Cellular Antenna's for Camping

[robo44]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Like this antenna. Did you find the 16ft cables long enough though, or did you extend them at all? Both antennas I'm looking hard at come with a 30ft pair. My rig is almost 43ft long and am concerned I'm not going to have enough length to get the cable from the roof ladder at the back thru the dining table glide out which is just past the axles toward the front of the RV. Really don't want to extend the cables any longer than absolutely necessary.

Yes, depends on how far your entry point is into your RV.
My MiFi is located in the center of the rig on my FR3 so I just needed 25'

My rig is 34' all i needed was to buy a 25' cable, i ran it through junction i have for solar that is halfway from ladder to entry. 25' was more that enough.

Can you relocate the MiFi to another location? to ensure you dont come up short. Just a thought.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by robo44

Yes, depends on how far your entry point is into your RV.
My MiFi is located in the center of the rig on my FR3 so I just needed 25'

My rig is 34' all i needed was to buy a 25' cable, i ran it through junction i have for solar that is halfway from ladder to entry. 25' was more that enough.

Can you relocate the MiFi to another location? to ensure you dont come up short. Just a thought.

I have a bed glide out that's the closest entry point into the RV, but once inside, there's no good place to put the hotspot. Second closest glide out is the dining table and thought this would be the best place so it can sit on the table and it's just about centered in the RV. The living room is in the front and bedroom is in back, so the hotspot should be able to cover both areas effectively from the kitchen table if I can get the cable to make it there.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Sorry, I thought the Nighthawk MR1100 you mentioned in your earlier post was the new 5G model that they want the big bucks for. I'd expect that hotspot to out perform the 8800L every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Although they say it should work with carriers other than AT&T, there is no specific mention of Verizon support, so that'd be a show stopper for me. I wouldn't think it would matter which hotspot the Verizon SIM card goes into as long as it supports the bands Verizon service is on.

Also couldn't find in the item details on Amazon that this hotspot has TS9 ports. Nothing says I can't return the 8800L for an MR1100 if it will work with Verizon. Almost twice the cost, but I'll get one if its that much better than the 8800L.

Ok, so it looks like the Nighthawk MR1100 does have the TS9 ports, which is great. However, many folks have said it won't work with Verizon, so that's a deal killer for me. Really like what this hotspot offers, but at five times the price of what I paid for the 8800L, I'm not so confident it's going to give me that much higher performance to justify the $400 difference.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Sorry, I thought the Nighthawk MR1100 you mentioned in your earlier post was the new 5G model that they want the big bucks for. I'd expect that hotspot to out perform the 8800L every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Although they say it should work with carriers other than AT&T, there is no specific mention of Verizon support, so that'd be a show stopper for me. I wouldn't think it would matter which hotspot the Verizon SIM card goes into as long as it supports the bands Verizon service is on.

Also couldn't find in the item details on Amazon that this hotspot has TS9 ports. Nothing says I can't return the 8800L for an MR1100 if it will work with Verizon. Almost twice the cost, but I'll get one if its that much better than the 8800L.

The Nighthawk definitely has the dual TS-9 ports. The Nighthawk is produced by Netgear for AT&T but can be purchased via Amazon unlocked. Check closely. The 8800 is exclusive to Verizon and I’ve never seen one unlocked.

Nighthawk receives bands 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/14/29/30/46/48/66.
8800 receives bands 2/4/5/7/13/14/20/28/46/48/66,

Using a Verizon sim in the Nighthawk requires the little sim tray adapter thingy because the Nighthawk sim slot is sized to accept the three popular sim sizes.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

The Nighthawk definitely has the dual TS-9 ports. The Nighthawk is produced by Netgear for AT&T but can be purchased via Amazon unlocked. Check closely. The 8800 is exclusive to Verizon and I’ve never seen one unlocked.

Nighthawk receives bands 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/14/29/30/46/48/66.
8800 receives bands 2/4/5/7/13/14/20/28/46/48/66,

Using a Verizon sim in the Nighthawk requires the little sim tray adapter thingy because the Nighthawk sim slot is sized to accept the three popular sim sizes.

