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Old 11-19-2017, 05:27 PM   #21
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OK..... just so everyone is on the same page.... I think we've got TWO issues going on here..... Silver's buddy is one.... Bama Bob is the other. And yes....we're talking different inverters. One with protection on the inverter... one not.

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:16 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Oscarvan View Post
OK..... just so everyone is on the same page.... I think we've got TWO issues going on here..... Silver's buddy is one.... Bama Bob is the other. And yes....we're talking different inverters. One with protection on the inverter... one not.

Correct me if I am wrong.
Silver's buddy is Bama Bob and his inverter does not have circuit protection on the output service based on the photo he sent.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:09 AM   #23
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I only find 3 gfi power drops. 1 in the bathroom and 2 in the breaker box under the bed. Thats it.
same here - and all 3 seem to reset OK.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:19 AM   #24
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Silver's buddy is Bama Bob and his inverter does not have circuit protection on the output service based on the photo he sent.
OK.... that makes things easier.

Read my post Bob. You're set up like I am. Please post a picture of the panel with the labels.

I don't think the outlets not working are GFI protected, MINE ARE NOT.

There is on my service panel a general outlet breaker.....this is the circuit you're after. Here's a picture of my panel (pre-mod, the one on the right). Since you have the third AC yours will be a little different. You can see it on the tandem breaker with the fridge. This is MY general outlet NON GFI protected circuit. (Bed, couch etc.) This is the one you're after. Either a wire has come loose, or the breaker went bad and is not resetting after you fried it with the space heater. The first step is to take the cover off and with a multi meter verify there's electricity going through this breaker......
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:38 AM   #25
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Silver, if you still need help, we have a 2018 XLT. Only had for about a month. I would be happy to try to help.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:30 PM   #26
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In a very interesting development, on another social platform someone reports losing the fridge, and then the bedroom outlets, with low voltage readings and then ARCING in the tandem breaker on the inverter side of his panel. The very spot where I suspect Bob's general outlet circuit is having problems.

In an attempt to put in a replacement breaker he was unable to put the tandem on the bar, and it appears the inverter side of his panel does not accept tandems. (There are prohibition tabs on tandem breakers which will only allow them to go in approved panels with narrower connectors.......This gets complicated, but should have been addressed during manufacture.) His is a 2014...... I'm on the road but as soon as I get home I'm going to take a hard look at my panel. As described above I too have a tandem for gen outlets/fridge on the inverter side of the box....

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:53 PM   #27
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Here is a picture of my circuit panel. Except for the main breakers and the GFi’s all appear to be tandem breakersClick image for larger version

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Old 11-25-2017, 08:32 PM   #28
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Indeed, cool. Wow, there's a lot of stuff on there. You definitely have to manage that load.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:07 PM   #29
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OK.... some answers and interesting facts.

Google CTL as it applies to electrical panels. "Circuit Total Limitation".

By the shape of the tabs on the bus bar in the panel it makes it so that none, or not all of the panel will accept a tandem breaker with a "rejector tab" which is what most of what's at Home Depot et al is.

It's designed to stop people from radically increasing the number of circuits on a panel by pulling singles and substituting tandems.

On our panels the INVERTER side of the panel, does not accept rejector tabs. So, what Forest River did for the "General Outlet" and "Fridge" on a lot of our coaches is use "NON CTL" tandem breakers. They are available. Sometimes at the store, definitely from the supply houses.

The panel above in the picture seems to be using a LOT of them.

Soooooo, I may have saved some of you a LOT of headache, including Bama Bob when he figures his tandem went bad (unless I am horribly wrong on that one).

If/when the tandem on the right side of the panel (the inverter side) fries you need to order a NON CTL breaker.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:12 PM   #30
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The two different breakers in question.

Sedond one is the tandem I got at the store installed on the high load side of my panel as part of my electric water heater mod. You can see the thin tab on the bus bar which slides into the breaker with the shiny metal rejector tab in it.

The top picture is the inverter side bus bar, with the the thicker "L" shaped tabs. The breaker with the rejector tab would NOT fit here. Shown is the "NON CTL" tandem breaker, which looks like any single breaker, without the rejector tab, that FR uses here.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:55 PM   #31
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OK.... and here's another piece of the puzzle. It appears to be a known electrician's shortcut to take a Dremel, or worse, a pair of needle nose pliers and yanking the tab out. It now appears that is what happened on the other Berk.

I am not saying it was the cause for it to fail, in fact I don't think so. I do find it pretty low standards and a poor reflection on Forest River.....

And yes, he got it new.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:36 PM   #32
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OK.... this is now turning into a SAFETY ALERT. As I mentioned, on the other BERK the breaker started arcing and undetected may well have caused a fire. (See pic above) Comparing that breaker to PROPER non CLT replacements it appears that a spring that clamps the contacts may also have been removed when the breaker was hacked to remove the rejection tabs.

ALSO.... another owner checked his breakers and found that FR had hacked the rejection tabs out of his.

These are 2014/2015 units.

