circuit is so fast that it can kill the input current before it can damage anything.

Any errors that DO occur will display an error code on a readout on your convenience panel, so you can tell what the problem is (assuming you have the fixed unit). On the portable unit, the code reads out in a small window on the device itself.

I know nothing about the Autoformer, so can't comment on it.

Boowho??

Roger2650 · 08-25-2015, 08:57 PM

davel1971:
This has really been a confusing subject to say the least. I really want to get to the bottom of it though. I think there are some serious problems out there, when it comes to coach electrical. I have been using the Hugh's autoformer for about a year now. I really like the unit. It runs pretty cool, so it can be placed in the coach bay without any heating problems. I like expensive equipment like this to be secure as possible.
Roger

Roger2650 · 08-25-2015, 09:07 PM

boowho:
You should research the Hugh's autoformer, it will increase by a certain voltage or reduce to maintain the voltage within an exceptable range for your electronic equipment. It was recommended to me after I blew a microwave.
Have been very happy with it. I think I bought it through Amazon for 500.00, free shipping and no tax. Hugh's website sells them for around $565.00.
Roger

boowho · 08-25-2015, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger2650

boowho:
You should research the Hugh's autoformer, it will increase by a certain voltage or reduce to maintain the voltage within an exceptable range for your electronic equipment. It was recommended to me after I blew a microwave.
Have been very happy with it. I think I bought it through Amazon for 500.00, free shipping and no tax. Hugh's website sells them for around $565.00.
Roger

Thanks Roger for your thoughts. I believe that the only advantage of the Hughes unit is that will boost the voltage in low voltage situations. My EMS GUARDS against, but does not try to improve the situation if the voltage goes low for an extended period.

In other words, the EMS only SENSES a low voltage condition, whereas the Hughes unit will try to FIX It. Now, my EMS would cut out in a temporary low voltage (like maybe a few seconds or so) and then re-apply the voltage immediately..... but for an extended period the EMS would not be helpful.

However, in three years of full timing, I've never had a situation where the Hughes would have been helpful. If I ever did have an hour or two of lower voltage, I would just run my generator. If in a park with a permanent low voltage issues, I would just leave, and go somewhere else.

So, too me it just wouldn't be something I'd want to spend $500 on. Maybe $100, but even then I'd probably pass.

Unless you have money to burn an EMS only setup is MORE than sufficient and I already have the EMS; PLUS they can be bought for a good bit less than the autoformer.

These are my OPIINIONS...... YMMV. Best to go with what YOU are comfortable with since it's YOUR money.

Boowho??

davel1971 · 08-26-2015, 05:19 AM

not only does the EMS "sense" low or high voltage, it shuts down power to the camper when this happens, preventing damage. The minor inconvenience of a short power outage is still better than thousands worth of fried stuff

15berkxl · 08-26-2015, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boowho

Thanks Roger for your thoughts. I believe that the only advantage of the Hughes unit is that will boost the voltage in low voltage situations. My EMS GUARDS against, but does not try to improve the situation if the voltage goes low for an extended period.

In other words, the EMS only SENSES a low voltage condition, whereas the Hughes unit will try to FIX It. Now, my EMS would cut out in a temporary low voltage (like maybe a few seconds or so) and then re-apply the voltage immediately..... but for an extended period the EMS would not be helpful.

However, in three years of full timing, I've never had a situation where the Hughes would have been helpful. If I ever did have an hour or two of lower voltage, I would just run my generator. If in a park with a permanent low voltage issues, I would just leave, and go somewhere else.

So, too me it just wouldn't be something I'd want to spend $500 on. Maybe $100, but even then I'd probably pass.

Unless you have money to burn an EMS only setup is MORE than sufficient and I already have the EMS; PLUS they can be bought for a good bit less than the autoformer.

These are my OPIINIONS...... YMMV. Best to go with what YOU are comfortable with since it's YOUR money.

Boowho??

X2

Wayne

iceblaze580 · 08-26-2015, 07:34 AM

I run both auto former and progressive ems never has a problem

I-RV · 08-26-2015, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceblaze580

I run both auto former and progressive ems never has a problem

Yes, we all now know that is the Gold Standard, but as best explained in post #73, the AutoFormer isn't totally necessary as is the EMS.

gasman94 · 08-26-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger2650

davel1971:
Do you think the autoformer should be installed ahead of the EMS unit? The autoformer has surge protection also. I'm not sure it could handle either an open ground or open neutral. That is one of the questions I have for Hugh's. I'm thinking that the EMS should be used first to see weather any of the conditions exist, and if there isn't a problem, then the autoformer could be installed ahead of the EMS to maintain the voltage that the sensitive equipment require.
Thanks...........Roger

Hey Roger, did you email Hughes? I called them today and they said someone had emailed a question about whether an open neutral or open ground would harm the autoformer. I figured that it must be someone from this forum

Rich

Roger2650 · 08-26-2015, 12:22 PM

gasman94:
I just talked to Hugh's on the phone. They filled me in on the surge and spike protection. Here goes, 733 joules/ leg equaling 1466 joules surge and 4500 amps/ leg equaling 9000 amps spike. They told me that there is no open ground or open neutral protection. That being said, I would plug in the EMS first, to check for line problems and if there aren't any, I would plug in autoformer ahead of EMS to maintain power at an exceptiable level for the electronics. How does that sound?
Did you read boowho's post this morning? I just feel good about using both of them. I would hate to be on the road and fry my sensitive equipment. There is nothing worst then having to deal with problems on the coach.
Roger

Phil57 · 08-26-2015, 12:43 PM

I will not weigh in on what should come first(hasn't that argument been going on for a while I think it's the chicken) but I will say that Gasman's setup is the cleanest and most user friendly you will find on any MH. I always check the post with a MM anyway so no danger in putting the AF first as long as you check the post first. Anyway you do it it's great equipment to have

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