I found new, unlocked versions of the MR1100 for the ultra low price of $500.00. That's crazy expensive when you consider it's not a category 22 device that doesn't support 5G. I'll wait for the price of the 5G version of this hotspot to go down in the next two or three years and just upgrade the 8800L at that time.

Other than the Netgear Nighthawk, unfortunately there aren't any good, reasonably priced hotspot alternatives out there with external antenna support that work with Verizon.

[FarisWheels RV Journeys]

ere are reasons the MR 1100 (now old tech) and the MR 5100 are so expensive. For one their internal antennas without using the T9 ports are native 4x4 MIMO. Many people find that hooking up an external antenna to the 2 T9 ports actually reduces signal strength and speed because you effectively then turn it into a 2x2 MIMO product. There are numerous other reasons for its cost as well. However, you have a hotspot and you are asking about hooking an antenna up to it using the T9 ports. If you want to future proof it for a newer 5g modem in the future (Which I would not buy from the cellular carrier; there are too many good ones out there that have far better capabilities than the throwaways from the carriers); I would buy something like a Parsec 7 in 1 4x4 MIMO antenna that is a flat panel and omni-directional. It has proven to be outstanding. Even though it has way more wires than you need currently, you will have your future built in. All you will do is use SMA to T9 adapters on the first pair of cables. Which will give you 2x2 MIMO to your hotspot. With a carrier provided hotspot, never add length to the cables, the signal loss will be more than the gain. I also suggest that you move your hotspot to within 15 feet ( the length of the cables) to hook it up. If your rear ladder is too far away. Get suction cup mounts and an extendable flagpole to put right by your slide point of entry.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by FarisWheels RV Journeys

ere are reasons the MR 1100 (now old tech) and the MR 5100 are so expensive. For one their internal antennas without using the T9 ports are native 4x4 MIMO. Many people find that hooking up an external antenna to the 2 T9 ports actually reduces signal strength and speed because you effectively then turn it into a 2x2 MIMO product. There are numerous other reasons for its cost as well. However, you have a hotspot and you are asking about hooking an antenna up to it using the T9 ports. If you want to future proof it for a newer 5g modem in the future (Which I would not buy from the cellular carrier; there are too many good ones out there that have far better capabilities than the throwaways from the carriers); I would buy something like a Parsec 7 in 1 4x4 MIMO antenna that is a flat panel and omni-directional. It has proven to be outstanding. Even though it has way more wires than you need currently, you will have your future built in. All you will do is use SMA to T9 adapters on the first pair of cables. Which will give you 2x2 MIMO to your hotspot. With a carrier provided hotspot, never add length to the cables, the signal loss will be more than the gain. I also suggest that you move your hotspot to within 15 feet ( the length of the cables) to hook it up. If your rear ladder is too far away. Get suction cup mounts and an extendable flagpole to put right by your slide point of entry.

You're correct the MR1100 is very expensive and I too would expect there to be many reasons why I would pay more for it. But after examining its features and capabilities more closely, the only thing it does that the 8800L doesn't is allow 5 more connected devices, supports a few more 4GLTE bands, and has an Ethernet port. The 8800L features and capabilities are equal to (on paper), or in some cases better than the MR1100. It's a higher category device (18 versus 16) with higher "theoretical" download speeds, and also includes native 4 x 4 MIMO antennas. Please tell me I'm missing something else, but I can't justify paying that much more for an equivalent device. If I were to spend $500, I'd opt instead for the Nighthawk 5G MR5100 which has tons more capability and features than either of the other two.

You're also spot on correct about the connectivity differences between 4 x 4 and 2 x 2 MIMO antennas. It can, in certain circumstances, be more a hinderance than help to signal strength, and ultimately data speeds. Some of the places we've camped in the past had weak signals and, in some cases, sub-par Internet download performance. I'm pretty positive changing the antenna config from the internal 4 x 4 setup to a directional, or omni-directional amplified 2 x 2 MIMO mounted several feet above the roof of the RV will likely be much better than without.