My suggestion is that EVERYONE check, or has checked their tandem breakers installed on the inverter side of the panel.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:49 PM   #33
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No Fault light on the remote unfortunately. I show float charging on the remote and to clarify, the power loss was due to something tripping when we plugged a small electric heater into the bedroom outlet above the dresser (the one on the left). Something tripped and now we do not have power to:
  • Any outlet in the bedroom
  • The 2 outlets along the dinette super slide
  • The TV/Entertainment center (including the outlet where the HDMI Splitter and DirecTV Box live)



Now I DO have power to:
  • The Residential Refer
  • Convection Microwave
  • Induction Cooktop
  • Heated Floors
  • The Fireplace (which plugs in right below the entertainment center - go figure!)
  • Kitchen Outlets
  • Bathroom Outlets
  • All 3 A/C
  • The outlets on the Pilot & Copilot side of the cockpits
  • The outlet in the basement shelf below the Copilot's seat
[



I have tried a soft and hard reset of the inverter (the hard reset requires battery disconnect off, unplug from pedestal and wait 3 min)

I have reset all the breakers on the panel under the bed.

Checked the fuses in the basement on the pilot's side of the coach

Reset the kitchen GFI



I am just about at wits end - there has to be some hidden breaker or GFI that I am missing or some in-line fuse that has blown that I do not know the location.



Open to any suggestions!


Hi Bob
What was the outcome of your power issue? Has it been resolved? I hope it was an easy fix.
Keep us posted.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:27 AM   #34
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OK.... this is now turning into a SAFETY ALERT. As I mentioned, on the other BERK the breaker started arcing and undetected may well have caused a fire. (See pic above) Comparing that breaker to PROPER non CLT replacements it appears that a spring that clamps the contacts may also have been removed when the breaker was hacked to remove the rejection tabs.

ALSO.... another owner checked his breakers and found that FR had hacked the rejection tabs out of his.

These are 2014/2015 units.

My suggestion is that EVERYONE check, or has checked their tandem breakers installed on the inverter side of the panel.


Oscar do you have a website other than NHSTA.gov to see if this resulted in a recall or other?
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:18 PM   #35
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Nope, and I doubt there is or will be a recall. Berk owners are pretty well registered with the manufacturer. They know where to find us.

Also, it seems to be limited to certain years..... It could be something as crazy as one electrician that worked there at the time and did this nasty "trick".
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:30 AM   #36
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Hi Bob
What was the outcome of your power issue? Has it been resolved? I hope it was an easy fix.
Keep us posted.
Update (sortta)

We were going to drive to the dealer and set up for an appointment tomorrow.

It is raining cats and dogs! So We will be going to the dealer tomorrow morning - will update everyone once the problem has been identified
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:29 PM   #37
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Can't wait.....

I've said a LOT about the subject, so to restate my suspicion before you say anything you either:

1: Have a bad tandem breaker, the one with "General Outlets" on one side and "Fridge" on the other side......

2: Have a problem with the wiring going from that breaker to the outlets.

I do NOT believe there's any GFI's in that circuit. And, I do NOT believe the inverter/charger has anything to do with it.

But, I've been wrong before so there's possibly even "A third possibility we hadn't even counted upon"......

(And we was both immediately arrested..... handcuffed...... )
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:42 PM   #38
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Can't wait.....

I've said a LOT about the subject, so to restate my suspicion before you say anything you either:

1: Have a bad tandem breaker, the one with "General Outlets" on one side and "Fridge" on the other side......

2: Have a problem with the wiring going from that breaker to the outlets.

I do NOT believe there's any GFI's in that circuit. And, I do NOT believe the inverter/charger has anything to do with it.

But, I've been wrong before so there's possibly even "A third possibility we hadn't even counted upon"......

(And we was both immediately arrested..... handcuffed...... )
You get the Brass Ring Oscar.

It was a open ground, caused by - I hate to say it - poor factory wiring. Of the 7 receptacles, the techs found that 5 were wired poorly - overstrpped wires with the copper exposed, and the open ground receptacle the wire had popped out of the connecter.

The Master Technician at the Dealership told me that having that many receptacles in series without a GFI was asking for trouble, so they put a residential (20 AMP) GFI receptacle under the wardrobe, halfway down the series. This way if the circuit overloads, the GFI pops instead of the wiring. His advice to every Berk owner is to put a GFI receptacle somewhere in the series - the easiest place is like they did for us and replace the receptacle under the closet.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:37 AM   #39
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<<Takes a bow>>

BUT....and it's a BIG BUT...... I have to respectfully disagree with the "Master Tech"......

First off, a GFI does NOT protect against overload. It protects against Ground Faults, at which point it Interrupts. It measures for LOSS OF CURRENT TO GROUND in a circuit......and then it pops. It is mostly for protection in wet environments, which is why they are used in kitchens, bathrooms and outside. Water in contact with the circuit can cause a path through the human body to ground which can be hazardous or even lethal at much lower amperages than those that would pop the breaker.

Second, only outlets DOWNSTREAM of the GFI, if wired correctly, would be protected.

In residential construction the number of outlets on a general circuit is generally no more than 8-10. What you have is fine.

What he did is pretty much pointless and what he told you is BS.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:43 AM   #40
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<<Takes a bow>>

BUT....and it's a BIG BUT...... I have to respectfully disagree with the "Master Tech"......

First off, a GFI does NOT protect against overload. It protects against Ground Faults, at which point it Interrupts. It measures for LOSS OF CURRENT TO GROUND in a circuit......and then it pops. It is mostly for protection in wet environments, which is why they are used in kitchens, bathrooms and outside. Water in contact with the circuit can cause a path through the human body to ground which can be hazardous or even lethal at much lower amperages than those that would pop the breaker.

Second, only outlets DOWNSTREAM of the GFI, if wired correctly, would be protected.

In residential construction the number of outlets on a general circuit is generally no more than 8-10. What you have is fine.

What he did is pretty much pointless and what he told you is BS.
It measures loss of current to neutral- any current on ground makes it trip.
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