I like your idea of the 7-in-1 external antennas and really didn't consider them too much. I think you're right to look into those harder as they'll probably provide most, if not all of what I want. I don't think I'd ever need the seven connections they offer. However, I'm pretty sure they have 5-in-1 models that can do the 2 x 2 with the 8800L now, 4 x 4 later with whatever 5G hotspot comes along in the next two or three years, and one for a GPS (which I'd probably never use). Really nice part I failed to consider is there's only one antenna to put up for all of it. Thank you for that recommendation!

I also gave hard consideration where to mount the antenna outside and considered the suction cup holders. I saw many folks reviews that they sent 'em back because they didn't stay attached to their RV's. I don't have smooth side walls like some higher end RV's and believe its just going to fall too. This is especially when we visit the Outer Banks of NC where its common in the summer to have 30MPH+ sustained winds with higher gusts. And, I don't want a PVC pole to attach that's too long to store in the bed of my truck or in the RV. Also don't want to punch any more holes in my roof than what's already there. Please let me know if you've got any additional ideas about this. Really appreciate all that you've said!

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

I found new, unlocked versions of the MR1100 for the ultra low price of $500.00. That's crazy expensive when you consider it's not a category 22 device that doesn't support 5G. I'll wait for the price of the 5G version of this hotspot to go down in the next two or three years and just upgrade the 8800L at that time.

Other than the Netgear Nighthawk, unfortunately there aren't any good, reasonably priced hotspot alternatives out there with external antenna support that work with Verizon.

I paid $300 in June 2020 just before the prices exploded due to folks wanting them for home schooling reasons. Just another example of people getting ripped off during….well, you know the reasons.

I am just not impressed with 5g at this time. It still needs a lot of development before I’ll spend extra just for 5g features. Xfinity recently gave me a free upgrade from 200 mbps to 500 mbps internet speed. I cannot see any improvement or change at all.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

I paid $300 in June 2020 just before the prices exploded due to folks wanting them for home schooling reasons. Just another example of people getting ripped off during….well, you know the reasons.

I am just not impressed with 5g at this time. It still needs a lot of development before I’ll spend extra just for 5g features. Xfinity recently gave me a free upgrade from 200 mbps to 500 mbps internet speed. I cannot see any improvement or change at all.

Yeah, really man, DON'T say it!

If it were still $300, that's a reasonable to me and would still consider it.

I think your sentiment "that don't impress me much" is what most of us that want good service are thinking. I too am just going to wait it out for some of the needed 5G gear to get cheaper and include more features and functionality.

[aircommuter]

I have had the best results with a log periodic and a Mofi router. On the camper I use an oval surveyors pole 25’. I also have that system at home mounted on a rooftop pole that supplied all my household items for years. The nearest tower is 18 miles and partially blocked by terrain and trees. The dual antenna is able to work the best in the fringe locations.
I got Starlink 2 months ago at home.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

I have had the best results with a log periodic and a Mofi router. On the camper I use an oval surveyors pole 25’. I also have that system at home mounted on a rooftop pole that supplied all my household items for years. The nearest tower is 18 miles and partially blocked by terrain and trees. The dual antenna is able to work the best in the fringe locations.
I got Starlink 2 months ago at home.

Not familiar with an oval surveyors pole, but is it telescopic that you can retract it from 25 feet? I considered a 15 to 20 foot long telescopic pole connected to a weighted umbrella base, but think it'll just retract on its own, once put up in high wind situations. I also thought of just using a 15 or 20 foot single PVC pipe to attach my antennas to, but it'd be a pain in the ash trying to find a place to store it when not in use.

The best solution I could come up with that was both stable and relatively easy to setup and break down is to mount my antenna on my RV rear ladder. Camco makes a flag pole holder that clamps to the roof ladder and has a pole holder with wing nut to hold the PVC pole in place. I was planning to cut a 7 or 8 foot PVC pipe to mount to this holder, and mount the antenna to the top of the pipe.

The only problem with this solution is the length of the antenna cables. Because it'd be located at the back of the RV, the cable from the antenna to the glide out in the center of the RV would be about 25 to 30 feet. The antenna comes with a 30 foot set of cables. I'm guessing I'd probably need another 8 to 10 foot extension cable to feed it thru the glide out to the table in that glide out. How long are your cables in your setup? What type of cables are you using, and are you seeing much signal loss with those cables?

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Not familiar with an oval surveyors pole, but is it telescopic that you can retract it from 25 feet? I considered a 15 to 20 foot long telescopic pole connected to a weighted umbrella base, but think it'll just retract on its own, once put up in high wind situations. I also thought of just using a 15 or 20 foot single PVC pipe to attach my antennas to, but it'd be a pain in the ash trying to find a place to store it when not in use.

The best solution I could come up with that was both stable and relatively easy to setup and break down is to mount my antenna on my RV rear ladder. Camco makes a flag pole holder that clamps to the roof ladder and has a pole holder with wing nut to hold the PVC pole in place. I was planning to cut a 7 or 8 foot PVC pipe to mount to this holder, and mount the antenna to the top of the pipe.

The only problem with this solution is the length of the antenna cables. Because it'd be located at the back of the RV, the cable from the antenna to the glide out in the center of the RV would be about 25 to 30 feet. The antenna comes with a 30 foot set of cables. I'm guessing I'd probably need another 8 to 10 foot extension cable to feed it thru the glide out to the table in that glide out. How long are your cables in your setup? What type of cables are you using, and are you seeing much signal loss with those cables?

I have 50’ cables, while I know there is some loss it us the best setup I have found.
Seco 98010 - SVR Series Rectangular-Oval Fiberglass Leveling Rod - 25' Length - FEET/10THS/100THS

[GPs37FLH]

Ok, so I've decided I'm getting a Pepwave Mobility 40G 5-in-1 omni-directional 4 x 4 MIMO antenna. This antenna can be ordered with SMA, QMA, or N-type connector ends. I'm opting for the SMA ends, unless someone can tell me if the N-type is better. Seeing several antennas now coming with the N-type connector ends, but not sure what advantage, if any, it provides.

I've also resolved myself to try to use a couple of TechnoRV suction cup flag pole mounts for this antenna attached to a PVC pipe. Bought two of 'em and going to mount them 3 feet apart for increased stability in windy conditions, and mounting them on the RV as close to the glide out as possible. Should be able to cut the extension cable length I'll need in half to minimize signal loss.

All this said, the Pepwave 40G only comes with 6.5 feet of cable with SMA male ends, so going to need 15 to 20 foot SMA female to SMA male extension cables to run thru the centrally located slide out. In researching cables, everyone says the LMR-400 coaxial cables are the best low loss cables to buy for extending the antenna's reach inside the RV. I realize they're thicker than regular cable TV coax, rigid and can be difficult to work with. Anyone using different cables that're easier to run into the RV that perform equally well?

As always, I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback on this!

[Phreak480]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Ok, so I've decided I'm getting a Pepwave Mobility 40G 5-in-1 omni-directional 4 x 4 MIMO antenna. This antenna can be ordered with SMA, QMA, or N-type connector ends. I'm opting for the SMA ends, unless someone can tell me if the N-type is better. Seeing several antennas now coming with the N-type connector ends, but not sure what advantage, if any, it provides.

I've also resolved myself to try to use a couple of TechnoRV suction cup flag pole mounts for this antenna attached to a PVC pipe. Bought two of 'em and going to mount them 3 feet apart for increased stability in windy conditions, and mounting them on the RV as close to the glide out as possible. Should be able to cut the extension cable length I'll need in half to minimize signal loss.

All this said, the Pepwave 40G only comes with 6.5 feet of cable with SMA male ends, so going to need 15 to 20 foot SMA female to SMA male extension cables to run thru the centrally located slide out. In researching cables, everyone says the LMR-400 coaxial cables are the best low loss cables to buy for extending the antenna's reach inside the RV. I realize they're thicker than regular cable TV coax, rigid and can be difficult to work with. Anyone using different cables that're easier to run into the RV that perform equally well?

As always, I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback on this!

N connectors are a nice low loss constant impedance connector and are weatherproof when used correctly.

LMR400 will have much lower signal loss than some of the other options, going with inferior cables can negate all the benefits you get from a good antenna.

Many folks will use lmr400 and n connectors and then use small pigtails for sma to N conversion at the modem end.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Phreak480

N connectors are a nice low loss constant impedance connector and are weatherproof when used correctly.

LMR400 will have much lower signal loss than some of the other options, going with inferior cables can negate all the benefits you get from a good antenna.

Many folks will use lmr400 and n connectors and then use small pigtails for sma to N conversion at the modem end.

Thank you, Phreak480! I did order the Pepwave with SMA connectors because they appear to be smaller in diameter than the N connectors. When I put the PVC pipe up on the mount with the antenna, I plan to route all five of the antenna wires into the pipe to protect the SMA connections from the outside elements. Figured it'd be easier to route four SMA ends than four N connector ends inside the PVC. I'll put a cap on the 8ft PVC pipe to keep water from getting inside from the top. The Pepwave only comes with 6.5 feet of cable, so the extension cable connection at the antenna end will be inside the PVC and protected.

[GPs37FLH]

After doing some checking on the extension cables I bought at the recommendation of the support staff of the online antenna retailer, they do not appear to be LMR-400, or equivalent cables. In fact, I can't determine to what spec they're made (HDF-195?), so I've asked them to find me a 15foot LMR-400, or equivalent.

Doing some independent searches, they're aren't many places to buy SMA male to SMA female LMR-400 cable. I am finding more availability of extension cables with these connectors that're either CNT-400, or S-LMR240, which appear to be low-loss alternatives. Not sure whether this will make that much of a difference in a 15foot cable run, or not. If anyone knows for sure, please post a comment.

[GPs37FLH]

....also forgot to mention in my previous post that most LMR-400, or equivalent cables that I'm finding with SMA to SMA connectors are 25feet, or longer, which I really don't need them to be that long. Not sure if its better to just buy the 25foot LMR-400, or equivalent cables that're ultra low loss, or grab the 15foot S-LMR240 low loss cables instead. Any advice on this?

[Phreak480]

If you do facebook, look up a group called lte 5g hacks. there might be someone there who can help you find what you want in cabling.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Phreak480

If you do facebook, look up a group called lte 5g hacks. there might be someone there who can help you find what you want in cabling.

Thank you for that info! I was going to ask you about that facebook group to join and find answers to my questions there. My ultimate goal is to keep the length of whichever cable I use to the shortest it can be to keep signal loss to an absolute minimum.

So, what happened with the online retailer I ordered the Pepwave 40G from is one of their support specialists recommended a LMR-195 cable with this setup. I should've known better before I placed the order for everything that the cables were too cheap to be LMR-400 or equivalent. The retailer also offers LMR-240 or LMR-400 extension cables, so cannot explain why they didn't recommend them.

After researching their cable offerings on my own, I found they either offer a 15ft LMR-240, or 25ft LMR-400 cable. My plan is to buy one, or the other. However, I don't know if the two are just about the same with respect to signal loss and performance, given the two length choices from this outfit.

[GPs37FLH]

Ok, I think I have the answers I need to buy the right antenna cables and thought I would post this for anyone else looking for the same info.

After doing a Google search, there're several online coax cable signal loss calculators that proved to be useful. Two of them I used are listed below and produced the same numbers per calculation.

Today I found a different source for antenna cables that have LMR-400 in 15ft lengths. Although a 15ft LMR-240 will reach the hotspot location inside the RV, I don't think a same length LMR-400 would reach as easy because it's thicker and not as easy to route. Never worked with this cable type before, but think an extra 5ft is in order to make sure it reaches without a lot of bending.

The Pepwave antenna to which these cables will be connected supports frequencies ranging from 600MHz to 6GHz. I realize Verizon will never have cellular bands running in most of these frequency ranges. However, this at least provides some metric in which to make a decision on the cable type and length to use (15ft LMR-240, or 20ft LMR-400).

At the lowest frequency (600MHz), a 20ft LMR-400 cable will have almost 32% less dB signal loss than a 15ft LMR-240 cable. At the highest frequency (6GHz), the same 20ft cable will have just over 28% less dB signal loss than its 15ft counterpart.

To me, that's a significant performance difference to justify paying the $30 to $40 upcharge for a pair of LMR-400 cables.


https://www.rfportal.app/calculations/cable-loss/


https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/